Did Sir Ellis Hicks exist?

Question

Helen Ford, are you out there? Or others familiar with researching English knights?

This Sir Ellis Hicks has been suggested (in various online trees, and at least one late 19th/early 20th century unsourced genealogy) as an ancestor of both early New England and Virginia Hicks settlers.

One published researcher, however, suggested he's a complete fabrication, but without much discussion.

Can we dig up more information about this man? I am hoping, in particular, to confirm or deny his being knighted around 1356. How can we find this out?

Thanks!

Comments

Umbarger,

When were these news articles printed? Depending on dates, they could be repeating the genealogies that started about 1803 perpetuating what we are clearly showing here as false.

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I'm reviewing Complete Baronetege: England Baronetcies 1611-1625 (pp 137-138)

About Sir William Hickes (contemporary to Sir Ellis Hickes and also heir of Witcombe, co.Gloucester), the book indicates that Sir William was imprisoned in 1649 and fined 1,000 pounds.  Certainly, he must have been aware of Sir Elias Hickes who was also in trouble with that same government.

But we have yet to figure out if/how they were related.

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Will of Richard Hyckes of Boston, Lincs 1533 - that's probably going to spell out the more significant Tortworth Hicks in that generation and give Robert Hicks' father.

It's in Lincoln wills, 1532-1534, edited by David Hickman. There are around 75 copies in various US libraries. I would get it at the Huntington Library but their access policies are notoriously illiberal.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/lincoln-wills-1532-1534/oclc/1001084600

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I know there is some discussion about Baptist Hicks (the viscount) not being related to the Hicks who arrived in the States on The Fortune, but I just had to add that I am a Hicks descendant, and my eldest uncle looks so similar to the portraits of Baptist Hicks that it is absolutely shocking.  Though the link hasn't been discovered yet, I am absolutely certain that this man is a relative.

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I looked him and some of his listed family members and I found him in what might be reliable places. I don't want to take the time to write out all the web-links. But, I can send them to you through email, at this moment. I can't be too sure if it is helpful or not. But, the question got me thinking.

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John Hicks of Tortworth, clothmaker

Genealogies in the Library of Congress: A Bibliography edited by Marion J. Kaminkow

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Genealogical and Personal Memoroirs Relating to the Families of The State Of Massachusetts' Vol. iv 1910

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Most, if not all, of the derivative sources aren't any good. The Ellis Hicks myth first appeared in print around 1790 and successive embellishments over the next 200 years didn't improve it any. It's just one long game of telephone.

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Debra, if you (or anyone else, for that matter) are interested in getting involved in this very complicated challenge, I request you read the compilation I've drafted that puts together all we've learned here.  We spent weeks and months working through this mess and it would be critical for anyone stepping into this to first see where we've come to so that we don't have to rehash former ground we'd already covered.  Thanks. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LRe15B0QdC5Z3z4acXqPRiamy1tto5vn7Svqckr8Qes/edit

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No, I am not interested in Hicks. I saw a post on my wikipage where someone was asking for information. I offered the tiny bit I could find, as I said, it might or might not be helpful.

I would rather direct my energies somewhere else.

I appreciate the "thanks", though. Heartwarming. Makes me fell appreciated.

Answer 1

In pursuit of more information about the possible father of Sir Ellis Hicks, who is identified multiple times as son of a London scrivener...

We know from above that in 1624, Mary, daughter of William Hickes, deceased, scrivener of London was married.

Found this in The Common Paper: Subscription to the Oath 1613-1618 (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-record-soc/vol4/pp54-62), suggesting that William Hicks, scrivener, was still alive in 1618:

In Rawl. D51 this entry is followed by the date 1616 and this note: Memorandum That the Charter or Letters Patents granted by King James dated the 28th day of January in the 14th Year of his Reigne over England France & Ireland & of Scotland the 50th Whereby the Company is incorporated by the name or title of Master Wardens and Assistants of the Society of Writers of the Citty of London doth here take place, being named therein for Master & Wardens The Master & those Wardens last before named and for Assistants these following. (Vizt): John Mayle, esq., Thomas Chapman, George Samwell, Thomas Fitch, Andrew Turnor, Edward Ledsham, John Partridge, Robert Banckworth, Jeffery Place, Henry Best, Robert Hill, Robert Morgan, Peter Blower, Edward White, William Hicks, Godfrey Reynor, George Hill, James Colebrond, Charles Bostock, Francis Strange, John Hallywell, Richard Wotton, William Childe, John Woodward.

