DNA Sequences Suggest 250 People Made Up Original Native American [closed]

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Has anyone read the article published on the University of Kansas website?

http://news.ku.edu/2018/04/27/dna-sequences-suggest-250-people-made-original-native-american-founding-population

In the mid-90s I took a couple month trip to Lake Baikal in Siberia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Baikal.  The native population there have insisted since the beginning of their oral history that they are the source for the original native American population.  Some preliminary DNA studies done several years ago indicated their claim may have some validity: https://naturalhistory.si.edu/arctic/html/peopling_siberia.htmlhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC384887/, https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129562-100-ancestry-of-first-americans-revealed-by-a-boys-genome/https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/ and https://www.livescience.com/41363-ancient-siberian-dna-native-americans.html–just to name a few.

By the way, the photos in the article do not match this particular Baikal tribe, nor do any of the tribes mentioned in the DNA & the Peopling of Siberia article.

 

 

closed with the note: It began to stray from our community genealogy concerns.
in The Tree House by Teresa Conant G2G6 Mach 5 (50.0k points)
closed by Teresa Conant
You are most welcome. I am an Encyclopedia of interesting but useless information.  I  have one of the most interesting libraries.

Only two fiction books, well 10 including various editions of the Bible,TeNACH Q'uran, Serah and Sunnah (later two are sayings an doings of Muhamamad, and his biography, the rest are genealogical research materials, archaeology, anthropology, science, and two books on math and algebra.

As a consequence my head is jampacked with lots of interesting but useless info.

As a footnote I learned that the real reason behind the TeaParty and revolution was not as taught in school. The Boston Tea Party was a revolt against a corporate monoply, the East India Tea Company.

And the common man of Virginia was not at all interested in the revolution, but had to be coerced through fear and propaganda. So the upper class, whose motivation was simply to be the nouveau royalty of Virginia, as they were not economically motivated as were the New Englanders, put together a ruse called the Committee for Public Safety, a model subsequently used, as well as the name, in the French and Bolshevik revolutions.

The propaganda was supplied via the printing press, and the likes of ThomasPaine's The Rights of Man, and Common Sense, but the propaganda backfired on the would be neo nobility of Virginia, because it raised Democratic expectations that contrasted with the designs of the Tidewater/Planter aristocracy.

Finally, and unwittingly, the final battle in the English Civil War that led to the beheading of Charles I, was in a large sense the American Civil War,as the two major actors were largely the descendants of Puritans who had settled in Massachussetts and their cousins the Parliamentarians who fled to same after the restoration of Charles II.

The Virginians, the leadership, were descendants of nobility and of the Cavaliers (Royalists, nobility) who fled to Virginia after the defeat of Charles I and his beheading.

The above is  serendipity or ancillary to the actual cause of the Civil War of 1861
Looks like we are soul sisters!  Please feel free to email me as often as you like.  I'll never stop being enthralled by your Encyclopedia. :))  Nothing more enchanting than an inquisitive mind.
Yesterday they announced possible findings 40,000 years in Catamarca, Argentina. The team has radiocarbon-dated human hair and got that date. The hair was found in a cave alongside extinct megafauna bones and stone tools. They sent the samples to the US to get DNA, and will announce their findings officially tomorrow. Article in English: https://infoglitz.com/argentinaeng/you-can-find-evidence-that-the-catamarca-puna-was-inhabited-40000-years-ago-el-ancasti/ (or search for Aschero Catamarca)

Yes. Yes!  and YES!!

I have had several amateur archeologist friends insist for decades they knew the date of the earliest native Americans had to be much, much older than the accepted "Clovis points." (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_point).  They told me everyone in the field knew it, but no one had the nerve to be the first to turn American archeology on its ear and suffer the blow-back. 

I'm more thrilled than you can imagine to read about the latest findings–and in South America, too!  I'll crack open my best bottle of wine to celebrate tonight.

Some of my anthro-friends are saying that if this is recognized it might mean that a lot of people who were reluctant to show older datings before might come out of the caves (pun intended?) :)
I certainly hope so!!  :D
I was going to make this post, but the computer froze up and I had to force a reboot.

The Siberianlandbrdige (Beringian) hypothesis for settlement of the America's is, within the community, holy writ, to be disputed at one's peril.

Looking at he following factors alone is enough to dispute the hypothesis.

 The vast distance and obstacles to migration, and survival, from the edge of the glacial maximum to the Amazonian jungles, Tiahuanco, Bolivia and Perus.  If nothing else there is the Darien Gap in Panama, which until modern times was uninhabited by native peoples.

The age of radio carbon dating of textiles and artifacts in the Guitarrero Cave in Peru: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6062471_Chronology_of_Guitarrero_Cave_Peru

 The further south one goes, (Peru and Chile are in mind) the more advanced the engineering and architecture. Including hydrauglic engineering.  And in particular Sacsayhuaman and Banddurriahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandurria,_Peru see also: ttp://www.ancientpages.com/2016/05/17/10-great-ancient-mysteries-of-peru/ and there is Tiwanaku and Puma Punka in Bolivia (a site that was obviously industrial, and constructed with so uniform and meticulous tolerance that they had to be machined

Moving north you encounter newer examples of advanced engineering, especially in Guatemala, Honduras and the YucatanPeninsula. However the further south,the more advanced the engineering.

