What do we know about Nancy Moytoy aka "Raven" "Chota"?

Question

The existence and relationships of Nancy are in doubt. She is "documented" in Shawnee Heritage by Don Green, which is known to contain inaccuracies.^[1]

If you have sources or evidence to support her existence and the relationships to parents, spouse, children, please discuss them here.

Comments

Nancy Nanye-hi Wolf Clan, (fictitious Cherokee identity)

according to Geni                            

About Nancy Nanye-hi Wolf Clan, (fictitious Cherokee identity)

NOTE: Please see Cherokee Genealogy and History Project. This person is a fabrication and no historical evidence exists of her.

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Lexi, thanks; where will we find the Cherokee Genealogy and History Project? 

P.S. We avoid using other family tree sites for sources; if they cite their sources, we check those out.

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Never mind; found it; it's a Geni.com project, perhaps not unlike WikiTree's Native American project. And I see that our very own Kathie Forbes has written a wonderful introduction to it:

https://www.geni.com/projects/Cherokee-Genealogy-and-History/12

and here's the link to the Geni profile of fictional Nancy:

https://www.geni.com/people/Nancy-Wolf-Clan-fictitious-Cherokee-identity/6000000001387468797

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Raven Chota was her husband, and they had a son named Attacullaculla Moytoy Cherokee Civil Chief

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Rhonda we are looking for sources, documents, not the regurgitation of information found on the internet or published in the Don Greene books. Do you have an actual document that can support your claim?

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I have not just an oral history of it, but also have it from the Mormon site on FamilySearch.Org My family goes very, very far back to the Mayflower, and even before it. I have many native ancestors, not just Nancy. I cannot provide a document because there is not one, but have listed some of my family from my tree from the Mormon website, which is the most reliable in the world.

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I’m sorry, but the LDS site is no more reliable than any other user-submitted information. These “people” were fabricated in the 20th century by individuals with a personal agenda.  There are no documents in existence to support these claims.

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The LDS/Morman family information is not always accurate as the information is submitted by church members that may or may not have documented research to prove the information they have submitted.  Some of the family information submitted on my family is complete fabrication.

Answer 1

Been looking for any sort of new sources for you, so far I'm coming up empty on her, and genealogically on Moytoy.

I did just find this very old book that may be of interest, involving the Marovian Missionaries and the Cherokee Nation 1700's not sure what years I've only scanned it, if you use the search option for the book- words like -  baptism bring up many pages within the book, also Moytoy (Emperor) is mentioned as well.  I think if Tellico were searched it may come up as well.

here's the link - https://archive.org/stream/historyofmoravia00schw#page/24/mode/2up/search/baptism

hmmm, i typed in just -  Nancy, and up popped a bunch of pages, the first is of a Nancy Vann - a half breed and her cousin

https://archive.org/stream/historyofmoravia00schw#page/24/mode/2up/search/Nancy

Answer 2

The Moravians did not arrive in the Cherokee Nation until after 1795; their mission was set up about 1801.  Their records are an excellent source for information on Cherokee families in the early 1800's.  The Cherokee Nation is paying for the translation and publication of the records of the Moravians among the Cherokees and several volumes have already been published.  They are not available on line, although many excerpts from the diaries and various publication are digitized.

There is NO documentation for any Cherokee families before the Moravians arrived.  Anything you find on line that claims to document Cherokee family relationships before the Revolutionary War is at best speculative and is usually complete fiction.  There are virtually no women mentioned in any historical records.  Once in a while you will find a historical record where a chief mentions sons or nephews, but that's it for genealogy.  "Nancy Moytoy" is a myth.  There is no 'Moytoy' family, just a couple of men by that name or title in historical records.

Comments

So Kathie, what shall we do with this profile?

Other than putting warnings all over her, shall we also detach her from her spouse and her daughter?

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I would detach her from any family members and put the disputed family story inthe bio saying something like: many family trees list “Nancy Moytoy” as the wife of White Owl and mother of Su-gi, but there is no evidence that any of these people existed.  If you have documentary evidence or sources, please post them here.”

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Should I disconnect White Owl Raven from the daughter too?

