Why do the “experts” at ISOGG ignore my query?

+5 votes
My Y-111 DNA results are extremely unusual because of the 19 deletions. My sons and several others have similar results in the same locations. I wrote to five “experts” for help or advise. One responded and  wanted to know the context of the 2 results I provided. I explained to him what I was concerned about and asked for feedback. NO RESPONSE.

Yes, 19 deletions lead you to believe that there was an error in processing and must not be taken seriously, so it is not worth investigating. The assumption by experts that these are erroneous make me feel like my questions are not worthy of their time. I feel like Einstein must have felt when his theories were crazy. The results I have gathered from from about 15 others lead me to my belief that these markers are accurate and will assist me in identifying family.  The results are accurate. Since my sons results match mine perfectly and they were done at different times wouldn’t you think there must be validity?

I am looking for a person or group interested in genetic genealogy with an open mind to the possibility that my results are worthy of further investigation. Up to know I feel like the “experts”  cannot be bothered with questionable results. It would have been a nice gesture to reply to my query. The silence is deafening!

Rather than ignoring weird results, consider the possible rewards that could result. Getting more Prowse/Prowse’s to take the Y37, Y67, or Y111 would prove ancestry.

The location of these deletions on the Y chromosome are in such a location that fertility is possible, I have children to prove it. But if the deletions occur a little closer to the center of the gene fertility becomes an issue.

Experts, please communicate!
in WikiTree Help by Ran Prouse G2G5 (5.6k points)
edited by Ellen Smith

3 Answers

+5 votes
Hello Rand,

I encourage you to find distant Prouse male relatives to take a Y-DNA12 (or more markers if necessary) test in order to estimate in what generation(s) the deletions occurred.  YSeq might be a less expensive option if you only need to test specific STRs.  Those deletions can be used similar to how “Y-500” type testing is used to try find a shared direct paternal line ancestor in a genealogical timeframe.

I’ve read that it is not all that uncommon for males to have missing chunks of their Y.  It only matters when it those missing parts relate to fertility.

by Peter Roberts G2G6 Pilot (605k points)
edited by Peter Roberts
Thank you for your response, Peter.

I am already doing what you suggest. I will be going to a Prowse Reunion in Tiverton this year and hope to get some volunteers. Since the trait is so rare it will help to connect from several states, Canada and England. The task is daunting because it is rare and our pool is so small. The trait begins to shoo in the Y37 test. The 12 is useless!

I believe this trait goes back hundreds if not thousands do of years. Found several people who match, but with different surnames. I am working to find a common ancestor. I have found Prowse’s living in close proximity to The matches with different surnames. I am on the right track.

My query was about a person who matched 18/19 deletions, but had 28 mismatches of other alleles. 18/19 match to the deletions points to a common ancestor, but the 28 mismatches point to no relationship. I was searching for some thoughts on the matter. The others who have a 0 to 4 genetic distance to me have an 18/19 or 19/19  at h.
I posted an answer on the Facebook forum, but I'll repeat it here. Your deletion leading to null results on some STR markers is rare but not unique. It has happened in different haplogroups. Your remaining STR markers are likely to be quite different when the mutation occurs on a different haplogroup background.

+8 votes
ISOGG is a non-commercial non-profit organization, supported by its members. Members, expert or otherwise, are under no obligation to respond to your query. There is a list of possible consultants on the ISOGG website if you want to purchase services to review your results.
by Lynda Crackett G2G6 Pilot (633k points)
You are right, they are under no obligation to respond.  On the other hand the very unusual DNA results might spark some interest and curiosity to investigate.  I understand now that they are not interested.  I thought there might be someone out there to at least provide direction.  You don't know what I asked about, but if you did you might better understand where I am coming from.
You might find someone who is interested in discussing your results on one of the facebook groups for genetic genealogy.
Thank you, good idea!
+6 votes

Anomolies in one person's DNA wouldn't be in the charter of the ISOGG. They exist to "Advocate for and educate about the use of genetics as a tool for genealogical research while promoting a supportive network for genetic genealogists" (from the ISOGG.org webpage). An individual might have an interest, but the organization has a broader perspective in how to use DNA to solving genealogical problems. Your Y DNA would potentially be useful in proving/disproving some lines but falls outside of their mission since it is so specific.

by Doug McCallum G2G6 Pilot (447k points)

I can understand what you are saying, but unusual results could have broader ramifications. In my opinion your comment "the organization has a broader perspective in how to use DNA to solving genealogical problems" falls within the scope of ISOGG.  I know of several other deletions that are different from mine. Yes, we are a small minority.  Our results result in Y12 results and rarely any other. The larger group has lots of help while we have few resources. Because of our small numbers genetic genealogy is much more difficult, while we have a marker more distinct than most others.  Ignoring the minority is shortsighted in my humble opinion. I hope to find people who think outside the box and make contributions that the larger group is overlooking.

I appreciate your input!  I hope there are others out there who are interested in unique genealogical results.  I truly believe there will be a day when genetic genealogy groups will value the unique and unusual. Imagine what you would do if you found results similar to ours.

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