Seeking marriage records for Pre 1829 Birmingham, England.

Question

My GGG Grandparents Charles Waldron (1801-1848) married Ann Lawley (Born circa 1803) in Birmingham, England. We believe at St Thomas around 1822. Ann’s Father was Thomas Lawley. (Ann remarried in 1851). There is no record of the marriage on Ancestry or Church OLDS genealogy. Parish records commence from 1829 in Birmingham. Where would I find pre 1829 marriage records. Any suggestions please? Thank you.

Comments

If you are not entirely certain which church they used then you might find this list of Birmingham churches useful when looking for alternatives: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WAR/Birmingham/churchlocs

St. Thomas was not consecrated until 1829 so the marriage would not be there.

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Hi Lynda thanks for that information. Their children were baptised at St Thomas and Charles is buried at St Thomas. My list of the Churches show consecrated dates from around 1829-1830’s. Have almost exhausted every   avenue to search for this marriage. Appreciate your interest and input. Thank you.

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I would suggest your next step is to find out which church was used locally before St. Thomas was consecrated. Also consider where were Charles and Ann baptised? They may have married in the church where one of them grew up, most likely the bride's church.

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How sure are you about the birth dates you have for Charles and Ann and how were they sourced? Familysearch has a couple of possible candidates for Ann's baptism. One in 1798 and the other for a Mary Ann in 1802. Both at St. Philip's. It may be worth looking at those and if you think one is correct try looking for a marriage at St. Philip's. 

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Hello Lynda, thank you for your comments. We have already looked at Ann Lawley 1798, as well as Mary Ann, Hannah, Annie etc. and none appear to be connected to my Charles Waldron. Even searching the marriage through Charles didn’t help.The 1841 census confirmed what we knew of them and their children.  Even the children’s birth only show Ann (no surname) Charles and Ann’s son William (my GG grandfather) migrated to Australia in 1847.papers which came out with him confirmed his parents as Charles Waldron and Ann (Lawley) Waldron. Myself and other cousins have been searching for sometime. I  used a professional Researcher, who couldn’t locate Ann or the marriage. After Charles died in 1848, Ann remarried in 1851 to Theodore John Harper. Their marriage certificate registered her Father as Thomas Lawley. Incidentally there are 2 Charles Waldron whose spouse is shown as from Ann around the same time. We have elevated one of them.

Did Charles and Ann legally marry? We believe so.  It’s all a mystery and one of the challenges when undertaking family research. Both the Waldron and Lawley families were from Birmingham.

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Have you considered whether one of them may have been non-conformist and tried to avoid marrying in the Church of England?

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Hi Lynda, not really sure what you mean by this question? Not an angle I really know about? If they didn’t marry C of E could this be why we can’t locate the marriage. Charles burial was at St Thomas, Birmingham. Appreciate your interest. Thank you.

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With the introduction of Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1753 the only valid marriages in England were performed by the Church of England, with the exception of Jews and Quakers. This legislation applied until the introduction of Civil Registration in 1837 when rules were relaxed. As a result people who were non-conformists, e.g. Methodists or Presbyterians may have pursued the route of Irregular Marriages. I have not seen many examples of that with couples from Warwickshire, but in my part of the world, Northumberland, it was fairly common in the early 1800s. Many of the toll stations on the border were used as marriage locations and the documentation of the ceremonies is unfortunately thin and is not online. Examples of locations being Coldstream Bridge, Mordington Toll and perhaps the most famous at Gretna Green.

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Have just been reading about non-conformists. This is now an area to look at. While our families have been prodominately C of E maybe something happened which lead to a marriage outside the C of E influence and why we can’t locate records. You have been most helpful. Thank you.

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Good luck. If you had been researching a Northumbrian couple it would have been the first thing I suggested, but maybe less likely for Warwickshire. Still worth considering though if you cannot find them anywhere else.

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Thank you Lynda. We have assumed they were married in Birmingham, maybe they weren’t. Charles was a gun smith - maybe he travelled? So many unanswered questions!  Take care.

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I do see a marriage a Ann 1831,but with different last name,not Lawley.

How do you have Ann Lawley ???

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When my GG grandfather William migrated to Australia, as a child exile, he had papers which had his Mothers surname before marriage as Lawley. Her remarriage in 1851 had her Father listed as Thomas Lawley. Thank you.

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Denise, Could Ann have had a previous marriage before Charles?

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Ann’s DOB varies on the Census records so could be around 1803. Her eldest child was born in 1823. What we know Charles Waldron was her 1st marriage. We have been told Record keeping was not compulsory around this time in England. Not sure if that is correct. Thanks.

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OK. So there was no point in looking for a Waldron-Lawley marriage then. What we need to do is look for the first husband’s name and then the marriage between Charles Waldron and Ann X.

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Hi Lynda,we also tried searching via Charles Waldron also. It didn’t give us any result. However new eyes looking my find something. Thank you for your interest.

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"What we know Charles Waldron was her 2st marriage."

Was he her 1st marriage, or her 2nd?

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Sorry Ros, Charles was her first marriage.

Answer 1

I see 2 children born too Charles Waldron and Ann,both were baptised

in Birmingham St Philip,Warwickshire,one 1832 other 1834.Even if i do

not find there marriage.The Baptismal record shows they were married and

in good standing with Church of England.One child Elizabeth Woodard

now married ,ln 1861 Census living with her mom and dad,

Comments

Thank you for your reply. My Charles and Ann children were Charles, William, Thomas, John, Isabella and Harriett. There was more than one Charles Waldron who married an Ann around that time. My GGG grandfather died in 1848 age 47. We are now specifically looking for their marriage. Their eldest child was born in 1823. I appreciate your interest.

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Marriage records at this time in England do not list the parents or the ages of the bride and groom. There is commonly a witness from the bride's relatives so those names might help.

Baptism records might help, as can wills.

   Tim

Answer 2

Australia Death Index ,William Waldron,died Beaufort Victoria,shows

his father as Charles Waldron,mother Sarah, Reg.# 4333

died 1912.

Answer 3

Pre 1829 Church of England records are available on microfilm at Birmingham Central Library. In Birmingham itself there are only two churches. St Martin from 1554 and St Phillip from 1715. I spent one and a half hours looking for Charles getting married. I didn't check the brides.

St Martin was very popular,  I'm not surprised they built more churches. I looked at January 1821 to February 1823. St Phillip (cathedral) January 1822 to May 1823.

No sign of Charles, sorry.

I did find Issac Waldron marrying Maria Cox 21st May 1821 at St Martin. Both previously unmarried. Witnesses Joseph Wright and Phebe Cox. Source Marriages 1819 to 1821 St Martins Birmingham [volume 18] page 302 entry 904.

Regards

Tim

Comments

Hello Tim, I very much appreciate your efforts in trying to locate my GGG grandparents marriage. It is a real mystery to us, and have almost come to the end of options of where to search next.  It is also the “brick wall” to be able to go further back in this family research. Birmingham has so many Waldron’s with Christian names repeated in generation after generation, we need to ensure we have the right descendants. The frustration of research, but this happens. Still live in the hope our research is successful. Again many thanks. Denise