DE LAINE Mathurin Charles Leon snr b. 1818 Le Havre, Fr. query re parents. Also Caspar and De Sousa

+5 votes
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Mathurin married Jane Lucas in Adelaide, Sth Australia on 13.3.1843. Lived at Norwood. My Gr. Gr grandparents. I have emailed historical societies in some departments, Fr. His life pre Australia before 1840 approx arrival is unknown. See Familypedia of his name. His parents unknown. Possible parent remarriage links to De Sousa or Casper. I would appreciate any information which may clarify the mystery of his beginnings.
in Genealogy Help by Helen W G2G Rookie (280 points)
retagged by Greg Lavoie

6 Answers

+1 vote
I don't know if there is a link.

A Caetano DE SOUZA married Margueritte Marie Françoise MARC in Le Havre the 8th day of the month of germinal year III (revolutionary calendar). He is a native of Portugal (Pico Island, Azores)

There is another DE SOUZA in Le Havre : German DE SOUZA. He got married in 1819 to Françoise Joseph QUILERIER. He came from Lamego.

Caetano DE SOUZA was the father of Pauline Artémis DE SOUZA (Le Havre 1796- Ingouville 1800)

He also had a son Elie Françoise Adolphe DE SOUZA (1798-1798)

and another one in 1799, Louis Charles Adolphe DE SOUZA.

There is another daughter, Céleste Eugénie DE SOUZA (1803 -1803),

and also Arthémise Marthe DE SOUZA in 1801.
by D Q G2G6 Mach 6 (68.8k points)
+1 vote
I think that the real family name is more likely something like  LAINé
by D Q G2G6 Mach 6 (68.8k points)
edited by D Q
Yes that is correct David. Thankyou David. Helen W.
+1 vote

Caroline Françoise Juliette CASPER, wife of Jean DE SOUZA GULARTE LOPES  was born in Le Havre on December 20th, 1828  (frame 441) to Aza Bullard CASPER and Bérénice Mélanie LAINé. The maternal grandfather of the child is Mathurin LAINé, 72 years old. He is a bookseller. The other witness is Guillaume Noël Marin OZANNE, a maternal uncle.

They married in Le Havre on May 28th, 1828 (frame 89). She is a daughter of Mathurin LAINé and the late Madeleine Marguerite SALLENEUVE.

The wife of Guillaume Noël Marin OZANNE was Marie Madeleine Cécile LAINé ( a son Dominique Guillaume Antoine OZANNE married in 1845 to Jane MACKAY). Marriage in 1810

Another sister, Caroline Camille Agasse LAINé was the wife of Gabriel COSTEY (marriage in 1821).

They had a brother, Eugène Barra LAINé. He is 25 years old in 1821.

He married Adélaïde Egalité BARRé in 1817 (11/DEC/1817)

by D Q G2G6 Mach 6 (68.8k points)
edited by D Q
Mathurin LAINE probably married three times and was from Brittany.

A priori, Mathurin LAINé, fils de René LAINé et de Mathurine HAMON, né le 15 janvier 1757

1er mariage Marguerite Madeleine SALLENEUVE

2e marriage Marie Victoire CHARLET à Saint-Romain-de-Colbosc

3e marriage Madeleine Christine LEDRU au Havre (décédée en 1851 à Honfleur)

Premier mariage avant 1793, décès au Havre de leur fils Nicolas Mathurin LAINé, le 24 avril à l'âge de 7 ans et 2 mois. Il est dit natif de Saint-Michel d'Ingouville.

That's correct.

He married Madeleine Margueritte SALLENEUVE in Ingouville in 1785 (frame 12) (25/APR/1785) and he is a son of René LAINE and Mathurine HAMONT.

