Anyone have any info on Veronica Reilly, b 12/1923 poss raised by Joseph & Ida Wiesner?

Question

Veronica Theresa Reilly b. 12/1923 in Brooklyn, NY possibly raised by Joseph and Ida Weisner.  Mother - Anne Reilly b. 7/11 in Brooklyn, NY.  Veronica gave birth to a son, Frederick Walter Terkowski on 9/11/1941 in Fort Jay, NJ.  Veronica married Donald Brewer who adopted Frederick who is now legally Frederick Walter Brewer.

We have no information on Anne's father, Veronica's father or Frederick's father and are desperate for information. Any information you have would be appreciated.

Answer 1

I don't have much confidence in the reliability of this info since I can not find good source info to substantiate it. It comes from a family tree on Ancestry.com called Brown Family tree, user name wolfsdream49:

 

Veronica Theresa Reilly

B: 4 Dec 1923 Brooklyn, NY   D: 20 May 1985 Ontario, Malheur, OR

Spouse:

Marion Donald Brewer B: 27 Nov 1912 St Louis, MO  D: 11 Dec 1960 Santa Clara, CA

 

Parents:

Anna Marie Reilly B: 11 Jul 1911 New York  D: 14 Nov 1995 Marysville, CA

Vincent William McElroen B: 7 Aug 1913 Yonkers, NY  D: 24 Jul 1966 Marysville, CA

Comments

Hii thanks for responding so quickly to my question.  This is the correct Veronica and the Donald Brewer is her husband who adopted my father.  It is also very possibly the correct Anne Reilly but she married Vincent many years after Veronica was born.

This is where I have run into the dead ends.  I have paid so much money on Ancestry.com and other sites and keep hitting this same wall and so this is my last option and I am really wanting to provide my father answers he has been wanting for a long time. I am an amateur at this so don't really know much and tried to follow the little leafs on ancestry.com but for some reason it lead to brick walls on this particular branch so any help anyone can give me will be so greatly appreciated.

I have Veronica on a 1930 census at 6 years old as a boarder with Joseph and Ida Wiesner and the story passed down was that Anne gave Veronica to another family to live with since she was illegitimate.  So I believe this to be true but cannot verify it  yet.

Please, any information on any of these people or Joseph and Ida Wiesner who could give me information would be so helpful.

---

If Ann Reilly b 1911 was Veronica's mom, she was only 12 years old when Veronica was born. Not impossible, and if accurate, might explain why Veronica was not raised by her child-mother.

I'd be hard after a birth certificate for Veronica.

Have you found Ann Reilly in the 1920 census?

---

Hi, yes that is the dirty little secret I am finding is the first key to finding the answer to...I asked my dad about it and he said he remembers when he was young overhearing something about it...if this was a non-consenual underage encounter I don't know that there will ever be a way to find any answers.  That would be a reason no one would answer my father's questions about his heritage.  And if Veronica was the product of something like this, then having an child out of wedlock herself may not be hard to understand but also again something she would not want to talk about.  But if so, why give my father the name Terkowski on his birth certificate?  That being a name no one knows or recognizes and yet not puttiing the name of the father on the birth certificate.  It is so confusing and frustrating and sad but my dad is not the healthiest and all he has wanted was answers to where he comes from and what his story is and I would so like to give him those answers.  I will keep trying anyway.

---

CharLee,

You do have a challenge, don't you.

Here's another idea... start exploring some hypotheses about the Wiesners and their possible relationship-- blood or otherwise-- to the Reilly's. Work them backwards. Were they neighbors of the Reilly's? Where were they in 1920? Where was Ann Reilly in 1920? in 1930?

Look at the census pages where you find one-- is the other family anywhere in the vicinity?

What did the Wiesner's do for a living? Were they any Reilly's in Brooklyn who were in the same or a related occupation?

Consider yourself Nancy Drew. (I may be dating myself here...) Or Sherlock Holmes.

Answer 2

Because I did love Nancy Drew, I can't resist a mystery... (I so do not have time to be doing this, but...)

In 1930, Joseph (60) & Ida (43) Wiesner lived in District 1121 of Brooklyn, Kings, New York—at 42 Forrest Place. He was a German-born shipping clerk for a shoe company. They had two sons and a daughter, all born in New York -- Walter (15), Frederick (12) and Ruth A. (16).  Also living with them in 1930 was a “boarder” Veronica Reilly, 6 years and 5 months old on April 4, 1930 when the census was taken. This suggests that she was born in November or December 1923. She was born in New York of “U.S. unknown” parents.

In 1930 in Brooklyn, there were two Anna Reillies born about 1911:

1.     In District 14, at 205 Park Avenue was an Anna, daughter of Thomas & Anna Reilly—both American born of Irish (“free state”) parents. [Find out what “free state” meant—it may help identify if this Reilly family was Catholic or Protestant.]  Anna was second oldest of eight children. Her father Thomas was a boilermaker for the gas company.

