Help with DNA Confirmed

+6 votes
I've read all the DNA confirmation help pages but I'm still a little bit confused. So I've taken an AncestryDNA test and have matches where I've been able to confirm a relationship (the test takers themselves not being on wikitree) Lets use an example of a second cousin once removed where our most recent common ancestors are A+B. Ancestry predicts 3rd cousin.


     C           G

D                    H

E                        I


So F is me, E is a parent of mine, D is a parent of E etc. and I is my second cousin once removed. What relationships can I confirm with DNA based on this match? I understand I can put "match based on AncestryDNA match with myID and her second cousin once removed." in the DNA section of the profile. (with no name attached for privacy reasons)

I assume I can confirm E is the parent of F on F's profile, D is the parent of E on E's profile, C is the parent of D, and G is the parent of H (if H has a profile).

But I don't think I can say anything really about A+B, our MRCA. All I can say is that there is a sibling relationship between C and G. As C could have parent A in common, parent B in common, or a totally different set of parents X and Y.
in WikiTree Help by Tanya Quinn G2G3 (3.6k points)

1 Answer

+3 votes
Your 2C1R (Labelled I) cousin really needs to be on wikitree inr order for you to be able to claim a DNA confirmed line. You have to have the connection. You cannot confirm DNA ancestry without the triangulation and relationship showing up on wikitree.

Others (on wikitree) have to be able to see that connection as well.

Like any hypothesis, it has to be able to be tested by others and if the I Cousin is not on wikitree, you cannot confirm a triangulation.

My mother was adopted and if you look at her ancestors tree, you see that she has no father.

BUT I have entered her fathers family on wikitree, BUT they are not connected to my mother because I just need that one final little proof - which one of the three brothers was the real father. I had chosen one of the brothers for a specific reason, but any of the three could be the father.

And until I get a DNA test from the brothers children. I have NO DNA confirmed ancestry. Once those DNA test results are done, THEN I can make that final connection for my mother. But until then, she has to stay fatherless.
by Robynne Lozier G2G Astronaut (1.0m points)
Thanks I'm just not quite sure how things work in the context of privacy and living people. Do I need to ask I if it is okay to add him/her to wikitree, find out his/her email address and then get them to okay their profile being there? Or can I have a private profile in which case I would not want to have a name in the link?

Also want some way of documenting relationships I have confirmed without become the crazy creeper stalker lady too. Sometimes a match does not answer a contact but other family recognizes the name and knows the relationships.

I have another 3rd cousin or closer match where we actually have genealogical relationships through 3 different MRCA. I suppose I can really say nothing about any of those relationships because any one of them could be false, our shared DNA could be through 1 or 2 of the other MRCA?
You do need their permission and technically they need to choose to join wikitree  - but they can join as a family member and not as a full volunteer - in order for their profile to be created. You are then added to their trusted list.

You can ask them to join wikitree or to do a DNA test, but if they say NO then you must leave it, You should not start pressuring them into doing something that they dont want to to do.

You could add their profiles yourself if you so choose, but the profile would go unlisted and private to everyone except you and the admins. But you cannot add their DNA data if and when they eventually do a test. They must add their own DNA details.

Have a look at my younger sisters profile as an example. she joined wikitree as a family member and she is interested in doing a DNA test, but first she has to save up the cash since they are somewhat expensive. Since she is a family member, she can easily add her DNA test details once she gets her results.
Robynne, since the GDPR, that's no longer the case - it's acceptable to  identify a living relative in a DNA confirmation statement by their initials only with no test ID, if they're not a Wikitree member.

Re the original question, my understanding is that you do confirm both A and B, as the DNA confirms the paper trail. I don't know if that stands if you are doing a more distant triangulation. But you're right, the DNA confirmation help page is unclear on this.

That sounds like what I remember from discussions in the last few weeks. They updated the help pages on this, but it almost seems like as many questions have been raised as have been answered.

Ideally, you really want all parties on GEDmatch and WikiTree, of course, but it seems like that's unusual to be able to get. Yet it's the ONLY way to properly prove what you're claiming so anybody else can look it up and verify it.

It sounds like they're not really requiring that. On the one hand, that's dealing with practical reality. On the other hand, it puts the confirmation on the same basis as a published genealogy that reports on what family members told the author when he contacted them - you're asked to believe they're honest and competent.

It sounds to me like they just want the initials, due to the GDPR. It seems to me like the person should also be identified with their relationship to their closest living relation in the line, but I'm not sure if that's even OK. For example, while you're saying "I" (initials only) is a 2C1R, you would think it would helpful to it to say that they were also a child of "H" (if "H" is deceased). But does that count as "additional identifying information" in violation of the privacy rules? I'm not sure.

Since this is a 3C or closer, it is NOT what they call a triangulation. In THAT case, and they're less rigorous about it. I don't think you even need to get them over on GEDmatch so you can identify a segment. The easiest criticism of the help page criteria is that it sounds like a GEICO ad ("save up to 15% or more" - which literally could mean ANY amount onf savings, or none at all). It says something like that it has to be "approximately" at AncestryDNA's "3rd Cousin" level (which is from 90cM to 200cM, BTW). Now there's only just certain levels, and they're all just cM intervals, so what they really need to do is say that the match has to be at least "X.cM". What they have in this regard is literally meaningless - 3Cs can go all the way down to 6cM on Ancestry DNA.

Anyway, since it's not triangulation, I guess they have a bit more faith in the paper trail, and just assume that if you have a paper trail to A+B than chances are that you really ARE biologically related to both A & B. Or maybe they figure that the higher cM count that you're seeing is from multiple segments, and thereby very likely to have come from both gt-gt grandparents. But, again, they don't really even give a required cM level, or number of segments, last I saw.

It'd be nice if they shared WHY the criteria is what it is. As it is, it could be a few random cronies of unknown qualifications, getting together in a cozy little corner of cyberspace and making decisions based on either their own personal experiences, or using a Ouija board - for all I know!

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