End of Free space page used as templates

+10 votes
538 views

Free space pages are not allowed to be transcluded on other pages.

We need to check them and see if some of them needs to be converted to a template.

Space pages are used 12695 times. For pages with a lot of usage, I will program EditBOT to correct the usages.

4330: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:ArkivDigital Too complex for External Link Template

2.553 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Kingsman_ONS Candidate for External Link Template

329 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Owen_County_Cousins Static page

454 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Lemi_syntyneet_1896-1910  Static page Space:Lemi has a few variations similar to Space:Henkikirja.

2000+ https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Henkikirja_Viipuri_1900 Static page Space:Henkikirja has a few variations similar to Space:Lemi.

110 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:The_Burritt_Family_in_America  Maybe a candidate for External Link Template

For this I will not make any processing.

73 SPACE:LEMI RIPPILAPSET 1808-1847

68 SPACE:PEDIGREES FROM THE PLEA ROLLS 1200 TO 1500

66 SPACE:LEMI KUULUTETUT 1847-1879

65 SPACE:NELSON-3486 SOURCE TO-DO

63 SPACE:OCLC-608752607

63 SPACE:PIERPONT-94 Y-DNA

57 SPACE:BOOKLET: LAZARUS WEBB AND FAMILY

51 SPACE:OCLC-3530764

And pages with less than 50 usages will be added to 843 error.

This are just my quick ideas. owners of  the pages should come forward and explain the usage and we will see what to do.

in The Tree House by Aleš Trtnik G2G6 Pilot (559k points)
edited by Aleš Trtnik
For my Nelson Source To-Do one, I'll work on removing those. It's about time I sourced those profiles lol.

Go for it, Jamie

Info for all: you can change 

{{Space:Page}} 

to

{{subst:Space:Page}} 

And it will perform one time transclusion/substitution on save.

So it will replace {{}} with the text on the page.

For some reason I am getting a request to make my Name Study page private, which of course makes it less useful.

I notice the following links on the main page which may be the reason I was referred to this G2G question.

These appear to be fine usages of the templates, are they no longer acceptable?


For 1901-2000: {{One Name Study|name=Walker|category=20th Century, Walker Name Study}}
Request by who and why? and Which page?

Lance,

Yesterday the Walker Name Study page was changed and I have started taking steps to correct that situation. To protect the work of our project I suggests that:

1. The PRIVACY level for Walker Name Study  and all it's subprojects should be set to PRIVATE. For details see the g2g post:

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/664105/end-of-free-space-page-used-as-templates?show=664528#c664528

2. Therefore I am requesting to be on the trusted list (co-manager, preferred) for all pages of "Walker Name Study" subprojects.

Thank you,

Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Pat - coordinator of Walker Name Study

This message is from Pat Credit (ftr33@centurylink.net). Click here for their WikiTree profile: https://www.WikiTree.com/wiki/Fuller-5853

Ah.. He made a mistake and meant public.
That post was taken out of it's content. That was for the case transclusion is used.

We have 3000 name studies and I don't remember any being vandalised.

Making it private will make it invisible to all users.

I meant to say PUBLIC and have  sent corrections to everyone. Now the Entire page is set to unlisted and only one person can see it.

See this new g2g 

7 Answers

+8 votes
I have a question

What defines the page as a template, exactly?

I'm looking at Owen County Cousins from your list. It is a page that contains information on a source, and includes a citation method for that source.

Does that make it a template? Because if it does, almost every free space page in the [[Category:Source]] will have to go.
by Natalie Trott G2G6 Pilot (827k points)
Templates are allowed only in Template: namespace. Recently Automated: namespace was added for me, where templates also work.

They are functional also in Space: namespace, but not for ever.

So we have to stop using it.

The page you mention does not use parameters, but is still transcluded to the profile page, which makes it a template.

It puts this text to the profile.

<span id="OCC">Lovell, Rosemary (Faulk). ''Owen County Cousins''. (Harrahan, Louisiana: J. G. Hauser, Inc., 1977). ''For repository information see: [http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/36522034 WorldCat]''</span>

The only thing done by template could be the URL http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/36522034 so it is easily updated in case of change. The rest of citation should be in profile's bio.

so this page also has what you are talking about,right?

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Durbin_and_Logsdon_Genealogy_With_Related_Families_1626_-_1991

On a profile the citation looks like: 

And the link is to the freespace page. I just want to be clear on this before I start changing things.

A page is defined as a template by being transcluded into another page.  So if there's a page that says {{Space:Blah}}, which means "display the contents of Blah here", then Space:Blah is a template.

This page

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Speas-53

is doing that with Owen County Cousins (under Sources, near the bottom). 

(We can't see the content of the Space page, but it's playing games with <onlyinclude> and <noinclude> tags so that what's transcluded is different from what you see.  However, the offence isn't what's on the page, it's calling the page in double curly brackets)

But [[Space:Blah Blah]] is fine or is it the same thing?
That's fine.  That just generates a link.  Transclusion actually imports content.  As with project boxes etc.  They appear as if the code to make the box were actually part of the profile.
Oh, ok, Thanks!! I get it now.
+13 votes
Sorry, what do you mean by "transcluded"?
by Susan Hughes G2G6 Mach 3 (36.5k points)

Transclusion is the inclusion of part or all of an electronic document into one or more other documents by hypertext reference.

Ellen explains it better, below.

