Do I have to use the Find-a-Grave template if I use Find-a-Grave as a source?

Question

I have again been Data-Doctored.  I thought it was bad enough that a Data-Doctor added the template, then another Data-Doctor removed a space from the template and a third Data-Doctor changes an a to an A.

Now I have a well designed profile where I include death dates and locations only sourced by Find-a-Grave for both the profilied and her husband including links to Find-a-Grave.  I find no reason to insult someone by discussing the accuracy of this source.  One learns that some sources are better than others and if I could find a better source, I would include it.  After I was Data-Doctored I ended up with 4 links to Find-a-Grave instead of the two I provided.  I changed things back to what I had before.

Comments

Have a FAG template with a lowercase "a" will flag it as 843 Missing template (spelling) .

Having space after the pipe trips 571 FindAGrave - Link without Grave ID .

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Aaron, you are wrong in both assumptions. This will not produce the errors. Findagrave is automatically corrected by EditBOT and the space is no longer a problem. I wrote the template, so it works also with a space.

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My bad, I was thinking about Find a Grave, which is an error. 

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I don't often see the FAG template name with spaces. If it is often used, I can tell editBOT to take care of it.

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There are quite a few right now in 843.

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That is quite a few. I will add it to corrections.

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Done. They will be corrected tomorrow.

Answer 1

The reason for the template is two-fold. It makes things easier if they change the link but are nice enough to keep the same memorial number. It also has 2 forms that can tell the scan that makes the suggestion report to either ignore a wrong memorial that belongs to a relative OR to use ONLY this memorial since it is the correct one and ignore the rest.

{{FindAGrave|######}} basic template.

{{FindAGrave|######|sameas=no}} for memorials of family members for reference.

{{FindAGrave|######|sameas=yes}} For the actual memorial of the profile.

I prefer to use the citation, delete the http//www. in front of "http://www.findagrave.com" to avoid another error, then use the template.

Running your suggestion report would spot them for you and cut down on our workload. ;)

Comments

Terry, the confusion is the word "IMAGE" IS the image link. It just doesn't explain it.

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If I were to use an US Census as a source, I would probably use FamilySearch and copy their citation.  This would allow someone to go to the FamilySearch page describing the Census and allow one to then look at an actual page.  If I were setting this up I would include a link, generally in the text, to the actual picture.  This saves time for the reader if they want to see for themselves.  The citing information shows where the actual source can be found.  Giving a link to the picture is a courtesy.

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My example combined the 2. You did a source and then an image link. I set it up so it is all in one spot. It happens to match your first entry in the example profile. Check it.

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Steven.  I added that to the profile.  From my point of view, I want thw image/picture to be part of the narrative, not hiding below as part of the citations.

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Then I would suggest at minimum to put "Image Link" so people don't think images failed to load?

Although personally it makes the profile look cobbled together. IMHO. We all have different styles I guess.

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David. You said When writing a bio, my preference is to write "This person died and is buried at someplace."  And you would put the citation in a footnote. 

I would add  "This person died and is buried at someplace. You may click here to see a picture of the cemetery and his headstone"  As she/he is reading and they would like to look, they may. Quickly Easily.  Instead of using 14 words as above, I might just use image. 

One thing I have learned in this discussion is to be more clear as to what image represents.

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I use the citation button when writing a bio to offer a fast validation to what was written as it provides me a quick way to footnote.  An ex:

Bob was born on January 5, 1876 at someplace and his parents are Joe and Barb.<ref>link to his birth cert with proper citation included.</ref>  He lived in location A and location B of someplace from 1880-1900.<ref>Census record image of location A with citation</ref><ref>Census record image of location B with citation</ref>. Story continues...

These references are then clearly indicated directly under ==Sources== as they are collected by the <references /> tag there.  

This is my understanding of  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Styles_and_Standards and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Style_FAQ and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Editing_Tips

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Steven, could you clarify what this looks like?

