Clemens ALBERT EDWARD HOMERTON HACKNEY PLACE OF BIRTH?

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I believe this is my great grandfather ...my name is Valerie Clemens and my grandad was his son Vernon Christopher Clemens
Wrong info on previous comment , this man was my great uncle .

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I'm looking for more information on a relative of mine, Albert Clemens born Hackney 1875. He served in the Boar War and also WWI as a Warrant Officer where he died in battle at Gallipoli in1915, are there any relatives out there?
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Hy this is my great uncle
Hi Valerie...

Thanks for the reply,

Albert Clemens was my Great Grandfather he served in both the Boer War and the First World War where he was sadly killed in action at Gallipoli in 1915. At the time of his death he held the rank of Warrant Officer (Company Sergeant Major) .. I have his Army Service Records and his  medal from the Boer War period in which he held the rank of Sergeant, but still sadly have no photograph. My late grandmother who was Albert's daughter did have a photo but it was lost  after she died back in the early 1980s, it would be great if I could find a photograph to show my father who is now 85 years old (Albert's grandson) while he is still around .  If you could assist me in any way in relation to this, I would be extremely grateful

Best Regards

David

My Contact Details....

 David Cole 28 St James Gardens Doncaster DN4 0LH

Tel 07570811701

or you could send me your direct e-mail address and I will contact you
Hello David,
I`m Val`s brother Phil. Having served as a member of the armed forces for 40 years (Royal Engineers - RE`s) I was very keen, like yourself, to find out what I could about my Great Uncle Albert (my Grandad`s brother). If you have found the same detail forgive me for repeating it. I was fascinated but not surprised to see that Albert was a private acting sergeant major. I have come across this a number of times, including a few in the RE`s, and I`m sure the significance of such rapid promotion is clear to you. Albert`s inscription is on the Helles Memorial at Gallipoli , a place, sadly, that your great, great grandparents (my own great grandparents) would never have been able to visit - like so many of the relatives of the fallen in the Great War. Having recently visited a memorial to my maternal grandmother`s brother who was lost in the 2nd World War I was keen to know whether anything existed in the UK apart from at Helles for Albert. I have some further detail/images that you may have already but I am happy to send them to you.
Dear Phil

Thank you for getting in touch with me.

I was just wondering if you had your great uncles service number because the information you have given me doesn't quite tie up with what I have and I know that there were 2 Albert Clemens killed at Gallipoli and they both came from the same area.

One was a private in the London Regiment, service number 1974 and my great grandfather was a Company Sergeant Major, service number 8470.  He served in the Boer War (1899-1902) as a Sergeant and re-enlisted to fight in World War I.  Because of his age (40) and vast experience of combat he was given the rank of Company Sergeant Major and approximately 12 months later he shipped out to Gallipoli, where sadly he was killed in action in 1915.

Albert had a daughter called Louisa who married Richard Cole (my grandparents) and they in turn had my dad (Albert Edward Cole) and as there is just your dad between you and your Great Uncle I believe that you would be the same generation as my dad (who is in his 80's), does that fit with your genealogy?

Regards

David Cole
David,  

I also knew about the other Albert Clemens but, nevertheless, my facts are correct and that my great uncle (my father's uncle) is indeed the same Albert as your great grandfather. The age issue is not what it seems since my father was 44 when I was born (I'm 64 now) so I am not surprised that your father is in his 80s! I have a number of images relating to Albert each showing his part regimental number as 8470 and that he was in the Yorkshire Regiment. I also have the war record showing Albert (again 8470) as a Private when killed with the 6th Battalion of the Yorkshire Regiment on 21 Aug 15. It is very likely that when he re-enlisted, his previous service record of Sgt was taken into account and that at some point he received accelerated promotion from Private through to Coy Sgt Maj in a very short space of time on the basis of past service, maturity and, sadly, the heavy losses around him. The most likely reason he is listed as a Private in the war record, but in family memory and on the the Helles memorial as Coy Sgt Maj, is that his acting rank was never recorded as Substantive (or permanent). After a war, servicemen holding substantive rank often reverted to their former, substantive rank or sometimes maintained the rank after hostilities; in Albert`s case it simply meant that he never had such an opportunity and still held the rank of substantive Private when he was tragically killed. I am even more proud of him for that reason; he belongs to a very small group indeed that proved able to rise from Private to Coy Sgt Maj in less than a year and is listed as such on the Helles Memorial. Finally, did you know that his name is recorded on a church panel in St Nicolas' church Bolton Colliery where the Hackney Clemens's moved to? I also have a photo of my grandmother Francis Annie Frater (who married my grandfather Vernon, brother of your great grandfather Albert) with her sister, who I am told, may have married Albert. If that`s true, then the picture is of your great grandmother. Perhaps you may know about this – if she was called Frater before she was married then the link is true.

Best wishes

 Phil
David,

 

For Bolton Colliery read BOLDON  - early morning typo!

 

Phil
Dear Phil

I suppose it must have been quite chaotic at the time which is why our records differ, but there is little doubt that it is the same person, which means that we are distantly related.

I have managed to get a picture of the battalion, but cannot tell which one is my great grandfather as I have no pictures of him, so if it is possible for you to send me the images that you have, I would greatly appreciate it as I know my dad would love to see a picture of his grandfather.  I don't know about the possible link to the Frater sisters but it has given me a new avenue of research so thank you for that.

Regards

David
David,

Glad we've cleared that up and nice to know that we are not too distantly related. If the connection is correct, then we share grandparents/great grandparents etc in the Frater line which I have family tree info on as well. Happy to send you some images if you can let me know your Email address - not possible to send on this means otherwise.

Regards Phil
Dear Phil

My e-mail address is colescollectables@sky.com, thanks for everything I hope you have a nice Christmas and a Happy New Year and if I come across any further information I will certainly let you know.

Regards

David

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