The Aztec's were a tribe that was driven down from the north, possibly, because of climate changes. A hungry, more vital and needy peoples than the Maya who they displaced or replaced, they simply built their city upon the technology and  culture, of the peoples they replaced.

As regards the Aztec's it is theorized that they came from New Mexico (Chaco Canyon), Arizona ( driven out by a prolonged drought that occured about 900 years ago. There is also this of a spotty migration of Maya into Northern Georgia .https://www.rawstory.com/2011/12/1100-year-old-mayan-ruins-found-in-north-georgia/

When you arrive in North America, the most advanced engineering you can find is that of the "Mound" peoples of the Mississippi valley i.e. Cahokia and Poverty Point, LA.

The natives of North America were clustered along the Pacific, the Mississippi Valley and the East Coast. In that regard the Leni Lenape  or Delawares (means Grandfather people), left a written record of their peoples The Red Record https://www.amazon.com/Red-Record-David-McCutchen/dp/0895295253 . A book you will certainly enjoy.

It tells the story of meeting and defeating the Mound culture peoples, and arriving on the East Coast in time to see John Cabot arrive in Chesapeake Bay, (his 2nd Voyage in which he disappeared)

This book will intrigue you: Terra IncognitaThe naming of America: https://www.uhmc.sunysb.edu/surgery/broome.html  a compelling argument that it was named for Richard Amerike (ap Meric(a Welsh name anglicized to Amerike) who was a major financier of John Cabot's voyage.

Back to the population of the America's.  A fisherman in the Chesapeake bay pulled up Mammoth bones with a stone tool embedded, this stone tool is identical to the Solutrean cultures tools found in Spain and France,and otherSolutrean tools have been found in the area.

Then there is thee nigmatic remains and artifacts found near Cape Canaveral, the Windover bog people" and amazingly the finest example of textiles ever found in the ancient world, as tightly woven as a T shirt. http://spacecoastdaily.com/2017/03/windovers-ancient-bog-people-made-history/

But we are left with the Siberianlandbridge hypothesis as "the popular truth", mention of other possibilities are sub rosa, and ridiculed.

And why not, way too many professional reputations, credentials, jobs and incomes are dependent on the reigning paradigm.

You might have heard the cliche: Extradorinary Hypothesis require extraordinary evidence" supposedly first uttered by Carl Sagan, but actually said by Carl Popper.

Carl Popper when a young scientist trying to make his mark on the world, had the audacity to question the theory of mass gravity. Well his budding career came to a halt and he was ridiculued, because mass gravity underpine so much  of science, and a threat to it is perceived as a threat to the people who persue the occupation.

So Carl knelt on the proverbial hassock,  confessed eror and begged forgiveness, but in the fashion of Gallileo, who after likewise begging forgiveness said "yet it moves", said, "Extraordinary theories require extra ordinary evidence"

And in that regard I mention that the largest creature that can fly, under it'sown power, weighs 30 lbs, beyond that the earth'satmosphere is not thick enough for them to fly., yet the pterodactyl flew.

Jurasaic park may have been a blockbuster movie, and I adore Avatar so much I bought the DVD and watch it time and again.

But the idea that humans will grow to 10 feet in a reduced environment or that the Brontosaurus and Tyrannasours Rex could grow so large in the current gravitational field of earth flies in the face of known and established facts.

Bone density depends on stress, the more stress the thicker and bigger the bones. Ask a dentist, Pull a persons teeth and the jawbones shrink. NASA knows that there is bone loss in space because of reduced stress.

We could never colonize Mars, there isn't enough gravitational pull to hold water, much less atmosphere to the surface, and that raises the question of what happened to the water that was on Mars? I have an answer, but later, same thing with the moon which also once had water, as water still exists at the poles of the moon and Mars, not to mention subterranean water.

But children born on Mars, because of reduced gravity, could never visit earth except in special suits, and over time the new Martians would look like the"gray aliens" so much a part of |UFO lore, large heads, thin limbs and small statures.

Same with the Navi of Pandora, instead of being10ft tall they would be 4ft tall because of the reduced gravity hence reduced stress on their bones.

If gravity is not caused by mass (a circular argument: mass>gravity>mass>gravity, etc ad nauseum), then what causes it.

The answer is that it is a current force produced by a current process, which as the source of the process cools, results in a diminished force.

Where do we find such a process. Answer: in the earth's core is a miniature sun, that is losing power and cooling over time.
Thus the gravitational pull of the earth is steadily diminishing, and as a consequence living things on it are growing smaller over the aeons.

That the moon has a gravitational force means that the moon also has a miniature sun.  Asteroids do not have even a micro gravity.

If mass caused gravity, then liquid droplets and small objects would not float free in the space lab, they would be pulled towards a human body or the walls of space lab.