Comments

There is evidence of another daughter of William Hicks, scrivener of London: Abigail Hicks m. Humphrey Bedingfield of Wighton and was mother of Daniel Bedingfield. Source: http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1690-1715/member/bedingfield-daniel-1636-1704

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Boyd has notes William Hicks that include the two daughters - he has a PCC will, but I'm not interested enough to pay $5 for it. There's another will that mentions William, a daughter Mrs. Fisher, and other children. It sounds like a reasonably large family.http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-128_ff_221-3.pdf

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Ancestry has the will image, if anybody wants to get it. Since he was a scrivener, it's pretty certain that he would list Ellis if Eliis really was his son. Wills were their bread and butter.

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=5111&h=936495&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=tHt99&_phstart=successSource

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Are you saying Williams will doesn't mention Ellis? If so there must have been another _____ Hicks, scrivener, in London, yes?

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No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it costs either ~$5 to get an image of it from the National Archives or it takes an Ancestry.com World subscription (or a regular UK subscription) to read it; therefore, I have not read it. Given the weight of the other sources though, I'm pretty sure this is the right scrivener.

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Since William was a scrivener, he probably knew testamentary law inside and out. He wouldn't have risked omitting an heir in his will, so Ellis' presence or absence would be decisive. However, since I found Ellis' christening already, his will, and his sister's genealogy that says her father was William, I don't really have much doubt that William was Ellis' father. His sisters' husbands pop up in chancery suits a lot too - that's a very usual pattern, and he got sued a lot. Chancery mainly handled inheritance cases, so a lot of times, all you need to see is the plaintiffs and defendants to know what it's about.

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Hi Jillaine, I can view the will, though I'm on a phone so its a bit hard. He mentions sons Randolph, Elias, William and Adam.
He mentions land/property in the City of London, Middlesex , Stamford in Lincolnshire , Oundle  and Tansor (Northamptonshire) His father in law Ellis Jones from whom he purhased land in Fenn Stanton , Huntingdonshire.
Theres a lot more including several daughters.I'll have a look at it on a computer and get back to you.
One thing, his son Adam appears to have lots of children baptised at Tansor.

edit, other son Samuel, daughters Alice Jackson, Elizabeth Ketewich (? think that is the surname), Mary, Susan, Ann, Abigail and Margaret.

brothers Thomas and  Robert Hicks,  cosen Gill,  cosen William Donhalt, Aunt Proby.

He is very well off, daughters get £1000 each. As well as land and properties in several counties he has stock in the East India Company and in Virginia.

(horrible will to transcribe as full of contractions. Lots of question marks and undoubtedly errors but it is here https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Will_of_William_Hicks_or_Hickes%2C_Scrivener_of_London_1622

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Helen you rock.

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Helen, Ben mentions the availability of the 1679 will of Ellis/Elias Hicks.  Can you check for that, please? Thank you.

I've come down with a horrendous head Cold/throat/fever thing but will attempt to flesh out a family grouping based on these.

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Thanks Helen - yeah, this is definitely the same family as the Witcombe Hicks, I'll bet that they branch off at Thomas Hicks of Bristow, the grandfather of Sir Michael and Sir Baptist. The daughter Elizabeth married a Ketterick/Ketteridge/Ketherick - they show up in a bunch of chancery suits.

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Adam Hicks (perhaps son of William the scrivener) had his own grant of arms, https://books.google.com/books?id=h6wKAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA381&ots=28ealpg47v&dq=%22adam%20hickes%22%20visitation&pg=PA381#v=onepage&q=%22adam%20hickes%22%20visitation&f=false
It's full of fleurs de lis. It looks to me like he put a mark of cadency in it, a martlet, which would indicate a 4th son, consistent with the will. I would say this indicates the fleur de lis story was current in the 17th century.

