Suggestions and foreign names

Question

Data doctors, we need to have a little chat about the suggestions. I'm getting really annoyed with a few. Now, I don't mind changing someone's birthplace to gel with the time period of when they were born. That's fine. That's cool.

The problem is that far too often I've been getting suggestions regarding Italian names. I hit hide forever and I explain why. The suggestions keep popping up.  I really wish it would stop. I ask because I keep getting it for names like Rosangela Dragone. Rosangela is an Italian name. So you really need to up the game here and not flag them as incorrect spellings. Trust me. It's correct.

The same apparently applies to French names. For example, Claude can be both male or female. Jean is John in French.  Jean for a woman would be Jeanne.

I know this is semantics, but, I am getting really annoyed with the constant suggestions for foreign sounding names. It really gives me the impression that those names aren't welcome here. I know that isn't the case. But, come on. Lay off the foreign sounding names, please. Seeing that pop up constantly in my suggestions gets a little tiresome.

Thanks!

Comments

The spelling check is based on frequency analysis of first name + middle name.

Whenever that name combo occurs more than a handful of times it will stop appearing in the suggestions report. With any luck someone knows the magic number and will pipe up.

So keep entering your Italian names and it will go away in time.

Because it's a frequency analysis, it doesn't pick up really common misspellings, like Willaim for William (unless in combination with a rarer middle name).

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Right. Thanks! It's just annoying that I keep seeing the report. I mean it's spelled like that on the birth banns and everything. I am surprised they haven't flagged "Florindo".Might be some other Florindos on Wikitree.

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Have been dutifully marking the same issue with Irish names simply as "false error" & commenting. "Irish"

Must say, going through this exercise creates a wonderful opportunity to identify profiles in need of sourcing and editing.

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Wow. Irish names are tagged, too? Huh...

I don't manage many Irish profiles. That's surprising. I know a lot of foreign names are marked. But, Irish?! Okay.

I suppose it does identify profiles in need of sourcing.

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People don't realize that Irish is spoken in Ireland, few people spoke English until the 17thC. and these days, many in Ireland prefer their names in Irish rather than an Anglicized version.

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Learn something new every day! Thanks! =D

Answer 1

Hi, Chris.

I see people mostly answered your question.

Looking at Suggestions of you managed profiles. thi list is empty.

http://wikitree.sdms.si/function/WTWebUser/Suggestions.htm?UserID=16396233

And you have 25 marked as False.

http://wikitree.sdms.si/function/WTWebUser/Suggestions.htm?UserID=16396233&ShowHidden=1&HideActive=1

You can lookup any name on WikiTree+

Rosangela is used 4 times and when another one is added, it will no longer be reported as a typo.

http://wikitree.sdms.si/default.htm?report=ana1&FirstName=Rosangela&MaxNames=500

And There is 12 Florindo's, so it shouldn't be marked.

http://wikitree.sdms.si/default.htm?report=ana1&FirstName=Florindo&MaxNames=500

Basil-Michel is the only name with hyphen.

http://wikitree.sdms.si/function/WTWebNameDistribution/errors.htm?FirstName=Basil-Michel&MaxNames=100

With space between, it will not be reported, since both names are very common.

http://wikitree.sdms.si/function/WTWebNameDistribution/errors.htm?FirstName=Basil+Michel&MaxNames=100

Comments

Hey, Ales. Nice to meet you. =D

I try to keep my liar as empty as possible and I do have a lot marked false. Whoops.

I'll check out the names on Wikitree+. Thanks for your help.

Another name I keep getting flagged on is Maxime. Maxime can be male or female I've been told. So...I dunno what can be done about that.

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Maxime is nearly always male in French-speaking countries. Comes from Latin, Maximus, and traditionally we don't use it for girls, though thanks to soap operas on TV the form "Maxine" has appeared for girls.

The problem is that it's only recently become popular - the Maximes I know are teenagers or in their 20s. So I'll be rotting in my grave way before the report can take them in account.

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Totally pictured you shaking your fist at the screen, Isabelle. =) The reason I brought up Maxime is because of this lady:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lepine-156

Maybe her first name is Esperance? I'm not sure. She does tend to get a few errors. And I think Harry Potter may have something to do with Maxime becoming popular. But, the head of Beaubatons' name was Olympe Maxime. So...There ya go.