We recognize that the earth has an electro magnetic core, but stop short of adding gravity to that equation (although static electricity is  in itself evidence of a relationship between gravity and electricity) and the reason that we don't, is because thetheory of mass gravity proposed by Isaac Newton has become holy writ, and anyone who questions it is called a crank, a nut and if a scientist laughed out of the business and ruined.

As happened to Taylor/Wegener with their continental drift theory. They have since been "rehabilitated" after death, but sans acknowledgement. I believe the theory of plate tectonics appeared whole cloth, a new, as if continental drift never happened.

Discussing any of this with a "self styled" scientist, or someone fed the pablum of Junior and High school science will meet with guffaws and ridicule as well, but they will not and cannot answer or even debate the questions. Only attack the heretic.

Definitely, we share the same inquiring minds.  Terra Incognita was, indeed a book which intrigued me, as well as everything Karl Popper wrote.  Now I can also look forward to reading The Red Record.  Thanks again for your post and suggestions!

Ms Farrar brought up Wegener (at least) once before, and how he doesn't get credit for continental drift (an absolutely false assertion). She accuses others of blindly hewing to "orthodoxy" if their scientific research, findings or conclusions differ from her own learned ones.
You are using the strawman fallacy as a defense. Just had to point it out.

 

As regards the Taylor Wegener, My comments had nothing to do with them being given credit. It has to do with the FACT, that they were ridiculed by the "experts" for a theory which has since been proven, plate tectoncis..

 

And yes this there is indeed orthodoxy in science and penalties for those that confront and refute it, such as the Siberianlandbridge hypothesis.

Now what person who has invested so much time and money in a field of study, holds a job whose existence, not to mention income and prestige, are dependent on the orthodoxy that is the foundation of that study and job, will gladly sit by and allow it to be refuted.

 

And even if one doesn't have such a job or position, but instead went on to be an accountant after "learning the truth" in college or university, after so much hard work to sit idly by and have someone even suggest that they were fed untruths, or even unwittingly and innocently misled.

The reluctance to the acceptance of new informartion, and a new paradigm works across disciplines and all areas of human mental/emotional endeavor

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Interesting. I saw a great documentary once on discovery or a channel like that. It proposed there were at least 3 different populations that came to America. One was across the Barring land bridge of course. Second was a Polynesian influx into south america,(with a lot of evidence showing the differences between amerindian & the Incas etc.). & third was a European group they believed my have followed the Atlantic ice shelf all the way to north America. Evidence was a particular Clovis point found in Tennessee that was previously only found in a certain place in Europe. Plus it would explain the very European look of some of those tribes,(Cherokee, etc). D9nt know, but it was very interesting. Id like to find it again.
by Jesse Elliott G2G5 (5.1k points)
selected by Amanda Phillips

See note above about the discovery of the century to come out tomorrow: http://https://infoglitz.com/argentinaeng/you-can-find-evidence-that-the-catamarca-puna-was-inhabited-40000-years-ago-el-ancasti/.  Updates BIG time all you saw on Discovery Channel!

I forgot to mention the Parasco Skulls . Assuming it is mitochondrial the DNA hg U2e1.  https://hiddenincatours.com/dna-results-elongated-skulls-paracas-part-1-4-baby/

 

And this stating that the DNA   mid east and european http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/breaking-new-dna-testing-2000-year-old-elongated-paracas-skulls-changes-020914

The elongated skulls of Paracas in Peru caused a stir in 2014 when a geneticist that carried out preliminary DNA testing reported that they have mitochondrial DNA “with mutations unknown in any human, primate, or animal known so far”. Now a second round of DNA testing has been completed and the results are just as controversial – the skulls tested, which date back as far as 2,000 years, were shown to have European and Middle Eastern Origin. These surprising results change the known history about how the Americas were populated.

 

The DNA has been tested, but all the paper released to the public said was that it was not "alien" (outer space). 

 

 

And another heartfelt thanks for your most intriguing URLs!  What fun!!

Here's a URL for your edification. Brien Foester is generally considered a fraud, as is "ancient-origins.net" and "ancient-origins.org."

The relentless pop-up advertisements on those sites should give it away.

My prediction: there will be no anthropological revelations tomorrow. Certainly no DNA verifiable revelations.

People, can we get back to serious genetic genealogy?

Killjoy.
Sorry. To me veracity is job one.
So you are the recipient of "the truth"?
I think he probably just saw the "Space Alien" National Enquirer-esqe stories, and checked the reputation of the site. The site is clearly (IMO) intended to generate clicks instead of being a "science portal".  There may be some scientifically supportable information found there, but if so, you will be able to find it from better peer-reviewed sources.
The thought did cross my mind.  My first thought was "head binding" which has been done in more than one culture.  Thanks for your sobering input.
Guess it's time to close this thread and get back to genealogy!
Good call, Teresa, thanks! :)
Aw shucks, and here we were having fun side tripping down heresy lane, what with all of the ad hominems, strawmen and such.

 

Oh well back to the real serious business of family historical research.
+2 votes
Fascinating information. Thanks for sharing!
by

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