"I prefer to use the citation, delete the http//www. in front of "http://www.findagrave.com" to avoid another error, then use the template."

So you would copy and paste the citation from FAG in the sources section, edit out the www part and then add the template after and insert the memorial number?  All in one source entry.

And would that would be the same if you want to embed the entire thing in between <ref> </ref> in the bio?

Is this correct for a FAG for a son attached to a father:  <ref>Find A Grave, database and images (accessed 08 August 2018), memorial page for Peter Carrow (Mar 1854–4 Nov 1903), Find A Grave Memorial no. 157739113, citing Walnut Grove Cemetery, Methuen, Essex County, Massachusetts, USA ; Maintained by M K (contributor 46864291) {{FindAGrave|157739113|sameas=no}}</ref>  

Where the www part is deleted, the grave memorial inserted into the template.  Template follows citation.

I don't mind marking false errors in my own suggestions list, but as a Data Doctor, I might not see the profile again so I'd like to do it correctly using the citation and the template.

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That way definitely won't error. Some people also put the template in place of " Find A Grave Memorial no. 157739113" within the citation itself. That works too.

If you have one "yes" you don't need to worry about the "no". If you have multiple "no"s you need it for each unless you have a "yes"

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Where can I find these and other templets on wikitree? Thanks

Answer 2

Greetings Norm,  

I had though the template was just an easy suggested manner that allows someone to see what might be posted on that site for the corresponding profile.  We know that there have been some url changes in the past and fortunately staff can direct to this source on profiles that use that source template.  The 2 references you make to that site from the profile: one goes no where and the other goes to the index page.  The template when correctly used goes to the memorial cited.

Comments

Just FYI - the 2 links/images to FaG pages in the timeline appear to work just fine and take you to the pages for the intended memorials. The link on #23 takes you to the FaG source at the bottom of the profile and the link there takes you to the FaG main page.

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The first image link goes to Holmberg's FaG memorial

And the image link on Cathrina's death info goes to her FaG memorial

Is Image to vague to be useful?

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They appear to work just fine IMO

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For some reason 21 and 23 just reloads her WT profile when I click them?

Now I see the coding is in "image" and not actually tied to the source I.D. at the bottom under sources.

Everyone has their own preferences.  Hopefully, you shall be able to keep up with that director if FaG changes urls again.

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They are linking to the FaG bullet at bottom of profile.

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You don't have to use the template, but as David suggested, if FaG changes their web file/link structure in the future, the template can be updated so that any references using the template will all be corrected at once. Any references that aren't using the template would have to each be manually updated.

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Why do you use '''Image''' repeatly? Never seen anyone do that.

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Terry.  Have you looked at what the Images show.  When dealing with Swedish genealogy there is sometimes too much information.  Through SVAR links to actual pictures of record books are available.  I have seen profiles where many of these pictures are included and I find them distracting.  My choice is to include these links in the text at the appropriate place.  If you are unfamiliar with these church books, it might be interesting to follow the story through the pages.  Sometimes I will add more than image, like Marriage application.  I want my profiles to be easily checked and to be as helpful to someone else.

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No, because there is nothing that makes me think there is an image. The number is there so it links to below, where a persons natural inclination is to go there to see the image, would think that is where the link to the image will be. Just saying how it looks to me, when scanning the profile.

Sorry have not had time to go back and look at the image since finding out there really is an image.

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Terry. I have put all the image links in the citations. Go back and see if in now makes better sense. I appreciate your interest and this WikiTree way of clarifying.

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Now that makes sense to me and the natural inclination was to click on image. And what a great site for you!

Great job

Terry

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Terry. With so much information available forSwedish profiles I like use an indented timeline. First column for location, second column for what happens directly to the person (marriage, childbirth) and the third column for things that happen to someone else ( death of a parent, child).  I usually like to add where the person fit into their family structure.  Thanks for the kind words.