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Maxime Lépine looks like one of the exceptions, a girl called Maxime in a French-speaking context. Maxime is predominantly male in my culture, but not 100%.

(and I actually smashed my mug of coffee on the screen, but never mind ;-)

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Hahaha!

*writes note "Never make Isabelle mad at you. You'll get a baquette to the head...."*

I guess in life there are exceptions to everything. Even today celebrities name their kids weird names. And some friends have named their kids after fictional characters. Too each their own. =)

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I don't care how mad you get, you don't waste COFFEE!!!!. I hope you downed it before you smashed your mug. (saves on washing it too.)

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And monitor/keyboard repairs. =)

Answer 2

Unfortunately if you lay off the foreign sounding names and foreign places and different area customs you no longer have a suggestions report. It would become useless at that point because it will call attention to nothing.

In order to catch the most errors you will inevitably point to things that are also correct. That is why we have the "correct, hide forever" option.

If 5,000 people named Jean are female and 5 are male, it questions it. Now as more are added where Jean is male it will see that it can be either gender. If 5,000 are female and 50 are male and confirmed correct, it will probably start skipping this and people won't have to keep saying it is ok.

At this time however, it will also miss where someone just checked the wrong gender also. So everything is a trade-off. It works on percentages unless it has something else to base it on or is deliberately over-ridden. And honestly, since most of WikiTree IS American at the moment, those conventions are the strongest. As it expands into other countries those will shift with time.

Comments

Right. That makes sense. =)  Thanks, man.

The thing is, though, sometimes the reports for the same people keep coming back. I hit "hide forever" and leave a note. But, it keeps coming back.

Names like Rosangela and Franciscoantonio are consistently reported by the data doctors. After they get one response saying "No. The spelling is correct" it shouldn't pop up again. Why does it keep popping up? Is it the percentages and trade offs? Would we have to create a ton of Rosangelas and Franciscoantonios for the system to say "Okay. Okay. We're sorry!"

I hear what you are saying, Steve. It's just really frustrating, ya know? Hopefully it does shift. I have been bearing with it. It's just annoying how it pops up again and again.

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ok, the same person shouldn't pop up for the same exact reason if you corrected the same exact error.

I know sometimes it is something like Jean Marie is Male and you say Jean is male. Then it still dings Marie as a female name. If this ISN'T the case and it is the exact trigger getting unhidden then Ales needs to know about it because the bot ignored that.

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Ironically, this is not the worst bot I've had to deal with. =)

How do we get Ales's attention?

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you could send him a private message. Either an email or from his account on wikitree?

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Sure. Just link me to his profile.

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https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Trtnik-2

I was already looking. LOL

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Okay. Sending a quick message. Thanks.

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Given the overwhelming proportion of American English profiles, my guess is that exotic names in French or Italian will never reach a large enough percentage to stop being errors. I get new Unique Name and Wrong Gender  suggestions in my watchlist every week, even for profiles that were not created recently and sometimes even for profiles that were previously marked False Error. The errors don't go away - they just keep cropping up.

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Sometimes I want to make up names just to mess with the system.
"No, no. His name is Bort. Bort Longbottom III" =P

I'll just deal with it. It was just really annoying you know.

Now to find more Bort license plates. The gift shop ran out. =)

Answer 3

Oh mercy, I’ve had this exact same problem with my crazy Southern names, especially my mountain families, names like Clarendy (f.) and Lusla (m.) and Reamer (f.) and Delphia (f.) and Jean (as a m.) Enneretter (f., a variant of Henrietta, spelled just like it was pronounced), and Cansadie (f). Fortunately for me, these occur only once each in my tree, but I don’t feel like explaining this to a computer (if I ignore it, will it go away?). Here names don’t even sound foreign to me as I grew up with these folks.

How about Jedon, a variant of Gideon. Uncle Jede’s true name shows up in his first census records, and Jedon in just about every record since.p, even his gravestone.

I get suggestions on these names all the time. At least the WT suggestion program doesn’t laugh at me for the rural, mountain names of my family  like people do.

Comments

If you ignore it, it won't go away. If they're cluttering up your suggestion report, just mark them as false suggestions. Refresh, and they will go away.

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Thanks, Mark. I’ll do just that. Much appreciated.