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1625 chancery suit in Waalt - http://www.uh.edu/waalt/index.php/C78_1625

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Cotswold transcribes the 1557 will of Robert Hicks, and it shows that there must be some significant mistakes on p. 80 of the Visitation of Gloucs. He clearly says his mother was named Margaret and gives a brother Richard. From the terms of the will, it looks like Richard was the only family aside from his sons that was immediate enough to be a significant inheritor-if Richard's line failed, it was all to go to charity. He also mentions cousins Christopher Hicks and Richard Hicks of Cromwell. This brother Richard looks like a pretty good candidate for the father or grandfather of William the scrivener, since it looks like Robert and Richard must have been fairly close.

 

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Clearly a relative - Will of Adam Hickes, Yeoman of Tansor, Northamptonshire, 1611

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D902553

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The Visitations are a mess.  There's no clean datable copy.  Cooke did the 1583 Visitation and as usual didn't leave an office copy.

Vincent had a copy, probably added to it, left it to his son, who sold it.  It ended up at the College, but not as an official record.

A John Saunders had a copy, in his own writing, and added a lot to it himself, in the same writing.

Mundy had a copy, and added to it, then lent it to Phillpot who did the 1623 Visitation by updating it.

So the "evidence" gets all mixed up with the guesses and supposings of the heralds and arms painters.

Anyway, it seems there was a pedigree of the Tortworth Hickses.  Perhaps from 1583, updated to 1603, but no later.  Or maybe it was Mundy's.

It looks dodgy to start with, because the 1st John died 2 Hen 7 1486-7, and the 2nd John died 60 years later 38 Hen VIII 1546-7 leaving very young children.

The IPM from 1546 says John age 3 was the heir, so Thomas was a younger brother, born about 1545.

Then by 1623 Sir William Hicks Bart has become a Gloucestershire man and gives his pedigree, going back to his grandfather Robert.

So somebody thinks, Hicks, Hicks, the name's the same, and tries to join up the pedigrees.  But Robert was having his own kids in the 1540s, so the dotted line they've put in doesn't work.  It makes Michael older than his grandfather.

Most likely the dotted line is only in one of the manuscripts collated.

Playfair starts with a John d 7 Hen 7 (1491-2), but this could be the Visitation John with the date slightly garbled.  Evidently he noticed the problems, but he thought he had the fixes.  Rudder says the 2nd John (d 1546) was the son of a Thomas, so he can slip in an extra generation.

Then he has the "lawsuit" from the baronetage.  Time of Edward VI, 1547-53.  Probably just a sale.  Robert's will says he had Berkeley property and this is him buying a house there from a Thomas Hicks.  But Collins, or Wotton, only supposes that they're brothers, so it doesn't say so.  And nothing seems to say that this is Thomas Hicks of Tortworth.

Making this Thomas the same as Thomas of Tortworth means he's still alive at the time of his son's IPM, but there's no hint of that.

Making Robert the brother of Thomas Hicks of Tortworth means his sons are born at the same time as his brother's grandsons.  And making him the son of John I means Robert's mother survives her husband by 65 or 70 years, as she's still living in 1557.

None of this is totally impossible, but then again, there's no actual evidence that any of these equations has to be right.  Even if we assume the ironmonger came from Gloucestershire, there's nothing to link him with Tortworth except a bogus dotted line.

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Tansor is about 2 miles from Oundle.  But nowhere near East Haddon.

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Wow, Adam's son Thomas is an old buddy of mine.

"The Rose Plantaines grow with vs in gardens; and the sixth with spokie tufts groweth some places in the Isle of Tenet, where I, being in company with Mr. Thomas Hickes, M'. Leonard Buckner, and other London Apothecaries, Anno 1632." John Gerard The Herbal Or General History of Plants (1633)

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Robert Hicks only held the manor in East Haddon for a fairly short time, though long enough to show that his wife was named Dorothy.
http://somerset-cat.swheritage.org.uk/records/DD/SF/2/113/8

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There's a 1741 genealogy of this family, which appears to be much more firmly grounded in reality. It makes no mention of the knight legend, though it notes that "This family is descended originally out of the county of Gloucester where some of them have been anciently seated, tho' they bear different arms." It goes on to describe a lawsuit between Thomas Hicks and wife Margaret (Atwood) Hicks and Robert Hicks, our mercer of Cheapside. The author supposes that they were brothers, but it's possible that Thomas was actually his father, since the will names a Margaret Hicks as his mother. Father-son suits were unusual, but I've seen it before on occasion.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ciwUAAAAQAAJ&lpg=PA341&ots=U8CLDZQgNK&dq=%22robert%20hickes%22%20dorothy&pg=PA341#v=onepage&q=%22robert%20hickes%22%20dorothy&f=false