Answer 3

When digging around some profiles in my lines, I happened across a short piece of code that is not a template, per se, but shortcut code that probably will continue to be sourced and active, time immemorial (where 8s must be replaced by the memorial ID - I chose 8s because of their kinship with infinity). Please note that the code snippet turns the memorial ID into a nice, succinct statement about the Grave ID when placed in the == References == section (or anywhere in the dialog box, but I think it makes the most sense to put it in Refs, unless it is being discussed, elsewhere).

{{FindAGrave|88888888}}

Comments

someone didn't read the existing answers?

That IS the template being discussed.

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And my question: Do I have to use it?

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I would like to cut to the chase with your original question... no!

The caveat is that on a wiki, anything that I add may be changed in the future by someone that feels their methodology is more clear, precise, or just the latest trend in styles and sources.

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Or more precise, you don't have to use it if the memorial matches the profile. If it doesn't then it just causes errors. It is much better in THIS case if you DO use the |sameas=yes" on the end of the one that DOES match as the error checker will then ignore the rest.

Answer 4

I do not think you need to use the FindAGrave template, however, if you don't use the template, and error record might be prepared. I embed the template this way.

I have been using the following format for the past couple of weeks and am VERY happy with how easy it is.  At the bottom of each FindAGrave memorial is a Citation for your Sources section.  I copy that Citation and paste it into the == Sources == section.

Then I copy the basic WikiTree template: {{FindAGrave|

Then I highlight the words, "Find A Grave Memorial no. " and past the {{FindAGrave| words.  Finish by entering two wavy brackets after the memorial #:  }}

The final form looks like this:  *Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 07 August 2018), memorial page for Samuel Parker Smith (20 Jun 1805–17 Feb 1867), {{FindAGrave|122567692}}, citing Lake Grove Cemetery, Holliston, Middlesex County, Massachusetts, USA ; Maintained by Jacki Earp, Weymouth, Massachusetts (contributor 47755371) .

And on the public view, it looks like this: 

• Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 07 August 2018), memorial page for Samuel Parker Smith (20 Jun 1805–17 Feb 1867), Find A Grave: Memorial #122567692, citing Lake Grove Cemetery, Holliston, Middlesex County, Massachusetts, USA ; Maintained by Jacki Earp, Weymouth, Massachusetts (contributor 47755371) .

Comments

ok, discussed above but I just put the template at the bottom to avoid confusion. Also, you will probably cause a 571 error due to that pesky findagrave.com link you left active.  Also, if it isn't the actual memorial of the person in the profile it will cause a 572 error.

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Kitty.  Your answer has led me to add {{FindAGrave||Sameas=no}} to my citations.  We will see what happens.

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I guess I wasn't as cute as kitty. LOL But if you have the one that matches the profile and do a |Sameas=yes then you don't have to worry about ANY other references to findagrave on the whole profile.

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I am sure you are at least as cute as other WikiTreeers.  I changed one no to yes.  This discussion has been helpful to me.  It is one of the reasons I like WikiTree

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ok, double checked and you did pick the right yes. You also put the no on the other one. If you have a yes, you don't need to worry about any others. You did however forget to add the memorial ###### between the ||. I fixed it for you.

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So Steven, are you saying the format should be:

The final form looks like this:  *Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 07 August 2018), memorial page for Samuel Parker Smith (20 Jun 1805–17 Feb 1867), {{FindAGrave|122567692|Sameas=yes}}, citing Lake Grove Cemetery, Holliston, Middlesex County, Massachusetts, USA ; Maintained by Jacki Earp, Weymouth, Massachusetts (contributor 47755371) .  

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I did not forget. I left it blank!

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If you leave it blank then you create a 571 error. Why would you point to a null memorial?

And kitty, only use the YES in that case if the profile is actually Samuel Parker Smith as well. Otherwise, if it is for wife of Samuel you would make it a NO and remove the https://WWW. part of the link and just make it from findagrave onward.

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See my comment on Juha's answer.

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Norm, {{FindAGrave||Sameas=no}} will produce multiple errors. 84x for invalid usage of template, and 571 for link to FAG without the ID. Such usage shouldn't be used.

