Can someone help me enter pre 1500 ancestor info?

+5 votes
291 views

John Penrose

Birth: circa 1380
Cornwall, England, United Kingdom
Managed by: Private User

Son of John Penrose and Johanna Carnver
Husband of Margery Penrose
Father of Jeffrey Penrose and Elizabeth Tremayne

Brother of Katherine Penrose; Joan Trefusis; Johanna Penrose and Katherine Penrose

 

This info above: John Penrose is Jeffery Penrose Father and his mother I have which is Margery (Saint Aubyn) Penrose. Jeffery's Profile: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Penrose-190

 

I have more that needs adding. My great, great aunt gave me the family tree dating way back, and I have picked up from there and have went back even further.

Please message me through Wiki Tree if you can help me.

 

in Genealogy Help by Linda Hoffman G2G Crew (650 points)
retagged by John Atkinson
I agree with John Atkinson's answer below. I used too think that family documenting was very thorough until, I kept researching,and found little flaws in dates with no records in the 1600s and such. Sourcing is everything.
Have you tried www.cornwall-opc-database.org?
Thanks Neil. But your answer does not help me enter Pre 1500 ancestors on WikiTree.

2 Answers

+6 votes

Do you have online sources and a link to the information to prove the fact for John Penrose aka Jeffery Penrose? If so add the link to the source to your question, please. Also, add the tags MENTORS, WIKITREE_HELP

by David Selman G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)
John Penrose is not AKA Jeffrey Penrose!!! John Penrose is Jefferey's Father.

And John Penrose his father is also a John Penrose, Sr.

My great great aunt gave me the family tree from 1500's to 1900's. I have followed the tree with extensive research all the way back to the 1200's.

Here is Jeffery's profile: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Penrose-190 This is where the info would be added. Jeffery's Dad and Jeffery's Child

I need his Father (John) added

https://www.geni.com/people/Margery-Penrose/4865504242520069084

I need his child (Johannes Penrose) added 1440 Birth Year

If you can do this I have more info that needs added to other profile of which I cannot add with out the Pre 1500 badge.

Hi Linda, As John stated we do not consider other family trees at paid genealogy site a verifiable and a primary source. A primary source would be a birth and death record,census  record or even a verified and published book with the name of the book, author, date of publication and page number of the book etc.

I suggest if you are going to work Pre-1500 profiles you apply for the Pre-1500 certification.

+8 votes
Hi Linda, it looks like you have adopted quite a few Penrose profiles, but none of them have any sources so far.

I think if you start by adding appropriate sources to the 1500+ profiles first then look at the pre-1500 after that. Geni.com profiles are generally not considered the best sources particularly for pre-1700 profiles.

Just from a really quick look, there are some in the current Penrose line that are from Yorkshire and others from Cornwall which suggests there are a couple of different lines mixed in together.
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (478k points)

I have no idea where my great great aunt received all her sources of info, except I do know some was through family records, bibles, and public files etc... She worked on what she gave me for years, and I didn't question her work.

As for the Penrose's being from Yorkshire, Cornwall, Sithney, or  Porthleven and where ever else, let me ask you this: Has all of your family stayed in one place? I would say the answer is NO!!! Children move, families move and they move for several different reasons. Some of my Penrose ancestors were born in Yorkshire and died in friggin Ireland. Why? Because as an example Robert married an Irish girl and moved there, they then had children there. So your comment is totally moot about the lines being totally different and mixed up.

If you question my lineage, then just say you don't care to help. I am from Indiana, but I don't live there anymore. Does that mean to you that I am from a different lineage since I am in Tennessee instead of Indiana? Or that I am not Roy Penrose's daughter? Haa Haa Haa, no it means nothing at all!!!

 

Linda! Easy does it. In my case, I inherited, via oral history, some bad leads on my Underwood line. It sent me down some very deep rabbit holes. When a cousin came up with some top notch research that blew away the accepted belief,  had re-evaluate my family’s history. I guess what I had to deal with the most is that the oral history came from my beloved grandfather whose ground I worshipped. I grew up with him and thought that everything he said was gospel. I don’t love my grandfather less because of the erroneous history. 

Please don’t be upset by what I’m saying here, or what others are suggesting. Just take a deep breath and let the responses you’ve gotten marinate for a bit. You might find something worthwhile. What I am not suggesting is that anything that your aunt handed down to you is incorrect. 

Hang in there. This really is a great community. I don’t find all my answers here, but I sure do know a lot of folks who really care... about me, about good genealogy, and about collaboration. It is worth me to stay the course and take the advice as it’s given, with courtesy and knowledge. 

