And the propaganda over DNA testing begins

+8 votes
482 views
See this article - 5 biggest risks when "Sharing DNA.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/5-biggest-risks-sharing-dna-140000813.html

I think they are just spreading propaganda and trying to scare us into stopping the testing.
in The Tree House by Robynne Lozier G2G6 Pilot (928k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith
The article isn't propaganda, it is reasonable and accurate. What genetic testing company do you work for? I am 79 on Medicare and have an excellent secondary insurance. I have not committed any crime so I really don't care if AHIP or Law Enforcement has access to my DNA, or anyone for that matter.

 

On the other hand the this article validates my ongoing concern, which I have posted many times, that 23andme and ancestry.com are sharing your genetic information with investors and partners, if not third parties .

And who would these investors and partners be, but insurance companies who use the info for underwriting, if not your personal info (yet) but the macrodata that they glean from the population.

I do not believe that Family Tree DNA is guilty of this, but I wouldn't put it past their partner My Heritage
If insurance companies really thought DNA testing was helpful, they would just demand your blood or saliva and test you themselves.
Current Law (GINA) prohibits the use of DNA by insurance companies, but that which Congress passes and the President signs can be, and as current events demonstrate, will be reversed. Do we not have the best government that money can buy?

There are other ways than taking a Swab, to profile a persons DNA, they have access to medical records, including those questionnaires we all fill out in the doctors office or hospital, in which they ask questions about families health history and even lifestyle.

Even names, race, ethnicity  and occupation have marked tendencies towards some diseases.
Nothing new with any of this!

Go down the list of your matches on GEDmatch, and look at emails and user names- count up how many have *pick a town*PD, *pick a county*sherrif in either the match’s name field, or email. You don’t even realize how many profiles and trees on ancestry or other family tree sites are the work of law enforcement trying to locate someone! Why would you be upset if your DNA results SOLVED A SERIAL RAPIST/MURDERER MYSTERY???? You should be HAPPY! What??!!! Everyone complaining about how unsafe the world is, but don’t want to help stop crime, without even having to speak with anyone? Just upload a tree with your results! Cops can do the rest. VIOLATED IS BEING THE ONE WHO WAS RAPED AND KILLED, not the person who has a list of biological relatives and a tree (or not) to solve a crime case! It is the exact same methodology used as locating biological parents who chose to remain anonymous , legally, in the courts, but are now being stalked down by the same family they legally requested to be anonomous from, with no legal way to stop it. The argument being that adoptees have a right to know. So do the families of murder and rape victims! I’m down to help! I know I didn’t run around California having a good old time, so who cares?

When you take your test, read the fine print before clicking “ok” and submitting. ALL of this is covered by your testing company.

We all know that big pharma is a big scammah, so if they get more tally scores of regional health data from another company to up the cost of certain meds, what difference does it make? They are still ripping everyone off either way. Guess who’s in bed with pharma on everything? Insurance companies of the unhealthy variety...none of them care about you as a person, they care about how much money there is to be made off of all the people, so that info aides in the scam.  We can pretend like they are going to stock up on preventatives that work and vaccines to cure with that info, but who still falls for that anymore?  If you think your dna is still “not in the system”, think again! The very doctors who are drawing your blood at the office or lab or hospital are the very same doctors who prescribe the meds from the pharmaceutical companies, who also work with health insurance companies to get paid, and not once ever, have I signed a legal form or waiver, or anything stating that the doctor and nurses who just took that wine bottle full of blood from me for a basic test are going to keep the results private!!! Who requires those results in order for the doctors to get PAID???  Insurance companies! Silly beans! That $30 co-pay isn’t paying for that Mazaradi in the back parking lot in the spot assigned to the doctor who has never laid a finger on you! They already have what they need from you without your permission!

Look at the history of 23&me, and all their legal drama over the years, FDA interventions, etc.? When choosing a testing company, didn’t anyone research each company before choosing which test?

