The 'Plantation of Munster ' in Ireland and the 'Puritan Great Migration' to America

Question

Hi all,

It has being written that the same families migrated to both areas over the same period of time . If you look at the family names as in my case Abbott, Green, Smith etc. If we could find some proof of this by looking into the DNA of the descendants this would solve many issues and complete many trees, in my opinion. There today I was looking at a Thomas Abbott and Elizabeth Green part of the Puritan Great Migration , now if they came from Somerset/Dorset/Devon in England as my ancestors did this would be added proof, because many came from the same areas in England and went to Ireland and the Americas. Just putting it out there, it would tie up a lot of loose ends.

Regards John Abbott-Kelly

Comments

Hi all,

Here's an interesting link for anyone who wants to know more about the 'Plantation of Munster' and some of the names involved. Here is a link you can share to others who may be interested. ...http://www.paulturner.ca/Ireland/Cork/HOB/hob-1.htm

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Unfortunately, Paul Turner passed away last year and his website was shut down. The link that you provided no longer works.

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Sorry to hear that may Mr. Turner 'Rest in Peace.

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The content of the web site  might still be findable through archive.org

Answer 1

M910713 gedmatch is for my dad. But 3? Other branches of colonial smith feed into this line. The Green we have would be a Jane Magdalena Green Bolling from like 1564, Yorkshire?

Comments

I also think we need to be careful, between Scottish plantations to Wales and Ireland, there might be as well migrations to and from the Netherlands, Calais, and Germany, dependent upon Cromwellian influences and certain religious movements such as pre-baptist.

I believe Smiths of Nottinghamshire and Warwickshire were affected by Cromwell, but am uncertain where the on again off again Baptist Mennonite smith without a religion or country hailed from before coming to America :). (Supposedly started baptist movement but changed and another man took over while 'exiled' to the Netherlands, tried to be with Mennonites in America but not accepted?

And like with the Tangier Smith line, caution with which Jamaica they were in, the island or that part of NY lol

Notes: Georgian- America, Eastern Block area, or time of King George?  York- England or Pennsylvania?

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Autosomal DNA (the kind of DNA we upload to Gedmatch) is not going to identify anybody's 17th-century ancestors, much less 16th-century ancestors.

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Various Gedmatch results could lead to a common ancestor. All we need is someone with almost complete history of their family or family tree, without any doubt. It is possible.

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Gail any of your family end up in Ireland in the early 17th Century?

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The only Irish that I have that is even close, thus far, is 18th. Oliver Woods b 1710 Antrim, and his spouse Martha Railsback.

The only other dates back to 1347, Margaret Fleming Bassett of Slane, Meath, later Cornwall (m William Bassett I believe).

There are questions regarding Robert Blair though, as near as I can make out, he stayed in Scotland primarily while his brother in law Hamilton was a minister in Ireland.

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My Abbott's have had dealings with the 'Blair's, who came from Scotland to Ireland. One of my Abbott's married a Blair and through this association he try to claim all the lands of my ancestor Captain Charles Abbott ( buried in Westminster Cathedral) and hero of the 'Siege of Gibraltar , the case went to court, I've read the transcripts and the case went on for about 20 years. There was over 2000 acres in County Cork, Ireland involved.Charles resided in London and he died within a week of getting sick and there were doubts to the authenticity of his will, which the Blair's took advantage of , to their detriment as they held it for a few years and then lost it again. Not a name like by the Abbott's.

Regards John Abbott-Kelly

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I believe many ancestors have had disputes, hence USA.  My lines seem to have all been fighting with different lines somewhere along the way since the dawn of written history. Thank God for forgiveness, or geez would Americans ever buy Volkswagen or Hondas and would German and Japanese ever buy American goods?

Interesting aside: king of France, one of the Louis, on again off again at war with England. But he and his English cousin still exchanged gifts for things like birthdays.

There are cases in American history that might seem that the parties were at odds but in actuality were necessary for the benefit of all in the present and for prodigy. Some cases over years, were almost hilarious.

Did you consider that their feud might have kept others from family estates, or greedy within? What time frame, and what was transporting in the religious, political, marriage, real estate sociology of the time?

Also please consider our convicts coming to America, falsified or minor theft accusations rather than heresy executions?