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No evidence for any of these people, so I wouuld recommend leaving them all unconnected and with the purported connections in a bio statement.

Answer 3

I found this information that may be helpful.

"Following the treaty concluded by Byrd and Randolph, many warriors rallied to the British standard, under such famous old chiefs as Attakullakulla (Little Carpenter), Outa cite (Judge Friend), Scollacutta (Hanging Maw), Ooskuah (Abraham), and Savanukeh (The Raven), and rendered valuable services in defending the extensive frontiers of Virginia, and also in the expedition against Fort Duquesne"1

1. Goodpasture, A. V. INDIAN WARS AND WARRIORS OF THE OLD SOUTHWEST, 1730-1807. Tennessee Hist. Mag. Publ. by Tennessee Hist. Soc. 1918, 4, 3–49. Pg.9

" The first division fell to the command of Dragging Canoe (Cheucunsene), of Mialaquo,57 who has been called a savage Napoleon;58 the second was entrusted to Abraham (Ooskuah), of Chilhowee, a half-breed chief who had fought with Washington on the frontiers of Virginia;50 and the third was under the Raven (Savanukeh), of Chota, who had served in the same campaign, but with little credit, having been detected in undertaking to palm off two white scalps brought from his own country, for trophies of an unsuccessful scout against the French.60 At this time there lived in Chota a famous Indian woman named Nancy Ward. She held the office of Beloved Woman, which not only gave her the right to speak in council, but conferred such great power that she might, by the wave of a swan's wing, deliver a prisoner condemned by the council, though already tied to the stake.61 She was of queenly and commanding presence and manners, and her house was fur nished in a style suitable to her high dignity. Her father is said to have been a British officer, and her mother a sister of Attakullakulla.62 Her daughter, Betsy, was the Indian wife of General Joseph Martin. She had a son, Little Fellow, and a brother, Long Fellow (Tuskegetchee), who were influential chiefs."2

2. Goodpasture, A. V. INDIAN WARS AND WARRIORS OF THE OLD SOUTHWEST, 1730-1807. Tennessee Hist. Mag. Publ. by Tennessee Hist. Soc. 1918, 4, 3–49. Pg.27.

The jstor link to this pdf is:INDIAN WARS AND WARRIORS OF THE OLD SOUTHWEST, 1730-1807. (Copyright, 1918, Albert V. Goodpasture.)

Comments

I also found this book which shows a Nancy Ward was aka 'wild rose' daughter of "Tame doe" and Oconostota and married Capt. Sir Francis Ward. And Atta Culla Culla was her uncle.1

1. King, E.S. The Wild Rose of Cherokee, Or, Nancy Ward, "The Pocahontas of the West": A Story of the Early Exploration, Occupancy and Settlement of the State of Tennessee : a Romance, Founded on and Interwoven with History by E. Sterling King - Books on Google Play; University Press, 1895;

Book link

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Nancy/Nan ye hi Ward is a well documented Cherokee.  Her Wikitree profile is Cherokee-59.  She has nothing to do with the mythical “Nancy Moytoy,” and was not the daughter of Oconostota or the wife of Francis Ward.  Her mother is commonly called “Tame Doe” although little is known about her other than her clan.  King’s book is a fictional account of Nancy’s life and has led to many of the myth’s associated with her.

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 Ok so did Nancy/Nan ye hi Ward have a daughter named Betsy and does she have a profile. I am trying to figure out all this mess with this false info everywhere. And could Besty have had a daughter named Mahala. I am not sure if any of the information i have here is correct. I am looking for a Mahala that was married to John Watson(Watts) I have her mentioned in his will.Mahala ( What i have so far)

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Yes, Nancy Ward’s daughter is Betsy Ward, Ward-14337.  No, she did not have a daughter named Mahala.  Betsy had two daughters, Nancy Martin and Rachel Hughes.  I’m not seeing anything to connect Mahala Long and John Watson to the Cherokee.  There is no John Watson on the 1835 Cherokee census and Rutherford County, NC was well outside of the Cherokee Nation.  Nancy Ward’s descendants are very well documented; her children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren are in Wikitree.