Answer 5

I dont use any FAG template.

Somestimes I just use a text link in the sources - like this.

Burial record - FAG - and then the link.

Other times I use the Family Search citation link.

Answer 6

Norm, I agree with the other answers here that you do not need to use the FAG template.

I however strongly disagree with your statement that "Now I have a well designed profile". Those repetetive "image" links make the text anything else but well designed. You don't have to make things overly complicated to look like an experienced genealogist.

When you have your sources straight, just make one citation including the link like I have done on this bio I wrote a couple of days ago. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bucht-9 The narrative is much easier to read this way.

Comments

I agree with you about those "image" links, Juha. I can hardly look at the profiles made that way. Hurts my eyes.

It was me (with some trepidation) Data Doctoring the FindAGrave links with the template, so that I could include the sameas=no

Catrina Wilhelmina is my first cousin four times removed, which means the error came up in generation 8  of the suggestions for  profiles related to me. I like to keep that list clean for several generations more - makes it easier to see any new errors.

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To protect Eva's eyes, I have put all the images in the citations.

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Juha.  Thank you for your comments.  I have now put all of the images into the citations.  Would you consider if better designed at this point.

"You don't have to make things overly complicated to look like an experienced genealogist."  I do take exception to your inference that I am making this overly complicated to look like an experienced genealogist.  If you have personal comments about what I do, a personal note is more appropriate than G2G.  It is important in a profile to be as accurate as possible, as through as time permits and to try to assist others in constructing a good tree.
 

Answer 7

Just adding my 2 cents: I don't think you "have" to. I prefer writing out a source with a link, rather than the template, because I just prefer the way it looks. I think it's a completely personal decision. Right now FAG is switching sites so all the old links are being forwarded to the new site. I say, go with what feels more comfortable for you.

Answer 8

I find it easier to use the template, but I embed it into the citation that is given at the bottom of each find a grave memorial. I also like to include a note about whether or not a tombstone picture is on the memorial. If there is a discrepancy on the memorial I would also note that in [ ]. For example one of your sources provided in the profile that you posted for find a Grave would be:

<i>Find A Grave</i>, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 08 August 2018), memorial page for August Holmberg (13 Jan 1841–30 Oct 1898), {{FindAGrave|125016194|sameas=no}}, citing Lebanon Lutheran Cemetery, Kanesholm, McKean County, Pennsylvania, USA ; Maintained by John K. Pierson (contributor 47421208). [No tombstone picture submitted]

The template would take me directly to the memorial which is extremely helpful to me when I am on my tablet and clicking on a source won't let me open it in another tab on my browser... pretty new to the tablet there might be a way to open up a new tab for these pages, but just have not found it yet.

Answer 9

I checked your profile and the error 572. The profile was not automatically matched due to a considerable difference in the name.

You can check the help for https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:DBE_572

I corrected the page as it should be by the use of sameas parameter. This way it shouldn't produce the error.

Since sameas=yes is used on the page, sameas=no will have no influence on error report, but it is good to use it to be exact.

Comments

So if I use the template, I will not get an error.  If I do not use the template I will be hounded by the Data-Docs!

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That is correct. I see you also removed the Image link, but template can coexist with it.

Optimal way is to use citation provided by FAG, 

Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 08 August 2018), memorial page for Cathrine W Holmberg Larson (1844–19 Jul 1912), Find A Grave Memorial no. 71007525, citing Lebanon Lutheran Cemetery, Kanesholm, McKean County, Pennsylvania, USA ; Maintained by CABrown (contributor 47000639) .

and just correct the marked text to with optional |sameas=yes parameter when needed. That is the least work and all info is there.

Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 08 August 2018), memorial page for Cathrine W Holmberg Larson (1844–19 Jul 1912), {{FindAGrave|71007525}}, citing Lebanon Lutheran Cemetery, Kanesholm, McKean County, Pennsylvania, USA ; Maintained by CABrown (contributor 47000639) .