2.     In District 284, at 691 Madison Street, in what appears to be a multi-family building (such as an apartment – i.e. many families at this same address), Anna is the oldest (at least living at home) of four children of James and Mary Reilly. James and Mary were born in Ireland and emigrated to the U.S. in 1903. James was a construction laborer.

Going back a decade to 1920,  Joseph A. and Ida Wiesner were living at 344 92^nd Street in district 485, Brooklyn, Kings, New York. He emigrated in 1900; Ida in 1904. He was then also a shipping clerk for a shoe factory. Living with him are his children: Ruth Anna, 6; Walter F., 4 and 11? Months, Ottelie M., dau 3 and 6 or 11 months; Frederick F., 2 and 7 months. Also living with them were two lodgers from Indiana – Bertha and Frank Grenzer. Frank was a sergeant in the Army. I see no Reillies enumerated nearby.

Seeking 1911-born Ann/Anna Reillies, we find the same families as above, plus an additional possibility:

1.     At 13 Clermont Avenue, district 222, Brooklyn: Anna, 9. Her father Thomas was an Iron Maker at the shipyard. CLUE: Both this Thomas and Joseph Wiesner were in shipping-related occupations.

2.     At 112 Bedford Avenue, district 798, again in a multi-family structure, are James and Susan Reilly of Ireland (this time it says they both emigrated in 1906). James is a bartender in a café.

3.     Anna, 9, daughter of William P. and Anna Reilly at 342 Second Avenue, in District 558, Brooklyn. Along with several children (including Anna) is “brother-in-law” Christopher Granby?, 26. All residents born New York. William’s parents were Irish. William was a stationary engineer in a chemical company.

Veronica, 16, is still living with the Wiesners in 1940, identified as a foster child. They’re still at 42 Forrest Place in Brooklyn. Joseph (still shipping shoes) and Ida’s children are with them, including Ruth, 26, Walter, 25, and Frederick, 22. The boys are plumbers. Living upstairs on the second floor is Jos. Brady, 70, of NY, a peddler. Sometime this year, Veronica gets pregnant.  I am struck that she names her son after her foster brothers, Walter and Frederick.

As for Terkowski, there is a family by this name in Newport, Luzerne, Pennsylvania in 1940. The sons seem a bit young (Eugene b 1926, Frank b 1927) to be fathering a child born in 1941 (14 and 13, respectively). Their father, Frank Sr was born in 1902; he was an “amberman”? in a “condominium”? (I don’t think that word was used then, so I don’t think I’m deciphering the handwriting correctly.)

Next step: get a map. Or use Google maps. Find out where all these families lived geographically. Any proximity to each other?

And next up, I'm going to find out how you obtain a 1923 birth certificate in New York state.

 

Comments

OMG!  I am still a bit confused as this is the first time I have ever done geneology but wow what you found is amazing.  If Anna and her parents came from Ireland that might explain a lot of the difficulty I am having couldn't it?  I also think it says a lot that she named my father after her foster brothers Frederick and Walter which would say to me that the time she spent  with the Wiesner's was a happy time and she had the family she needed and desired. That is my hope for her though from what I have heard she was a sad woman.  I found my father a year after she passed and was saddened because I have been told by both my father and my aunts that she wanted to meet me before she passed and I was 1 year late.. But for my father if I can answer these questions, which are now my questions, because like you I loe a mystery, that would be awesome.

I am beginning to think the answers might be found by finding the Wiesners.  They would probably have more answers, if stories have been passed down, and having Veronica so much a part of the family that she named her son after her foster brothers, I have a feeling they know things that perhaps others don't.

I am a true amateur.  I have never done this before ever and am doing this for my father as a gift to him and truly have no idea what I am doing other than spending money on websites that don't seem to help me at all, then I found this one which is free and you and others have helped more in a short time.  Any help you can give me would be so appreciated as i have been searching for about 5 years and spent so much money so please if you find any more or can decipher some of this ...I am so appreciative of all the help everyone here has given me already I wish I had come to this site first.

Thank you!

---

Ok...finding a little at a time...

1. The Irish Free State was Southern Ireland.

As for the name Terkowski and Veronica giving my father that surname.  I had thought it was a clue as to his paternity but now I am beginnning to think it may have been something she did to throw him off if  he ever decided to try and find his father. I know that sounds bad, but it is a possibility.  I am feeling overwhelmed I don't know where to start with the information you gave me.  I found out what the Free State is.  I am going to go over it a few times and let it sink in and then see what I can find...if you find anything else of course please let me know.  Thanks.  The Ancestry.com commercials make this look so easy but they lie...lol

---

CharLee, if I were you, my next step would be to try to get Veronica's birth certificate.

let me get back to you re: advice for tracking the wiesners to the present-- others here, please feel free to jump in .