A native of Bréhand-Moncontour (Côtes d'Armor)

natif de la paroisse de Bréhant Moncontour dioceze de St Brieu et province de Bretagne et domicilié en celle-ci (= Ingouville) depuis trois ans, âgé de vingt huit ans

His baptism record in Bréhand-Moncontour on January 16th, 1757. Born the day before

Another family tree on Geneanet

Jean DE SOUZA GALORTE dit LOPES est mentionné ici comme officier baleinier. Il est natif des Açores

Dans cette notice,  il est dit que Mathurin Charles Léon LAINé a déserté d'un baleinier.

Now I see that this Caroline, born in 1828, was the half-sister of our Mathurin Laine, born 1818. This answer also shows how the name De Souza is connected. It is interesting that our Mathurin's first child who was born in Australia - a daughter, was named Caroline. Perhaps after her father's half sister back in France. This Caroline was my paternal Great grandmother. My eldest daughter is also Caroline. Thankyou David.

Helen W.
Thanks David. It is great to see the original of birth. These are my ancestors. This Mathurin is my Gr gr gr gr Grandfather. His parents mentioned are 5x Grandparents. I think the name Hamont is really from the family of Hamon.  Kind regards,  Helen W.

Hi,

HAMONT is just another spelling of HAMON. It's a family name quite common in Brittany. See

Thanks David for explaining Hamon variations. Also for the records regarding Jean de Souza Lopes, who married our Mathurin's half sister Caroline. The names de Souza and Casper have been assumed to be linked in some way to our Mathurin Laine/DeLaine, but I have never seen evidence of how before. I cannot find much about Aza Bullard Casper though. He was our Mathurin's stepfather and married to his mother, Berenice LAINE.  I believe he may have been a sea captain. Or perhaps a whaler seaman like his son-in-law Jean de Souza Lopes.  I am very curious about Casper. Perhaps he was also from Portugal or Spain. This is the theory here in Australia. There is also some thought that our Mathurin was educated in USA or Canada. So if I could access information of Aza, I may be able to find if he and wife Berenice ever went to these countries and took our Mathurin. Our Mathurin's mother died. He is believed to have asked a friend who was a doctor from Australia going to France, to visit his mother. Also, that he was cut off as a step son by his stepfather Aza Casper and excluded from other half siblings. Any advice you may have which may help me find these answers would be so great. Thankyou.  Helen W.
Asa Bullard CASPER was American. He was a sea captain and a whaler. His brother Hubbard Bullard CASPER, also a whaler, married a niece of Bérénice Mélanie LAINé in 1833.

Oh my goodness! Thanks to your research Gruss Asa Bullard Casper, in a book written by a naval historian and curator in a museum Marine and Whaling in America, Robert Lloyd Webb. It confirms Casper's life of whaling, leading to a Captain and Master of ships. The book is' On The Northwest, Commercial Whaling in the Pacific Northwest 1790-1967, page 60. I also found names of our Mathurin's  half siblings on another site. Regards, Helen W. Adelaide, South Australia.

Gruss ?

Their sister Emily Howard CASPER got married in Le Havre in 1845 to Charles Georges REIFFINGER, a native of Mayence, grand duché de Hesse. Mainz I guess.

Charles Georges REIFFINGER remarried in 1852 in Paris

Merci, David.  Helen W.
Helen would love to make contact regarding Mathurin Charles Leon Delaine - my email thekempsinoz@hotmail.com

I'm based in Adelaide
+1 vote

I found the birth record of Mathurin Charles Léon LAINé (frame 43 - number 13). He was born in Etretat on February 7th 1818 to Bérénice Mélanie LAINé, out of wedlock. She is 25 years old and the record mentions the names of her parents Mathurin LAINé and the late Margueritte Madeleine SALNEUVE.

by D Q G2G6 Mach 6 (68.8k points)
edited by D Q
Hi David,

Good work on this finding this information.  It is correct, except I note that the birth took place in Étretat, not Etrat.
It's a typo.