Also

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D2455%2F5%2F1%2F1%2F2

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There is a will of Richard Hyckes, mercer of Boston in the Lincoln Consistory Court dated around 1533 that clearly mentions these Gloucester Hicks. It's referred to in this book https://www.scribd.com/document/374826674/burns-jane-medieval-fabrications-dress-textiles-cloth-work

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And yet another relative's will Edward Overy PROB 11/137, ff. 268-9 - lots of brushes with Shakespeare's circle, http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-137_ff_268-9.pdf

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Mid 1530s Gloucester chancery suit, Thomas s.o. Robert Hyckes v. Futer and Hase. The catalog entry may be a little confused, but it seems to involve the will of a Thomas Hyckes the executors of a Dr. Futer/Fewter.https://archive.org/stream/listofearlychanc851newy#page/79/mode/1up

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OK, here we go. Scrivener's Co. oaths (apparently dated between 1591 and 1595):

William Hix, s. of Adam Hix of Tansor, co. Northants., yeoman, app. to Edward Henson, dec'd [1573]

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-record-soc/vol4/pp20-49

So William Hicks was the son of one of the Adam Hicks of Tansor.

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The London visitation says that Adam Hicks married Alice Henson of Tansworth (Tansor), which is the same surname as William's master (apprenticing with an uncle was pretty common), so I'd say this Adam Hicks in the visitation is probably William's father, which would make sense since it also has a son Robert (known elsewhere) and a son Thomas who lived in 1634. This is also where the "Prothesia" name comes into the family. The will would probably confirm this.

https://archive.org/stream/visitationoflond01stge#page/381/mode/1up/search/hickes

Ahh, the mark of cadency is for Thomas as the 4th son of Adam Hicks. Makes sense.

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Miraculously, Ancestry let me see the first page of Adam Hickes' will for free (but not the 2nd), so I can confirm that this looks like Adam the father of William et al. We have

• William Bellamye, son in law
• Edward Hickes, son (property held of Mr. Askanins? Norwich and in Perior? Northants.)
• Robert Hickes, son
• John Hickes, son
• William Hickes, son (got property in Stamford, Lincs. and Tansor, Northants.)
• Thomas Hickes, son
• Margery Overell or Everell, widowed daughter
• Christopher Allsopp of Nassington, Northants., dec., debtor
• William Bellamye and Margaret his wife (maybe grandson?)

It's a fairly complex will, and it has a lot of payment structures intended to divide the value of the estate without having to alienate any of the property (very medieval). Unfortunately, I don't know what's on page 2.

Margery Everell is apparently of Warmington, Northants., d. 1638 https://books.google.com/books?id=r0c48X3LKxUC&pg=PA27#v=onepage&f=false

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Is this the 1611 will you found earlier ?

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All a bit rushed, Ben could you check and  edit the part of Adam's will that you can see? (there is one part that I really couldn't work out; all I could think of was that Margery was being left  furze which was used for fuel and feed )

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Will_of_Adam_Hickes%2C_Yeoman_of_Tansor%2C_Northamptonshire_1611

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Will_of_Randall_Hickes%2C_Gentleman_of_Saint_Ives%2C_Huntingdonshire_1628

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Will_of_Sir_Elias_Hicks_of_The_Wyld%2C_Hertfordshire%2C_1679

I've put all the baptisms from St Martin ( Ludgate ,City of London onto the bottom of William Hickes' Will.

William's wife was an Elizabeth and she died in February of 1621/2 . The first child baptised (who presumably died but I didn't find a burial) was a daughter called Eles in 1597

(now back to the 1834 poor law and it's consequences!)

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No rush - they've all been dead for 400 years, so they're not going anywhere. Thanks much!

Yeah, that's Adam Hickes who died in 1611.