Answer 3

According to The Red Book (3rd edition 2004): 

"Copies of vital record crtificates, marked "for genealogical research only" can be issued at the state of local level for the current fee of $22 each. This applies oly to births recorded at least seventy-five years ago [1939 and back... phew]... Indexes to these records are available at the New York State Archives in Albany, the National Archives-- Northeast Region in New York City, the Onondaga County Public Library in Systacuse, the Rochester public Library ad the Buffalo and Erie County Public Library, all of which also have a list of local registrars from which coies of the records may be obtained. Copies may also be obtained from the Ne York Department of Health, Vital Records Section, Genealogy Unit, PO Box 2602, Albany, NY 12237-2602 <www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/consumer/vr.html>, but a long delay for a response is likely because of the large backlog of requests. Certified copies of birth, marriage, and death certificates, at the local or state level, are currently $30 each." 

That information is 10 years old; there my be more recent info that is different.

Comments

http://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/

 

http://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/genealogy.htm

Answer 4

Found Veronica, age 1, in the 1925 New York *state* census. She's living with the Wiesners. That means she lived with them pretty darn soon after her birth. The census taker speller her name RILEY. First time I've seen it spelled this way.

Answer 5

Did some poking around looking for Wiesners. Both Walter and Frederick served in the Army during WWII. They have enlistment records on Ancestry.com; Frederick, the younger brother enlisted in 1942 and seved until 1946; Walter enlisted in May 1943 and was released in Nov 1945. He had JUST gotten married three months before to Bonnie L. Symons in Missouri. At the time of Walter's enlistment he was residing in Tennessee. At first I thought it was a different guy, but his military records indicate he was from NY and had plumbing skills. This matches the census records. 

They ended up in Springfield, Illinois where they are both buried. Not immediately evident that they had children. 

Of interest is a 1932 marriage record in Kings Co., NY (where Brooklyn is) of Walter J. Wiesner 2 Jun 1932 to Ida Scicolone. Name looks like "our guy" but if it's him, they were no longer married by the 1940 census when he is single and living with his parents and siblings. [Note: Ida was also the name of his mother]

The younger brother Frederick was single when he enlisted in the Army in 1942. I don't find an obvious marriage record for him. He died in 1982 and is buried at Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn, Lot 38325, Sect 39.

Sources (all found through Ancestry.com):

• US Dept of Veteran Affairs BILS Death file
• Find-a-Grave
• US World War II Enlistment Records 
• 1925 New York State Census
• NY Marriage Index 1866-1937
• Missouri Marriage Records

I also did a cursory search for Ruth Wiesner with no luck. 

Comments

Thank you Jillaine...been down with the flu but will be back digging very soon.  Thank you so much for all your help and I pray and beg your continued help...but you have given me much to work with.  Thank you so much!

---

As I recommended above, if I were you, I'd go after Veronica's birth record next.

---

Hi Jillian, feeling a little better and wanted to share some things and get your insight on some interesting things I have found that add to the mystery a bit.  Veronica's mother, Anna was married to Vincent McElroen when she died on Nov. 14 1995 in California. But their are 2 different US Social Security Death Index records for her both have all the same information except different birth dates; one says she was born on July 21, 1914 and one says she was born on July 11, 1911.  I say the 1911 date is more likely the right one because she would have 8 or 9 when she had Veronica.  I tried to get a birth certificate for Anna so I could have a record to verify which is correct and to have her parents name as the record with the 1911 date says her mother's maiden name is Duffy.  Anyway, I could find no record of her birth at all.  I did find a record of an Anna M.Reilly, age 2, as a passenger on a ship from Londonderry but of Irish citizenship traveling to New York with her family.  Is it possible, and I am not sure it is the same Anna, but is it possible she was actually born in Ireland but her family said she was born in America because she was young enough to get away with it and records among imigrants back then were messed up and when the census came around they said she was born in America?  Is that possible?  Did things like that happen back then?  When the Social Security program started later she could have gotten a Social Security number etc and perhaps never knew herself she wasn't born in America...anyway, is it possible that she got here at 2 and they said she was born in America? What do you think? Thanks!

---

When did she marry McElroen?

I'd want to see what the various census records say about her birthplace.

What was the date of the passenger list? Who was she travelling with?

Anything's possible. ;-)

---

Hi I'm looking for my friends cousin her name is Ann reilly and her mother's name was Ann nancy reilly she was unmarried and worked as a nurse in st Mary's hospital in paddington England she was born in ireland in 1912. We know she asked her sister in USA to adopt her child but the sister didnt. So we dont know wat ever happened to the child Ann Reilly bit sure if its Anne,,, we also know that the mother left england and went to south Africa dont know the year tho. If you have any info please get in touch.thanks

---

Susina, you might want to start a separate g2g thread with your query, as I doubt your search is related to this one.