Mon ordinateur plante sans cesse à cause du site des Archives départementales. Ce doit être un problème avec Mozilla. Je ne peux pas continuer la recherche. J'écrivais que Margueritte Mardeleine SALLENEUVE était décédée au Havre en l'an IV à l'âge de 27 ans et qu'elle était native de Saint-Vandrille (probablement Saint-Wandrille) et fille de Nicolas SALLENEUVE et  de Marie Madeleine ANDRIEU

Fanstastic David. It was so exciting to see what you found regarding the birth of my Great gr Grandfather. He came to Australia and began his adventure. Many people here are descendants of he and his wife Jane Lucas. Thankyou. Helen W.

Kind of weird if your ancestor had a strong antagonism against the husband of his mother, this DELAINE has Casper in his name

Yes. There was another with Casper in his name too. Because very little has been written about Mathurin's family in France publicly,  there have been a lot of ideas but not a lot of proof I think. This would include idea of him being disinherited as written on Familypedia. If this was so, the name wouldn't be repeated. Thanks for help David.  H.W.

His half brother Pierre Georges CASPER died in Le Havre in 1888, unmarried. Death record frame 149 - number 576

Declaration made by his nephews Henri DECULTOT, printer, 24 years old, and François DE SOUZA LOPEZ, 34 years old, no occupation.

Their cousine Cécile Clémence OZANNE, widow of Hubbard Bullard CASPER passed away in 1892.  Death record frame 388 - number 3404

Her son in law Joseph MACKIEWICZ is a witness. He is 67 years old and lives in Amiens.

His full name is Josaphat Michel MACKIEWICZ according to his death record in Amiens (+ 03/NOV/1897). He was 71 years old. Birthplace Lipno (Pologne). Parents Laurent MACKIEWICZ and Cunégonde SZYMBORSKI.

His wife was Aurélie Pierrette CASPER

The witnesses are his two sons : Lucien Marie Hubert and André Léon.
He married her in Paris on April 1854 (9th arrondissement). A daughter, Lucie Marie Cécile, born in 1860 in Paris.
Henri Marie Hubert MACKIEWICZ married Pauline Marie REIMSBACH. They had a son, Pierre Marie Michel MACKIEWICZ, born in Toul in 1887 (Meurthe-et-Moselle), husband of Marie Louise Anne BLANCHET. He died during WWI in 1914. Mort pour la France

Henri Marie Hubert MACKIEWICZ, chevalier de la Légion d'honneur

He was born in Paris in 1855

Aurélie Pernette CASPER died in Sanvic in 1883. Death record view 64 - number 132

Henri Marie Hubert MACKIEWICZ got married in Pont-à-Mousson on April 13th 1885. He is a doctor. His father is a pharmacist/druggist in Sanvic. Pauline Marie REIMBACH is a native of Metz.
0 votes

What does the book of Lorraine WILLOUGHBY The De Laine family  history 1840-2008 say ? Is the the author alive ?

by D Q G2G6 Mach 6 (68.8k points)
Thankyou David for all the ancestor connections you kindly find. Regarding the book on Mathurin Delaine, I do need to visit the State library again and spend more time reading it. I was not able to before. It is not available to borrow. Much of it contains descendants' family trees. I did not find many confirmed facts of his early life before Australia in it, just theories without proof.  But will have a closer look again. It was written some years ago. I think an aunt of mine was contacted by the author, but there is very little information in it about my family. My father did a lot of genealogy but had passed away before the book. There is definitely not the amazing ancestral records which I have so kindly been given by members of Wikitree and also Geneanet. Your initial comment to mine with Mathurin's actual birth record on Janeologist, has begun my adventure into the huge world of internet genealogy! I had tried before, but with out the skills of researchers such as yourself and others. Thankyou. Helen W.

Hubbard Bullard CASPER died in 1844 in Le Havre

Death record frame 217 - number 405

An inventory after death is established on August 30th, 1844 at the request of his widow.

0 votes
https://familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/Mathurin_Charles_Leon_Delaine_(1818-1886)

How nice not to be mentioned even once when I am the one who found his birth record and reconstructed his family in France !!!

Here again

https://www.cityofadelaide.org.au/the-3-great-great-grandfathers
by D Q G2G6 Mach 6 (68.8k points)
edited by D Q

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