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Wonder if this is coincidence
Robert HICKS
Alias: Robert HIXE
Matric. sizar from PETERHOUSE, Michs. 1552;
B.A. 1556/7 ;
M.A. from Corpus Christi, 1560 .
Fellow of Corpus Christi, 1558 .
Received the tonsure (London) 1557 .
For some time minister at Fotheringay, Northamptonshire .
R. of Tansor [ Northamptonshire ], 1576-1601 .
Will, P.C.C.
( Bridges, II. 475; H. I.

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It seems very likely that this is the link back to the Gloucs. Hicks. This isn't the first time I've seen a churchman haul a couple relatives along to his benefice.  Rev. Robert apparently was born around 1535 so he sounds more like Adam's brother than his father. D. Skinner, "Music and the Reformation in the Collegiate Church of St Mary and All Saints, Fotheringhay," in ''The Late Medieval English College and Its Context,'' Clive Burgess, Martin Heal, eds., Boydell & Brewer Ltd, 2008, p. 253 did some research on him.

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Rev. Robert Hicke[s]' 1601 will seems to give short shrift to his relatives, and I suspect it's because of a note at the end that says "Creditt due to the testator, Adam Hicke owethe him five poundes".
The only other Hicks mentioned that I saw are a godson Robert Hicke (first legatee) and servant John Hicke. Lots of Hensons mentioned (Adam's wife's family). Also notable, it's a holographic will.

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For what it's worth, someone on Ancestry.com has Adam's parents as William Hickes (d. 1547) and Katherine Diccon (which is a name in Rev. Robert's will) but they also have Alice's name as "Hewson" rather than Henson. There must be another will, since that sounds like a misreading. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/40302765/person/28063070195/facts

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Aha, some key evidence has been misindexed by Ancestry under "William Nyx" of Tansor. Will of William Hix or Hyx, Yeoman of Tansor, Northamptonshire (1580), PROB 11/62/481. this is the goldmine of wills: the (sort of) son-less cousin who disperses his estate to relatives hither and yon. I'll have to look it over more later, but it has among others:

William Hyx, son of his "cosin" Adam Hyx, and Margery Hyx daughter of his cousin William Hyx. Brother John Hyx, brother John Norton of Cotherstocke, Johan Henson and Alice Henson daughters of sister Suzan Henson. AND "William Burdett the sonne of Johann Burdett likewise supposed to be my sonne". Brethren Robert Hyx and John Norton, daughter Margerie Hukcor[?]

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There's another relevant will, Robert Hyx of Tansor prob. 1537, 1st series, Book E, folio 263, Archdeaconry Court of Northampton: Wills, Administrations and inventories, and accounts
Sometimes indexed as "Robert Hye" - I'd imagine this one would take some work to get.

I gotta say, the Northants court is full of wills for this Tansor Hicks family, but half of them are indexed under mistranscribed names like Hye and Hype.

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A calendar of wills relating to the counties of Northampton and Rutland : proved in the court of the archdeacon of Northampton

Book I - 1545-48

Hyx, John Tansor 267

Hyx, William Tansor 246

Hyx, John Tansor 247

Book F - 1537-40

"Hype", Agnes Tansor

 

Also several Goodyears and Diccons in Tansor. I think someone researching this line could probably find enough to run it back to 1500.

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This is all so exciting and one of the most enjoyable wikitree collaborations I've experienced.

I see that the profiles of Ellis and some of his siblings and his father and grandfather are starting to get fleshed out. It would be awesome to continue reflecting the recent probate findings and ultimately link this line to the Gloucestershire line.

Of course we still haven't identified the origins of the PGM emigrants Robert and Thomas (or their relationship to each other) -- where I entered this fray originally -- but I've got to think they tie in somewhere!

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Everything known about the immigrant is supposed to be in here

https://archive.org/details/moorealliedfamil00defo

 

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Robert Hickes of East Haddon esq gets a mention

https://archive.org/stream/HistoryAndAntiquitiesOfTheCountyOfNorthamptonBakerVol1/History%20and%20Antiquities%20of%20the%20County%20of%20Northampton%20-%20Baker%20Vol%201#page/n163/

but no pedigree.

 

Answer 2

https://archive.org/stream/knightsofengland02shawuoft#page/n18/

1355 Nov 3 And many others were promoted to the knightly order.

Probably all the record that was kept.

