Henry Lightfoot trouble with member

Question

This is Dona Floyd Kimmons Floyd-2256 and I have worked for four weeks on one of my family trees, Henry Taylor Lightfoot and someone is trying to remove parents that I have worked on for 4 weerks, how can I stop people from interfering with me when I am trying very hard to do my work?

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

Comments

Dona,  I appreciate the work you've done and published your work for your family.  However, unless other people can access your book at their local library or purchase a copy on-line people have no way of knowing where the documents can be found that prove the statements in your work.  As a Lightfoot descendant, I want to know where the documents can be found that, i.e., prove a marriage, estate, etc. so that if I wish to obtain a copy of the record I can.  I was a member of the Lightfoot Family Association when it was active and there is information in the Lightfoot Book that came from information in the Lightfoot Family Association newsletters and there are mistakes in the book.  My 3rd great grandfather, born in 1784, was listed in a published family history that has his ancestry going back to the 1500's.  When I began checking the documents listed in this family history I discovered that the original documents had not been quoted in their entirety and what had been left out of the published family history lead to documents that proved my 3rd great grandfather was not even related to the family he had been listed as being a son.

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Hi, I do appreciate your question. First, my book is located at the Jasper County Library and the Jasper, Georgia Chamber of Commerce, and the Ft. Worth Library, and the Texas State Library. But since my Williams book was published in 1974, I did not have DNA data given to me by Morgan/Williams/Stewart, a massive DNA study they did on this family done by many people, and not available to me until 1985, so that study is not in my book. It is non-debatable, and it was done by REID/WILLIAMS/MORGAN/GREER/SANDIFER/BEARDEN/MCKENZIE/Y.JOHNSTON/ HALCOMB/  MCGUIRE/ CAMERON/  AND STEWART on the male and female lines of this family, because of Royal Lineages, on these families and all of their descendants down to me, the current generation.

In their  study, it is listed, Henry Williams Sr. b. Dec. 12, 1740, d. abt. 1818, and he married Ann Lightfoot, b. May 8, 1743, d. abt. 1825, and their son Lightfoot Williams, b. December 2, 1769, d. abt. 1832, and all of their descendants. In the online marriage records of Jacob (Lightfoot) Williams, son of Henry "Hukey" Williams and Ann Lightfoot, that marriage record of Jacob Lightfoot Williams is in the U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900,  which states:

Jacob Lightfoot Williams born North Carolina

Spouse: Mary Whitener, b. 1754

That record is online.

My book does not contain this DNA data, because mine was published in 1974, and I did not get this DNA data until 1985, but I added it to my book, which you can get from me, if you really want to, I can make you a copy of it, I have it on a computer disk, it is just expensive to copy, when you can order it free from any of those libraries, which I mentioned, who I am sure would loan you this book, called "The Williams Family History Book", author Dona Vance, published 1974, copyrited, Washington, D.C., or you can get it from me if you want to. I am not a German, and I am just having difficulty understanding German sources, but their are other people who maybe help out, like Mary Richardson and Adam Davis, other Profile Managers on the Profile of Lightfoot-71, Henry Taylor Lightfoot, and their DNA is also on all 3 profiles, the same as mine is.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

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Geneticists are often naive about genealogy.  I don't know what sort of DNA study you could do in 1985, but anybody trying probably got their genealogy from LDS Family Group Sheets.  Nothing else would have been practical.

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I put new sources on the Profile of Peter Weidner today, Weidner-23, please view them, they are online also to view.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

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There is an image of an old bible record but it does not name Henry's parents.  

You can link to them from the bio but without sufficient evidence, they need to be detached as parents.

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I do not intend to detach the parents of Henry Taylor Lightfoot, if you would have looked at their Profiles, all of our Lightfoot DNA is on both his and his wife's profiles. Also, on the Bible records, these were from their own ancestor located in Arkansas, she did not put her records on Ancestry or anywhere else, as far as I know, she contacted me personally and told me what was in those Bible records, her records are not on websites, they are in her own possessions.

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Dona,

1. It would be great if she could make copies of those bible records, including the title page of the bible (which has the publishing date on it) and send those to you; then you could share them on wikitree.

2. .Since your own book is available in such a limited fashion, please quote the specific section of the book, including the source(s) you cited within it.

Bottom line: we need some sort of evidence that explains the case for Henry's parents.  I hope that someone more familiar with DNA analysis can explain to you what's needed.

Thanks.

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Dona,

It is always very important when obtaining copies of Bible records to also obtain a copy of the page of the Bible that names the publisher and the copyright date.  Having the copyright date of the Bible tells you whether the dates in the Bible were written at the time the event (marriage, death or birth, etc.) occurred or were written years later and subject to great error.  For example the copyright date of the Bible is 1840 and the marriages written in the Bible occurred in or after 1842 would indicate that the date of the marriage was very likely recorded in the Bible when the event occurred.  However, a Bible with a copyright date of 1900 that has a marriage records for 1870 and before 1900 are subject to error as the dates were written many many years after the event occurred.  Even the DAR in submitting Bible records requires the copyright date of the Bible be submitted with the record being used a proof.