Thank you, Linda, for participating here, and for hearing me out. I mean no disrespect to you or your research. Blessings!

Linda, I too currently live in a different state to the one I was born in, and my ancestors all travelled from England to Australia in the 19th century, but for the Penrose profiles in the 15th and 16th centuries travel would have been very different.

The only means of travel would have been on foot, or if you were wealthy by horseback or by some form of cart and roads were practically non-existent.  The very wealthy members of the nobility might have owned lands in various counties in England, but I suspect none would have held land in Yorkshire and Cornwall.

Consequently I think having one generation born in Yorkshire and the following in Cornwall is definitely worth investigating further.
John,

There is a Penrose Manor House in the county of Porthleven Cornwall England. My ancestors may have been rich, still trying to find out if my lineage are the ones who owned the Manor House. There is also a Penrose Campsite in Porthleven Cornwall England. I am also researching if this land was owned by my ancestors. I also found a Penrose who was a Tax Collector, but again researching if he too is in my lineage. There are several different Benjamin, Robert's etc... Penrose's and when I first began following where my Aunt left off, I went through the wrong Benjamin lineage, had to start all over and figure out which Benjamin was the right lineage. These ancestors couldn't seem to come up with more than a handful of names, and thus researching can get very confusing. I have taken a lot of time researching, and most of my info comes from the Chambers/Mullin Genealogy.  The only place I could actually follow what made sense. And, according to this site (WIKI TREE) I am related to the present Queen of England, I can't remember the degrees but it wasn't a real high number. Not real impressed with this info, as I know my ancestors had to have enough money to leave England to get away from the Quote Unquote Royal Family BS. My dad said most of our relatives were from Cornwall, but that some left there and so I am thinking those who are from Yorkshire etc... are the ones who left Cornwall. And Porthleven and Sythney are Counties of Cornwall, and not another City, Village, whatever they call them across the pond.

On another note: Have you ever watched Doc Martin? Wherever Portwein (spelling) is, that is where Doc Martin was filmed. It's somewhere in England. I love that show along with several other British shows.
Hi John,

Here is something I just found tonight.

Jeffrey Penrose:

Seventh Generation
23
Maud Tremayne
b
abt 1423
,
marr
Jeffrey Penrose abt 1443 Cornwall.
JEFFREY PENROSE
In 27 Henry VI (1449) John Penros, Methleigh, grants to Galfidius Penros, his son and heir, and to Maude daughter of John Tremayne, all his lands.
So now I have to research to see if my Jeffrey Penrose married a Maude Tremayne. From the previous research I have done, I do have a M. Tremayne as Jeffrey's wife, with a child Johannes (a male). Question is does the M stand for Maude? I will keep researching. But at some point I have to get this info into a site that will allow me to enter it.

I don't understand what I have to do to earn my Pre 1500 badge.
John,

As it turns out, yes the Penrose Manor House was in my lineage at one time. You can go here: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1196347

then you will see a John Penrose named and then scroll further down until you find HISTORY: You will see again the Penrose's owned this land and through inheritance and marriages of which I have now found two women 1.) (Saint) St. Aubyn, and 2.) Tremayne. So, my ancestors had to have at the minimum some horses to leave Cornwall.

To top that off there is a Penrose, Cornwall England. I will have to research this now too.

I'm Having fun . . .

The Herald's Visitations are often a good place to start when researching noble/gentry families though they can contain mistakes and shouldn't be relied on as the only source if it's possible to find other reliable information.

The Visitation for Cornwall ( see page 366) does have a pedigree for the Penrose family of Sithney with a Jeffry Penrose, who is married to Mawde, da. of John Tremayne, and they do have a son Johannes.  However his son is named Richard and we currently have a William on WikiTree, who isn't mentioned at all.  It is possible that William could also be their son, but at the moment we don't have any sources for him.

John,

Johannes had 3 children. William, Thomas and Richard. William was born 1470 and died 1521. Thomas I have not found anything yet. Richard was born 1471 and died 1542. If these dates are right then Thomas is the last born of the 3. When I started with this where my aunt left off, following the William line panned out going forward to the 1900's when the family left and moved to PA. I have a lot of info I cannot enter on Wiki Tree because I don't have my Pre 1500 badge.

Thanks for confirming things. And I will check out the Visitation for Cornwall.
According to the Visitation, Richard is the son and heir, which means if William existed he either isn't the eldest son, or died before his father.

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