Locations in what is now Thailand.

+3 votes
62 views

There are a good number of excellent profiles that have Thailand in their location.fields. Thailand is a modern country formed in 1949. Prior to that it was Siam and prior to 1855 comprised of various Kingdoms. 

To quote Wikitree help Our guiding principle is the same as the one for Name Fields: "use their conventions instead of ours."

Applied to locations, this means using place names in native languages and using the names that people at the time used, even if they now no longer exist. 

So in theory it should be in thai script but the Thais do dual their language I think we can live with the faux english version.  However perhaps some thai should go in the bio for search purposes after all the Thais do search in thai !! . But Bangkok is next it's actually Krung Thep Maha Nakhon. Before Siam it was the capital of the Kingdom of Bangkok. But even that statement is complex.and probably questionable.. I was looking at the Guam conundrum that was asked earlier and that is what prompted this.question. Can we have exceptions if so why and should these be spelled out  (sorry about that) country by country. This is interesting as there are a good number of WWII graves in Siam ! all incorrectly located or may be not. I cannot at present work out what the country was called between about 1944 and 1949 before it officially became Thailand. Note this potted history is iffy and needs more detailed research.

So locate correctly or not?  Stand by Ales ;-) 

in Policy and Style by Chris Hoult G2G6 Mach 1 (19.9k points)

1 Answer

+4 votes
Bangkok is a special case as it actually was the name of the small village that was on the site before it became the capital.  Furthermore, all Thai people are familiar with the name "Bangkok" and will use it to refer to the capital when speaking to foreigners.  So that one might be a special case and I think Thais would probably be OK with us using it here. If "Krung Tep" is used, obviously Bankgok would have to be added as well because then nobody but Thais would know what you are talking about.  So I personally would say that we should stay with Bangkok.

I believe the first name change from Siam to Thailand occurred in 1939 under the post-rebellion government.  I think anything prior to 1939 would be "Siam."  Actually "Siam" would be appropriate all the way back to the Ayutthaya period, (ended late 1700s) although of course the borders of Siam during that time were pretty different, i.e.some of modern Lao and Cambodia were part of Siam at some periods.

The period 1939 to 1948 is problematic because 1948 is when the name change became "official." I think using Siam / Thailand for that period would be most appropriate because of the political turmoil in the country at that time.

I am not sure where you are getting the 1855 date for the start of the Kingdom.  Rama I was crowned in 1785 and I believe most modern Thais would trace the history of their country back to him.

Do we really have any profiles on the site that go back to pre-Siam?
by Crispin Reedy G2G6 Mach 4 (42.2k points)

I guess it's if you can define a start date for Siam. Is a separate Kingdom a country?  

To be honest a modernish location is the answer. with 1939 to 1949 being questionable. Siam before 1939 Thailand after 1949 and both for the dodgy bit? This solves the problem of the WWII profiles that nearly all use Thailand pre 1949. Certainly an excellent job on the Royals has been made back into the the overthrow of Ayutthaya Kingdom mid 1700 with King Rama I of Siam so at the moment I don't think it goes any earlier.  The problem is that it is an exception. But actually using historic locations would be a useless endeavour. (Unless you are a Thai).But for some an exception would be the thin edge of the wedge..

I think 1855 defined the start of the Bangkok Kingdom.or should the year be 2358? I.m not going to go there ;-)

Oh if I want to be picky King Rama 1 was probably born pre Siam ;-) as he started it! Chulalok-1 has Ayutthaya Siam as his birth. But at least it is searchable.. 

 

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