If you have public anything on line, or have your identification in one database or another off-line, you are not private anymore. DMV, the doctors, the bank, credit cards, social security/welfare/CPS offices, government, the freaking video rental place, all the different places you pay monthly bills, like water and gas and electric utilities, ANYWHERE, is not private! You are just TRUSTING others not to abuse their priveledge of having access to your personal information, starting with name and phone#, add address and mail a monthly check for payment. Add credit card #’s and your ssn, add personal flare, like income, members of household, edu, ethnic background, and someone could literally become you! But NOT with DNA!!! You can’t fake being you, unless synthetic DNA cloning is 100% perfected, but even then, the doctors already took that from you with no permission anyway! How arrogant would one need to be to assume that one’s genes are even worth replicating on purpose anyway? I piddee da foo who wants to recreate ME! Ha!  

Drink from Starbucks straw, discard in waste receptacle. Anyone who can pull DNA off that straw, has now taken it to do what they like with it! Once you have removed or discarded waste from your home or person, it is no longer a possession of yours. It’s fair game! I’d rather not read anything at all that I’m saying “ok” to in a legally binding document through a reputable enough genetic testing company with good intentions, than have someone going through my old leftover (patient name recorded perfectly on vial sticker) blood vials in some lab 12 hours away, or by sorting through the juicy garbage from my bathroom once a week to obtain whatever is needed with no legal protection at all, any day! Trust me, just because one does not agree to submitting a genetic sample to whatever authorities have required, it will be gotten anyway if it is needed for whatever reason.

Testing with a DNA testing company seems to be about the ONLY way you can even be semi-legally protected upon submitting genetic info in the great scheme of things! Everyone! Test! The only way to really knock this empire out of the everyday user access status is when politicians start having their extramarital illegitimate secret children popping up and causing all kinds of scandal that would jeopardize future political positions. THEN there will be all sorts of “concern” about privacy and attempts to kick genetic testing for family lineage confirmation down into the “underworld”. It will remain afloat though, pharma pays for, and sure does enjoy this info! Profits all around! Yeah! Testing will simply be marketed just to learn your ethnic background if you test. The money is not in offering a test to the public at a reasonable rate, the money is where all the genetic accumulative data is. Put a kilt on it, call it German, but pharma and whatever else types of companies needing Golden statistical biological data are who is paying the bills in the case of all these companies.

Song for fade-out?

PropapaaaapapapaoomamowmowpropaGandamowmowmow... (to the tune of Surfin’ Bird by The Trashmen)
I do need to add, your genetic markers for specific diseases are not public on ANY of these sites. GEDmatch takes the file obtained from your testing company, and literally does exactly what the testing company did- hand you a list of DNA matches, add some tools to work with, and then you still have to figure out how you and a match are related! It is time consuming beyond all reason, even for the most professional, qualified, and educated people. THIS is what law enforcement is using to locate a perp, they are doing the EXACT SAME WORK IN EVERY WAY SHAPE AND FORM as you are using it, for exactly the same end- to find the shared ancestor, to figure out exactly who a match is, and how they are related. Law enforcement samples are submitted to GEDmatch and they get the same tools to pinpoint a suspect that everyone else does. What does an adoptee need to do to find parents? Exactly the same thing cops need to do to find a criminal with DNA. They don’t care about hacking into your email account, or even shaming your family, they are trying to locate one human out of billions using a list of matches and chromosome comparing tools, praying that you have a freaking family tree to eliminate too much guess-work. They aren’t coming to your house, grilling you about some distant 4th cousin in Maine, when you live in California. Worst thing might be them sending an email template, and not saying why they are really contacting you.  It’s not worrisome or privacy invading in any way, shape, or form. Unless, of course, you did something that is frowned upon and YOU are who all the months of comparisons and triangulation leads them to, and you chose to use your credit card and pin # as your fake name in your profile so that once they find you, not only do you now have to submit another sample to be 100% positive, but they can use your fake name to treat themselves to a steak and lobster dinner afterwards for a job well done.