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Thank you for your comments. I have contacted my DAR Regent for the online records of my DAR ancestors, and she just sent me the link today,, and I will check this all out on these DAR records on our own online DAR website, available only to a member  of the DAR.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

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Dona,

As a DAR member and former Chapter Registar I'm very familiar with the access to DAR records.  As a chapter registar it was my responsibility to assist prospective members in getting the appropriate documents to prove their lineage for proof for membership and having their applications and documents in the appropriate order for submitting for membership.  There is a charge for down loading copies of the papers and any proofs.  Also, the older the applications are the less likely there will be any documentation attached - I've run into this problem in the past.

Answer 1

Hi Donna,

While I understand your frustration. Wikitree is about Collaboration. Misunderstandings and disagreements are common with profiles from hundreds of years ago. What I would suggest is contacting the member who is wanting to make the change and evaluate the sources they have and the sources you have used. Together I'm sure you can come to an agreement . If you feel you cannot talk with this member I would stress seeing "Problems with Members" and see where it leads you.

Comments

Thank you for your answer to my question. I added sources today to that Profile, and had worked on this family for 4 weeks, the sources were very extensive, and I was still working on these Profiles, many of my sources were in German, and it took me some time to work on these profiles, because they involved sources found in Baden, Baden, German and Switzerland, as well as North Carolina Quaker Meeting Records of Pennsylvania, and various Wills, some foreign. These were German and Swiss immigrants who came to Pennsylvania and they are in my family, it just took me some time to type all of this into the Profiles, which I did today, so thank you for your help.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

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I don't see the sources. What specifically is your source for the claimed parents?

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I put new sources on Peter Weidner's Profile today, he is Weidner-23.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

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But what are the sources for the parents of Henry Taylor Lightfoot since he's the profile in question?

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Jillaine Smith, I had many merges yesterday, I am still working on this family, and I will get to this as soon as possible, thank you.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

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Any progress on posting sources that support the identity of Henry Taylor Lightfoot's parents?

Without any, we should detach the parents.

Answer 2

It says on the profile of https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lightfoot-71 that you should not add parents unless you have primary sources as extensive research has not found documented evidence for any known parents. I cannot see any primary sources, such as birth records for his parents.

Please read about sources and collaboration:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Sources

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Collaboration

Comments

Thank you for your answer on my question, Lightfoot-71. I spent 4 weeks working on these profiles, it was still a work in progress. The sources were extensive work, which I had not put on the Profile yet, but I did so today. Many of these sources were in German, thus my problem in finding them, but I did so and spent all morning long putting in these exensive sources.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

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Make it easy on yourself.  Any sources you need for this profile will be in English.  Born in America to parents born in America will not likely have German language records.  If there are, post them "auf Deutsch".

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Beall, if the existing profile is correct about 'no known parents,' how do you know Henry's parents were born in America?

Donna, it seems you claim to have succeeded where many before you failed.  Well done!  But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  Bring on the docs!  That's what WikiTree is all about.

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For whatever it's worth, as I have found researching my grandmother's Pennsylvania German ancestors, early German-American Pennsylvania church records were almost always in German.

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I found my German Ancestor records from Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, in the U.S. Quaker Meeting Records, 1681-1935, and it was in English, and it said William Lightfoot, residence, Chester, Pennsylvania, Spouse, Mary Lightfoot, these were in the Uwchlan Monthy Meeting, the yearly Meeting: Philadelphia Yearly Meeeting, Pennsylvania, Meeting County: Chester, they were in English.

As far as German records go, they are found in the Germany, Lutheran Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1500-1971, which listed Anna Catharina Weidner, born Jan. 17, 1760, baptized January 20, 1760, Place: Pirmasens, Bayern (Bavaria), Deutschland (Germany) and it listed Georg Weidner, Catharina Weidner, Parish, Pirmasens: Author: Evangelisch-Reformierte Kirche Pirmasens (BA, Pirmasens), Film Number 488523.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

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I have listed my sources so many times to Mrs. Sullivan, and I cannot seems to satisfy her, so I referred her to the other Profile Managers listed on the Profile of Henry Taylor Lightfoot (1776-1845), Lightfoot-71, who are Mary Richardson and Adam Davis, maybe they can help her, I cannot seem to be able to do so. Their DNA is the same as mine, and they are all listed on all 3 Profiles of Henry Taylor Lightfoot and his parents,, the same as I am. Our DNA all shows up on all 3 Profiles.

I referred her to them, maybe they can help, I am not too good at German.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256

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I put new sources on the Profile of Peter Weidner today.

Dona Floyd Kimmons

Floyd-2256 he is at Weidner-23

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Dona, you may all be descended from Henry Taylor Lightfoot but that doesn't explain the claim about his parents.  Please provide the source for the identification of his parents. Thank you.