need a TAG lookup - looking for source of marriage date (1664) for John Bevan's parents [closed]

Question

Hi! The entry in Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry for the parents of Gateway Ancestor John Bevan is pretty sparse (quoted below), but it does say they married about 1664 and cites Glenn's Merion in the Welsh tract..., which I've just used to determine that John Bevan and Barbara Aubrey married about 1664.

So I'm trying to figure out if any of the other sources have the 1664 marriage date for John's parents also. If not, then I can disregard it as the marriage year for John's parents (which creates a serious timeline problem).

The other sources Richardson gives are "Clark, Limbus, Patrum Morganiae et Glamorganiae (1886): 354. Lyle, Thomas Fam. (1908): 14-18. TAG 39 (1983: 1-2)."

"Jane Richards, married about 1664 Ieuan ap John, of Treverigg (in Llantisant), Glamorgan, son and heir of John ap Ieuan of Treverigg (in Llantrisant), Glamorgan, by Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Richards. He was underage at his father's death in 1630. They had four sons, including John, Gent. Ieuan Ap John died before 1665." (Magna Carta Ancestry, Vol I, p192, BEVAN #20.)

Thanks!

Answer 1

I don't have access to TAG, but I did find the other two works, though neither are much help.

The Limbus, Patrum etc is available at FamilySearch but p. 354, just seems to have the marriage of Catherine Basset and Richard ap Evan of Collenna, and The Thomas Family, on p. 15 has the marriage of Evan ap John of Trevereig and Jane Evan, dau of Richard ap Evan of Collenna and Catherine Basset, but no dates.  It does give Jane Evan's descent from Hugh and Roger Bigod, Magna Carta sureties, but again very few dates and no citations.

Comments

Dates would help a lot.  The Thomas Family book is showing Watkin Vaughan's mother as Eleanor Somerset, daughter of the 2nd Earl of Worcester.  But we show that lady marrying a different Roger Vaughan, who lived 80 years later

Eleanor's husband  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Vaughn-2189

Watkin's father  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Vaughan-187

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Does mention sources later, but they're all secondary

https://hdl.handle.net/2027/wu.89066356478?urlappend=%3Bseq=20

The GT Clark book is the same as the other one, by its subtitle.

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Understatement of the millennium RJ! I mutter "dates would help" a lot!!

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I did see the sources mentioned later, but none of them looked very promising.  The Clark, Limbus, Patrum is amongst them, which makes it look like one of those problems where secondary sources rely on each other for proof, but none of them actually cite any primary sources.

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They probably got it from Browning, who probably got it from Mrs Arthur Dudley Cross of San Francisco

https://books.google.com/books?id=eyik0rO0HlsC&pg=PA451

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RJ - I thought you were kidding! I should have known better LOL. Thanks for the link.

Answer 2

The TAG reference is actually Issue 59, not 39. The section relating to the parents' marriage reads:

"John Bevan was the son of Evan ap John, of Treverigg, who married about 1664 Jane, daughter of Richard ap Evan, of Collenna, an estate if Llantrissant parish, by Catherine Basset, daughter of Thomas Basset of Miscin. The Bassets had been established in Glamorganshire since the fourteenth century. (G. T. Clark, Limbus Patris...)

Comments

Thanks! I need a stronger magnifying glass :D  Richardson has "59", I just misread it.

Given that TAG is citing Clark and Clark doesn't have a date, I think I can safely shift the 1664 marriage date from Jane and Richard  John to John and Barbara. I had posted a comment on John Bevan-62's profile with the following reasoning:

Glenn, in Merion in Welsh tract..., shares information apparently from John Bevan's own writings, that at the end of her life said to him [John Bevan] that they'd been married "upwards of 45 years"... assuming the statement was made in January 1711 (the month she died) and "upwards of" means more than 45 years, that puts the marriage of John and Barbara at about 1664: 1711-45=1666-2 more years for the "upwards of"

Next step ... see if I can't contact Douglas Richardson about it.

Thanks everyone!

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Liz, I know Richardson reads soc.gen.medieval

There may be an existing topic there for this person.

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Thanks Jillaine. I recently joined that group & did look in its archives for information before posting here. I was getting reading to post about this to SGM yesterday when other issues took my time instead (it always takes me a while to craft a post, and as this will be my first post to SGM, I want to take my time with it & make sure I say what I mean to say... seems that lately, my communication skills haven't been up to snuff!).

update: I sent an e-mail instead