 

 

Comments

This is great RJ. There is no Hicks listed among those knighted by the Black Prince. But there is a line in Latin-- does anyone know what it translates to ?

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And several others were to be promoted to military orders? something like that.

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Promoted to military orders isn't the same as being knighted though is it?

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Yeah, just "and many others were promoted to a military order [singular]", which does mean (mostly) knighthoods.

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It also says other knights were created along with Jankyn and certain others with Gilot, in October.

A lot of families must have had a story about an obscure ancestor who was knighted on a battlefield.

But it was all strictly honorary.  They weren't about to start a career in public service, which presumably they still couldn't afford.

Burke's had a more elaborate version by 1830

https://books.google.com/books?id=-1pIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA381

I expect it happened - to somebody else.  Families that didn't have their own stories adopted other people's and changed the names.

 

 

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The whole thing about the family originating in Gloucestershire does sound like a just-so story, but the surname distribution supports the idea. There's a very strong concentration around Gloucestershire and diffusing outward.

The fact that two different branches used the 3 fleurs de lis device tells us something, but I'm not sure what. It would probably be informative to dig up the original grants, if someone were sufficiently motivated to figure it out.

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These are the only grants listed by Jewers.

https://archive.org/stream/genealogist1719selb#page/n579/

 

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Interesting that both the original grants were by Londoners in the early 17th century. Since there aren't any earlier Hicks grants, I guess we can conclude that the Edward III story is probably mythological, but that it was probably going around among the gentlemen Hicks living in London at the time. It's not unlikely that the Tansor Hicks and the Tortworth Hicks had encountered each other and brewed up some kind of tale about a common ancestor. This must be why Sir Ellis' portrait ended up in the Tortworth line's collection-they were probably happy to claim a daring war hero as a distant relation. I still think they're branches of the same Hicks line, but the MRCA has to be at least 3 generations back from Sir Ellis.

Answer 3

Okay, I can't quite translate ALL of the above evidence into a tree, yet but here's what i've got so far:

1. Adam Hicks (d 1611) m. Alice Henson of Tansworth; she was still living at the time of his will. Adam had (unclear if Alice is mother of all of these (order uncertain):
   1. Margaret Hickes m. William Bellamye
   2. Edward Hickes
   3. Robert Hickes
   4. John Hickes
   5. Thomas Hickes
   6. Margery Hickes m. _____ Everell (I don't like how close Margery is to Margaret in name)
   7. Elizabeth Hickes m. ?Christopher? Alsopp who was deceased by 1611.
   8. William Hickes d. 1622; m. _____ Jones?, daughter of Ellis Jones? Issue (unclear if all by same wife; order uncertain):
      1. Randolph Hickes chr. St. Martins Gate 13 mar 1598; bur 7 Jul 1628 (conflicts with 22 Oct 1628 will); m. St. Swythian London, Alice Brown (who survived him) 
         1. At least two children (plural "children" in 1628 will)
      2. Elizabeth Hickes m. Thomas Ketterich (var. spellings)
      3. Samuel Hickes
      4. Sir Ellis/Elias Hickes, chr St. Martins Ludgate 29? Apr 1600; d about 1679 when he wrote his will. No evidence of marriage or offspring
      5. Susannah Hickes; ch 1611 St Martins Ludgate; m Robert? or Harry? Coningsby. Children included (may have been others?):
         1. Susan Coningsby
         2. John Coningsby
         3. ? Harry Coningsby
      6. Alice Hickes m Nicholas Jackson
      7. Maria Hickes, "[of] St. Martin, Ludgate, London, spinster, daughter of William Hicks, scrivener, deceased, consent of her uncle and guardian Robert Hicks of East Haddon, co. Northampton, gent."; m 2 Apr 1624 at St. Michael, Cornhill, London George Blincoe, esq. Middle Temple...
      8. Ann Hickes
      9. Abigail Hickes; m Humphrey Bedingfield of Wighton
      10. Margaret Hickes
      11. Adam Hicks
      12. William Hicks Jr.

Comments

Apparently Abigail was sold to a goldsmith.  Twice her age, but probably rich

https://archive.org/stream/londonmarriageli00fost#page/n83/

 

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Mary's marriage

https://archive.org/stream/londonmarriageli00fost#page/n100/

 

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Randall uttered will 1 July, buried 7, probate granted Oct.Looks as if he was staying with brother Samuel when he died.Not sure if it is same Randall that married Alice Brown though his wife was an Alice.
Elizabeth was the wife of William of Ludgate dying a few months before husband.