At least with dna tests, they tell you that you have genetic markers that MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE THIS DISEASE ALSO SHARE, it does not say that you have a disease, and cannot be used as a diagnosis. The diagnosis comes from a doctor, who turns right around and informs the insurance company, who then can turn right around and NOT PAY FOR TREATMENTS, if they so please. There are legal loopholes threaded tighter than a native basket made of straw set in place for the ease of getting out of anything they want. My favorite is medical insurance through work! Ha! That’s all good and all, but what if you are so sick you can’t work, and lose your job? Ooopsies! Happened to my mother who worked at the HOSPITAL!!! She got cancer, not related to work, couldn’t work, lost her job, and now, because her illness was non-workrelated, and since she no longer was employed for the company, she no longer had medical insurance to cover CANCER AND DOCTORS, SURGERIES, OR MEDICATION! Being without employment doesn’t help to pay those bills or keep stress levels down during times when you are about to die either. So, really, best to skirt the system, take a dna test to find out if traditional research was right, or that you were actually adopted and made it most of your life without learning the secret, help out some other people who want ancestors solved or cops who want crimes solved, and collect all future copays for your physical issues all totaled up, and pay for a trip to South America. There you can pay for treatment outright, from good, just as qualified doctors, at reasonable rates, without worrying if a good doctor is even on the list of “accepted providers” in your area that your insurance company works with, or if the medication prescribed to you is even covered. If it’s expensive, and there’s no generic, I garuntee you are paying extra out of pocket. Only the worst for our valued clients!

I realized after I said it, that Ancestry already only advertises for ethnicity reports anyway, so if the whole family matching feature from their site gets removed someday, nothing will change marketing-wise, and probably cost-wise too. You get shady, questionable, ethnicity reports for the same cost as usual, while the statistical data still gets sold to whoever is willing to pay for it, and life goes on like always. Good business moves for ancestry, prophecizing a possible legal demise in the future with family matching, and so leaving that out of all marketing gimmicks, and realizing that the information collected from the DNA of millions of people mostly in the US could have a wealth of info that would be most beneficial to the wealthiest companies in the world, and selling it to them, thus making ancestry bigger and richer than any other genealogy website on earth. Smart business, stupid Americans. Unless you don’t care, and know what you are being fed from the biggest feces stirers and fear mongers of the nation (media and “news” reporters) in an attempt to cause collective distrust and fear, and be able to adjust that fear into disgust towards anyone who tries to convince otherwise of the dangers of spitting in a cup vs. spitting in the trash. Then, youze is a smaht Merkan!
Jennifer,

I don't think Family Tree DNA does this from what I have read.  I am one of those that reads ALL of the fine print and there is a LOT to read on this for those who test with Family Tree DNA.  That's one of the things I like about the company.  Also, while researching, I discovered that Family Tree DNA is one of the top 3 that geneticists use for their testing.

I have a cousin that works for a big law firm in Houston, Texas.  After ancestry started doing DNA testing, I told her about all the things that were happening in family research.  She and I have been researching for over 40 years, long before DNA.  She said, "Oh my. The laws have not caught up with DNA testing, but they will.  This is an invasion of peoples privacy that has been previously protected by the law."  I have sat back waiting for the law suits to start.  She was right.  The law is now catching up with DNA.  It remains to be seen what the future will hold.

When I had my dad's DNA tested (before ancestry days and all the adoptees looking for their parents ) I jokingly said to my dad, "Now, we will find out if I have any brothers and sisters running around out there that we don't know about."  He just laughed.  We got NO surprises! LOL!
I do not think that you understood what I said, and it has nothing to do with reading fine print or the integrity of FTNA

Here is the situation:

FTDNA offers two mtDNA tests

mtDNA plus for $89

Full sequence MTDNA for $199

When you order mtDNA plus (or the basic mtDNA test) the results will be reported as your haplotype (ex: "H", "J", "U" etc0

If you order Full Sequence mtDNA the results will be reported as you mtDNA haplogroup (ex: Ha1a or J2a1b3)

Bear in mind that testing out DNA is costly, and they only test out what you order, so the more sophisticated your order the more SNP's they test

FTDNA is not in the business of collecting medical metadata from either DNA or lifestyle. 23andme is in that business, they have business partners and grantors to please, who want that data.

23andme reports out Full Sequence mtDNA, because they are in the business of collecting personal and metadata for analysis, present or future.

There are three kinds of DNA. YDNA which only men have and pass on to sons, also called junk DNA because it contains very little in the way of inheritable DNA associated with propensity for disease or longevity.

mtDNA which contains the "germ" of life, and in which much in the way of inheritable characteristics and qualities are passed on and

auDNA which also contains genetic information.