Would I dare ask, 'who's on first'? Probably before your time, sigh

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You have some good points there Gail.But what really got me was 'Who's on first ', ha ha got ya...the great 'Abbott and Costello.'. Remember watching them as a kid and I also seen a documentary about their life story. A great comedy duo.

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Hi Gail,

Did an autosomal One-to-one comparison with your Dad. My Gedmatch kit no is A472986 .Largest segment was 4.4cM. Total half-segments 52.9cM(1.476 Pct) and 18 shared segments and 52.486 Pct SNPs are full identical. It's distant but their the ancestors I'm after for my family tree. Hard task.

Regards ,

John Abbott-Kelly

Answer 2

I mentioned on a different thread that Puritans emigrated to many different places than New England, but the PGM project focuses on New England only.

The Ulster plantations imported tenant settlers, which in many ways was a contemporary competitor for labor with Virginia and New England.  Also, officially half the settlers were supposed to be from Scotland, and most of those were Presbyterian. It probably was not a friendly place for Puritans so I doubt many went there first. Various Dissenters probably went to America and conformists (or opportunists) went to Ulster or Virginia.

The tide changed to Puritanism after the Cromwellian conquest in 1653, and then flipped again to the Conforming church after the restoration and Great Ejection.

Also, it would be difficult to prove England->Ulster->New England since the records are sparse, these names are common, and I would guess the settlers in Ulster were not very literate.

Comments

A number continued on or eventually left Ulster for America and were known over there as Hill-Billies and were mostly illiterate. The British crown just wanted to plant protestants in Ulster no-matter what their background .

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This inspired me to look up the derivation of the term.  Fascinating. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillbilly

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The Munster and Ulster plantations were in different waves.  I have ancestors from the Munster plantations but nothing yet about their origins in England. They were, however, while in Ireland and in Canada, staunch CoE, nothing to indicate if they had Puritan leanings.

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The Munster Plantations were late 1500's to early 1600's  and weren't very successful .My mother's side of the family the Abbotts' came over from Devon England in 1612 when my 9th great-grandfather was 20years of age and he was given land in County Cork. I live in County Tipperary so we moved a bit. They were not puritans at any stage , Church of England or the reformed church as it was known but some of the family became Quakers in the latter part of the 1600's and I think at least one went to America with his daughter in 1701 (William and daughter to Pennsylvania).

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Tipperary! That's where my Hodgins ancestors were settled, scattered in various locations - eg Dromineer and Borrisokane. They were among the earliest -1932- to migrate to Canada, where they are well-documented.

There is also a connection with the Prittie family, about which I am dubious.

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Lois,

I think I went to school with one of your relatives here in Nenagh, actually he still lives in Nenagh just down the road from me, one of the hodgins. There were a couple of hodgins families in Nenagh not sure whether they were related, but possibly . My grandfather came from Dromineer and I can go back to the 1600's in Dromineer with family because a local historian wrote a book and my family are in it.Hodgins also had a big drapery store in Nenagh on the main street called Pearse Street, it only closed in the late 70's early 80's when I was a kid and I remember being in it with the old pulley system where they would put the dockets and send 5gem to each other in the shop, I think it opened in the 1800's .Dromineer is 5 miles outside Nenagh. There could be a connection with the Pritties through marriage ,There were a lot of landed gentry in this area and I have heard of the Prittie family they would have come over with Oliver Cromwell in the 1640's. See you just don't know who your gonna talk to.

Cheers,

John.

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I would very much like to get hold of that book.

I know there were Hodginses in Nenagh, but not much about the ones who remained after my lot went off to Canada.

I don't doubt that a Hodgins may have married a Prittie, the question is which Prittie was her father.  ALL the Pritties appear to have named their eldest sons Henry, so there'd be many possibilities.  But the Hodginses were tenant farmers descending into penury through shortage of land, and the Pritties were rising into the nobility.  I can't believe w/o evidence that he was LORD Henry Prittie, as other sites would have it.

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Lois,

Here you are 'Estate Record: Prittie (Lord Dunalley)

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=2229

If you want more info just Google 'The Prittie Family of County Tipperary, Ireland.

John.

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Nice!

I -think- I remember my Mary Prittie was born on the Dunally estate, but that doesn't prove paternity.