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There are probably two different William Bellamys in the will.

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And i tracked down a really  bad quality image of the supposed portrait and added it to the profile.


Would be great to find a closer original.


https://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/Hicks-732

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Strictly we don't know it's him.  It wasn't said to be him, it was said to be the legendary Sir Ellis.

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But is this the portrait that was hanging in Whitcombe (sp?) in the early 1800s? Is this the portrait that Ben Buckner says he saw, and that it was clear to him that this was 17th century armor?

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(I've also added a clarifying comment on the image page.)

Answer 4

Well it's no surprise to find the Yorkshire Hicks pedigree isn't too robust either.

Evidently Thoresby got his info from the Leeds branch, who said their ancestors had been lords of Nunnington, though he seems tactfully sceptical.  VCH knows nothing about that.  Stewards or yeomen of Nunnington maybe.

Then a Fowler Hicks of no great ancestry buys "Silton Hall" and hooks himself up to Thoresby's pedigree by surgically removing the Dean of Worcester's brother and transplanting in his own grandfather.

Then he adopts the arms of the baronets and claims that their line is a branch of the "lords" of Nunnington.

Answer 5

If any of you great folks want to help with this Hicks related challenge, I'd appreciate it:

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/481229/what-do-we-know-about-james-hicks-and-phoebe-allen

These have been the purported parents of both PGM emigrants Robert and Thomas Hicks. 

Thanks. 

Comments

We can certainly say that James and Phoebe weren't half-sibs, and the standard version shows Mary Everard as James's mother not his wife's.

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The Tansor Hicks don't sound the least bit Puritan to me. I'm pretty sure Sir Ellis was Catholic, absolutely a Royalist, and his brother Thomas was an associate of a suspected Papist. These were not enthusiasts of the Reformation.

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Thanks Ben. James Hicks has been -- rightly or wrongly -- associated with the Gloucestershire branch.

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For some reason, I can believe Sir Baptist Hicks as a Puritan.

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FindMyPast has around 30 Thomas Hicks, Hickes, Hix, and Hyx baptized between 1570 and 1590, which means there were probably something like 50 of them. It's not quite a needle in a haystack, but it doesn't sound promising.

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But no Baptist Hickses.

The traditional ancestry of "Fortune" Hicks says James was the son of a Baptist Hicks, who was the cousin of the other one.

If there's any trace of the existence of this other Baptist then obviously it would point to a connection with Robert the ironmonger.

FindMyPast has references to a Baptist Hicks dated 1542 and 1562, in Boyd's Inhabitants of London.  But they could be just Boyd footnoting that Robert was the father of Sir Baptist.  Need a subscriber.

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From Boyds  Inhabitants of London ( question marks in square brackets are mine, those without brackets are on original) 

The format is a family sheet for each person.  There is a page opposite which seems to be left for details from wills, He hasn't filled this in for either of these pages but has for Baptist's father in Law Richard Mayes

But these are all for the famous one, not his 'cousin' (so not any help sorry)

 

Hix Robert 1542  

14715

Robert Hicks of  S Pancras Soper Lane

Wife ? Julian Arthur of Clapton Som

Died 1592

Daughter of William Arthur

Profession citizen and ironmonger , mercer of the White Bear Cheapside, Arms Gen[?]17/280

Died 1557

Will 1557 PCC Nooales

Children

Michael bapt 1543 Oct 21

Francis 1544 Jan 29

?Hilary s 1545 Jan 14 bur 1548 Jul 14 ? Henry

?John bur 1548 Mch 17

Clement died 1627

Baptist mar Elizabeth May 15517

Mary

Burkes Peerage “St Aldwyn”

Record set          Boyd's Inhabitants Of London & Family Units 1200-1946

Hix Sir Baptist 

15517

Name Sir Baptist Hicks of St Mary Magdalen Milk St

Father Robert Hicks of S Pancras Soper Lane 14715

Mother Julia_ Arthur of Clapham

daughter of William Arthur

Wife Elisabeth Mayes of All Hallows Bread Street

Daughter of Richatd May MT 1562 and Mary Hillarron 838

Profession citizen & mercer alderman 1611,1638 rent £40 Lady Cam__ in S Lawrence Jewry