As a matter of course, it is their business model, 23andme tests out Full Sequence mtDNA, thus they will report your full mtDNA haplogroup (ex: H1a1 or J2b1a3)

FTDNA's business model is strictly genealogical and will only test out your Y or mitochondrial DNA as far as you are willing to pay.

FTDNA gets their income from members and subscribers, not from corporations, universities or insurance companies.

4 Answers

+10 votes

Robynne, I read an article recently that discussed the arrest of that guy in California, the accused serial rapist and murder, and law enforcement’s use of dna. I think the ACLU is sending out warnings about hooking up with Gedmatch and others and the privacy issues involved. It is a little scary.

by Pip Sheppard G2G Astronaut (2.2m points)
I think that DNA tests are a wonderful way to help find criminals. If someone who shares my DNA commits a crime-I pray that my DNA helps catch them.
+6 votes
I think being informed of the risks is a good thing. Then you can make a more informed choice by weighing up potential impact or possible future use of our personal data or assessing whether you even think it is an issue. Putting some further onus on robust policies and security of the companies behind testing will benefit all who use their services. There also needs to be a clearer legal steer. Being a new growth industry I don't think the law has caught up fully with issues arising from this. All in all, I believe it is a topic worthy of discussion and debate.
by Lianne Trevarthen G2G6 Mach 4 (42.9k points)
Did you even read this article? Did you notice that there was not a single actual episode where these things we're supposedly at "risk" of, having actually happened? Or how some of the "risks" that are listed are actually BENEFITS, not threats at all? What do you imagine these companies are NOT doing that should be done, given their perfect track record to date? What law do you imagine is necessary, that doesn't already exist?

These are not legitimate concerns - it's just fear-mongering, for political reasons.
+1 vote

There's a good discussion on privacy and openness over on David Brin's blog, and he discusses it in his book, The Transparent Society .

We need to think about privacy and what it means.  Brin talks about the difference between a surveillance state, where oligarchs own government and the data, and an open society where the data is open or privileged.  See the opening chapter of Transparent Society - the rest is just elaboration of the idea.

Just to add another perspective, another science fiction writer imagined what life would be like if we had a continuous, legal bodycam, set up so that it could only be accessed with difficulty and legal precautions.  

Hominids

by  Robert J Sawyer

Crime?  You're almost SURE to get caught. 

Here's another thought- how would you feel if people went around masked and hooded?  Kinda scary, actually.  When people lived in tiny villages, everybody knew everybody else's business.  Big cities, electronic communication and rapid travel create the illusion of anonymity, but it's bad for us.  Think about road rage and loneliness.

I was a victim of the OPM and Anthem breaches, and it frosts me when my bank or someone else asks for the last 4 of my SSN, imagining that's a SECRET!!  And that it's secret enough to protect financial information.  Bah.  After the OPM breach, you can buy my SSN, shoe size, third grade teacher, and the name of my first dog.

by Peter Liepmann G2G Crew (880 points)
+1 vote

I don't think Family Tree DNA does this from what I have read.  I am one of those that reads ALL of the fine print and there is a LOT to read on this for those who test with Family Tree DNA.  That's one of the things I like about the company.  Also, while researching, I discovered that Family Tree DNA is one of the top 3 that geneticists use for their testing.

I have a cousin that works for a big law firm in Houston, Texas.  After ancestry started doing DNA testing, I told her about all the things that were happening in family research.  She and I have been researching for over 40 years, long before DNA.  She said, "Oh my. The laws have not caught up with DNA testing, but they will.  This is an invasion of peoples privacy that has been previously protected by the law."  I have sat back waiting for the law suits to start.  She was right.  The law is now catching up with DNA.  It remains to be seen what the future will hold.

When I had my dad's DNA tested (before ancestry days and all the adoptees looking for their parents ) I jokingly said to my dad, "Now, we will find out if I have any brothers and sisters running around out there that we don't know about."  He just laughed.  We got NO surprises! LOL!

by Debra Pate G2G6 Mach 1 (17.1k points)

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