Which LNAB for Estoreyt, Forester of Flanders?

Question

There are duplicates ready to be merged for Estorede, forester of Flanders. They were both unsourced. I added a couple of references on one of the profiles. They are quite weak, but this is what I came up with after a quick search to identify who this Estorede really was. I honestly have no idea if this is even enough to confirm these people really existed.

But, since we have the profile, we ought to document it and give it a name - which should it be? Both profiles have bad Last Names at Birth.

Thank you!

Answer 1

Given that the whole line is totally fictional with not a shred of evidence that he actually existed, I'm not sure how much it matters about giving him an LNAB that is correct (if such a thing exists for a fictional character).

Perhaps it is better to continue to use something that is generally recognised.

There is a bit about the fictional generations of the Counts of Flanders here  http://home.earthlink.net/~henryproject/hproject/prov/baldw001.htm which doesn't even mention Estorede, suggesting that he entered the story much later.

Comments

Thanks! It did look fictional, since nearly all the Google hits went to online family trees.

The books detailing the "lineage" have Lyderic as son of Estorede. And they give Estorede a father, and a grandfather (also Lyderic) and perhaps it goes on and on. The earliest book was published in 1538.

---

If a specific "legend" can be identified that led to the creation of these characters, then a category can be created for the legend and placed on all the profiles that are affected.  A number of false genealogies can be traced to medieval monks who wanted to strengthen the charter of a particular monastery or the legitimacy of a particular ruler.  The genealogies then are false, but the creation of the falsehood itself is a true historical fact.

---

Even if we can't identify the origin of the legend at this point, it should not stop us from creating a category. It can always be renamed. Until then we can still look for profiles representing characters of the legend. They will need to be disconnected; it would be only convenient to group them together.

---

This one has a Great Forester of Flanders

https://archive.org/stream/fostergenealogy03pier#page/n8/

 

---

Pierce's "Anacher" seems to be a mutated version of Audacer or Odoacer, accepted by Stewart Baldwin as probable father of Count Baldwin I, on thin evidence.

So Pierce didn't make him up.  But I assume he made up Sir Richard Forester, brother of Queen Maud.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Flandre-41

An interesting example of a faker at work is the way he uses 3 different tricks to shorten the line of counts by 3 generations.  He must have thought that if he had too many counts between Anacher and Sir Richard, the Forester connection might look a bit tenuous.

But I digress.

Baldwin's sgm posts

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/Jzpo4-x66oY

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/5IV9SmJ4ucU

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/-5Pvg64pvM

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/lRn43uzP-GQ

which presumably say the same as the Henry Project page, with only one minor comment from the audience.

MedLands

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FLANDERS,%20HAINAUT.htm

FabPedigree has a wondrous concoction

https://fabpedigree.com/s066/f150984.htm

Odoacer is given a totally different line of ancestors, and the foresters are moved across to his wife's side, with not 1 but 5 Lyderics.

 

 

---

The line on FabPedigree is actually what we have on WikiTree, except WikiTree wisely disconnected above Baldwin, but the Estorede, Burchard, Antoine etc. generations are there, complete with the attempt to connect to the Merovingians. (why am I not surprised?)

---

Pics

https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/611599-a/liderick-dict-le-buc-1-forestier-de-flandre-anthonie-2-forestier-de-flandre

 

 

---

Old book

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A10743.0001.001/1:11.86?rgn=div2;view=fulltext

But this source doesn't make Estored the son of Bouchard.  It makes Bouchard the brother of Antony and then talks about a 100-year gap before Estored (though it seems a bit early for the Norman and Danish pyrats).