Information for all with German Roots: "Evangelisch" is no place, it refers to the protestant religion

Question

I'm just cleaning up locations, since that is the current Data Doctor's Challenge and I see very often in German locations (I make up something now) "Evangelisch, Bonn, Westfalen, Preußen." or "Katholisch, Karlsruhe, Baden". Neither this "Evangelisch" nor "Katholisch" is actually a place, it refers to the religion of the parents as they are mainly used in Baptism records. "Katholisch" is "catholic" and "evangelisch" is in most cases that what is called "lutheran" in the USA.

While I make a note in the biography of the profiles I clean from those "places", I hope to have helped the folks with German roots here to clean up those profiles themselves, as I know this bug comes actually from the FamilySearch database.

Comments

Excellent suggestion and explanation, Jelena. I've seen  a few of these in my rambling searches through the trees.

---

Thanks, Jelena.  Many people do not have even a few clues about other nations and their languages, I'm sorry to say. In my childhood/high school freshman year, I took a German language class or two. I also passed a German literary exam on the reading of Schiller's literary criticism (almost pure hell, but because of the professor, who made me take it twice because I had not translated four words correctly. If that had happened to me in this era, I'd have gone directly to the Dean or at least the Chair of Language Studies. In that whole year, I grew to dislike German. (and yes, my father and his mother were Germans.) But I can half-way translate some texts and some opera dialogue.(Useful? you tell me.) (smiling emoji goes here!)

Answer 1

Grrrrr. I just checked mine and found two. I should know better. Thanks Jelena for bringing this up.

Comments

Richard, I'm sure the two came from a quick cut and paste. So often we don't proofread.

Answer 2

If there is definitely no place Evangelisch, I can add it to forbidden location words suggestion.

Here you can see all uses in location fields.

https://plus.wikitree.com/default.htm?report=ana6&Location=Evangelisch&ReportType=0

https://plus.wikitree.com/default.htm?report=ana6&Location=Katholisch&ReportType=0

I could add it just for Germany and Prussia if those names are actual locations elsewhere.

Comments

I skimmed the "Evangelisch" report, and I see several other religion-related words that don't belong in location fields, including "Kirche" (church), Lutherische (and its English equivalent Lutheran), Reformierte (and its English equivalent Reformed), and Protestantische (Protestant).

---

I agree, except for constructions with "Kirche", which might also be used to specify the actual church, a baptism or wedding was performed in. Is such thing allowed in location fields?

---

It's my understanding that the data fields for locations are not supposed to include the names of churches.

Distinguishing between church names and place names can be a challenge sometimes...

---

Do not include a house number, street address, building name, church, hospital, etc., in the location field unless it represents an administrative division, such as a parish.

(via Help:Location Fields)

"Evangelisch" and "Katholisch" are still wrong, but they also determine the parish. But since when are we using church administrative regions and not earthly/secularly/profane ones?

---

The location field should have only the place. The church name and the "belief" should come into the bio.

So it would look like that: Marriage location field: "Tangermünde, Sachsen, Preußen, Deutscher Bund"

Bio: "They married in the lutheran Stephanskirche."

Answer 3

Look its obvious that most WikiTreers are North Americans with little or no knowledge of the German Language, German records and documents, and Germanic Europe in general. But I don't understand all of this nit picking over semantics and place names!  People are never going to get it exactly correct, especially with all the name and border changes etc over time!

Can't we just do the genealogy?

Comments

We are told to use place names in the native language, which means to write German location names in German. In this post I only said that "katholisch" and "evangelisch" is not a part of the actual location. If you know a location, it is better to write it in English or in the current version than to not put it in the location field. It is preferred by the Germany Project though to have the location field in German and historically correct.

---

 Of course, you and I know better. What I'm saying is that it's not going to happen with most members creating profiles for Germans/Germany. It's just way too complicated for most North American members. Even I get confused sometimes, especially with ancestors that lived in Alsace. Lots of little Duchies always changing controlling powers and borders. We could spend days just correcting all the profiles with Baden-Württemberg as place name, which didn't exist until 1952. Our German members will know better. However kudos to you and all the other members spending time making these corrections!  I couldn't do it. I don't have the patience and would be totally frustrated ,as you are, with all these errors. Indeed, members should know that Evangelisch is a faith (protestant churches including Lutheran and Reformed Church). 

---

And I am writing on every occasion that the locations should be put in the local language to teach people about the style guide. And if only two people read that and learn how to fill the locations in the language of their ancestors, it helps the Tree in its entirety, because then less profiles have to be corrected.

Yes, German history is complicated, especially before 1806. Even we Germans have to check regularily when which name was valid for the territory around a certain town. But it is part of the style guide here.