Died 1629 Oct 18

Will 1629 PCC 101 Ridley

Children

Juliana bap 1586 Jul 31 marr Edward Noel

Mary  bap 1587 Feb 11 marr 1 Sir Charles [Morrison?] 2 Sr John Cooper

Arthur bap 1590 Oct 4

Elisabeth bap 1592 Sep 24 bur 1599 Sep 7

Baptist bap 1594 Feb 9 bur 1599 Oct 11

Arthur burr 1586 Aug 28  [transc note, it looks more like 86 than 96 but cannot  be certain]

Burkes [Est B__]

Citizens and their [rulers?] p197 Vis Rutland 1681 p2 Staffs Ped p 175 [Noel]

There is another page on Richard Mayes , the father of Baptist's wife Elizabeth 

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Many thanks.  I'll be surprised if Cousin Baptist materializes, but these stones can't be left unturned.

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I wouldn't start out with Baptist Hicks, James Hicks etc. Start with the Hicks that were actually in New England, Robert Hicks and Thomas Hicks. The chances that either of them are descended from undocumented scions of a family with two knights are... remote.

I think I buy the case that Robert Hicks of New England is actually the one with the children baptized in Bermondsey. With "Lydia" and "Samuel" matching the children, that seems pretty solid.

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Robert's profile was missing a pretty critical bit of primary evidence that shows he was a fellmonger in Southwark. This actually tells us a lot about him. He doesn't sound like he's really in with the London elite like the Tansor and Tetworth Hicks were. He's not even a free citizen, which is probably why he's down in Southwark selling hides to a Frenchman for lousy prices. It's not a high-prestige trade and not a high-prestige position in it. His first two known sons are named Thomas and John, so odds are one or the other of those his his father's name. It's virtually certain that Thomas and/or John is a father or grandfather. There aren't any weirdo Puritan names in his family until he goes to New England, so I don't think he's a hard core Puritan, at least not before 1620. No "Praisegod", "Hopefor", "Zaccheus", etc. He's actually having infants baptized in the 1600-1620 frame, so he can't be too far out of the Anglican spectrum at that point. He's supposed to be missing from the 1624 Lay Subsidy, which might indicate something useful.

Answer 6

I've been trying to get this document to a cleaner condition before sharing it, but it's taking so long. I'd really like people's input-- especially those who have responding here.  Please feel free to use Google's "suggested edits" and/or "comments" feature to mark it up, ask questions, add details, etc.

You'll see I'm not quite done.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LRe15B0QdC5Z3z4acXqPRiamy1tto5vn7Svqckr8Qes/edit

Comments

Here's the Worcestershire visitation https://archive.org/stream/visitationofcoun00maytrich#page/56/mode/1up
It's the same arms, but the herald didn't think these Hicks were entitled to them since they hadn't been in the previous visitation.

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Another Baptist Hicks (although much later). Please explain as I don't fully understand these visitations. If the visitation was taken in 1682, why are there dates that follow that (well after 1700) included? Thanks.

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It's hard to be sure, but it looks like the editor intended the italicized portions to be additional notes.

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It might be discussed in the preface or something.

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Yeah, "additions by Sir Thomas are given in italics."

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Phillipps

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And a profile

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Phillipps-93

created by a  descendant.

Answer 7

Hi, I now think that, Sir Elias,Ellis Hicks  is the Sir Elias,Ellis Hicks of 1635 . not 1356. This Hicks was made a Knight aboard his Majesties Royal ship The Marie Honor. By Earl of Lindsey.Sept. 23,1635,it is Gentleman Pensioner. Below is where I found this. You may have already seen this, let me know.I am  trying to help.

Google book: A Book of Knights Banneret,Knights of the Bath,and Knights Bachelor:Made between the fourth year of King Henry the VII and the restoration of King Charles II.And also Knights made in Ireland between the years 1566 and 1698. By: Walter Charles Metcalfe, page 193.

No where have I looked is there a Sir Elias,Ellis Hicks other than family trees.

Comments

Thanks, Teresa; that's what we found as well.