When the name of a template or other content is placed between brackets (i.e., {{ and }}) and entered on a page, the WikiTree software adds that content (often including some simple programming) to the page. This is called "Transclusion."
The use of the Unsourced template is an example of transclusion. If you place {{Unsourced|New York}} on a profile, that activates Template:Unsourced, which places an informational box on the page and adds the profile to Category:New York Unsourced Profiles.
Thanks Ellen and Natalie!
+3 votes
You taught me how to switch the image in a sticker to my own logo - via a freespace page.  I had to create xxx Name Study Info, then only put on it

<includeonly>{{#switch: {{{1}}}</includeonly>

|image=Blagdon_Name_Study.jpg

<includeonly>}}</includeonly>

Are you now saying this is wrong? I thought that, since you (Aleš) taught it to me, it was OK.
by Ros Haywood G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
That is ok for now. it is used only from within templates, not directly from the profile pages.

If we ever decide it is not, we will move them elsewhere, but for now it stays the same.

Phew! Thanks for that! I can go to bed now and dream sweet dreams... smiley

Anybody could edit your Space page and vandalize all the profiles that use it.

But what is worse is that anybody could create Space:Foobar_Name_Study_Info, Space:Smith_Name_Study_Info, Space:Whatever_Name_Study_Info etc, and vandalize any number of other name studies without any involvement by their owners.

Well, anbody couldn't actually edit my freespace page - because they're green-locked. cheeky

I suppose that's the price we pay for having a collaborative site with millions of open profiles.  A vandal could come along at any time. surprise

+5 votes
Probably a stupid question, but does that include images added from a free space page?

ie: Baptismal records etc.
by Ronel Olivier G2G6 Mach 7 (77.3k points)
edited by Ronel Olivier
No. Those are added by Image template and you just reference the page (image) in a parameter.
Thanks Ales
+5 votes

Aleš, Has this change been discussed elsewhere on G2G (and I missed it)? Are there technical reasons this change is being implemented? Transclusion of free-space pages is one of many great features of WikiTree.

I think I've used it twice:

  1. Categories don't support a 'Trusted List' or 'Privacy' setting. Transclusion helps alleviate these problems. See Category:Source for the example. (I know about the "Mediawiki Watchlist", but that doesn't address these issues.) I have been trying to use 'Categories' to organize sources, but all of my attempts have been met with objections. This is just the latest problem. I could remove all Categories from source free-space pages, but that would require editing 4,000 pages. (Maybe that is a task for one of your 'bots'. Please, let's discuss this first.)
  2. Copy DNA related information and links.  Example: Edward Austin Pierpont. These could probably all be deleted without too much hardship on my part. (It has been used less than 100 times.) WikiTree does not have a standard for creating a page to explain a person's DNA results. Perhaps we need a standard, and then automatically supply a link on every page where the DNA results appear. (I would rather see more than the testing company and haplogroup/type.)

I know there are other ways of doing these things, but they all seem to be more difficult or just cumbersome. 

(I'm aware of {{subst:Space:Page}}, but that requires manually updating every occurrence when the substitute page changes.  And, AFAIK, there is no way to keep track where the substitution has been used.)

by Rick Pierpont G2G6 Pilot (117k points)

This was decided long before I came to wikitree. It just wasn't enforced in the past. Now we have the tools to prevent it's usage. 

As I understand, the main reasons are:

  • Transcluded texts are not exported to GEDCOM.
  • Unexpirienced users have no clue as to where transcluded text is coming from and how to correct it.
  • With a single edit hundreds of profiles can be corrupted or changed without user being notified. That is the reason, only Template namespace should be used for templates.

1.) I checked the Category:Source and it is the only page using Space:Category-Source, so why the need for transclusion. 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Space:Category-Source

We also have whole hierarchy https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Genealogy_Help that include Genealogy Resources for each country. So why the duplication. I didn't really study what you have on pages but at a first glance it is the same thing.

Also at this point only profiles are being checked. It seems we will have to do categories as well at some point.

Why use transclusion on Category:Source? To add a "Trusted List", so me (and anyone else) can automatically be notified when the page is changed. Can't do that in a Category page without transclusion. Obviously, this is not foolproof, but it helps.

The subject of using Categories for sources is best left for another discussion, and has nothing to do with transclusion.

As I see, you use the Space:Category-Source for transclusion on category page, to display a tree of source pages. and it is the only page using it.

I am preparing some kind of automated lists, that will be updated daily and could be used anywhere. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:CategoryInfoBox_Tables I am still testing what is possible and how to do it as easy to use as possible. Looking at your table, I might add the possibility of displaying a tree.

So look for its release and you will see if you can use it.

If you want to discuss this further, you can also send email to me and explain your vision or goals.

About https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Pierpont-94_Y-DNA I can make Subst for those pages.

Yes, using Subst for those page will work for me. Thanks.

+1 vote
I have this free space page that is copied and pasted onto numerous profiles as a source because it is a write up on the glass and crystal makers and their history.   It is long to put on a profile but the idea was to see how your profile of a glass maker connects in with others in the area.  This makes for a historical context and since glass makers generally married other glass makers it helps expedite genealogical research.   This material is not available to the general public as it is a translation that came from my own library.  

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Translation_of_Jean_Georges_dit_Chambre_Walter_Chronicle

Is just linking a free space page to a profile a problem?
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (670k points)
No. Links to a space page is the way to use it.
+1 vote
Ales

The Kingsman one belongs to me, could you please advise me as to what I need to do with it - without using words like transclusion because I understood less about that after reading the explanations than I did before.

Thanks

Derrick
by Derrick Watson G2G6 Mach 3 (36.1k points)

I suggest making https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:External_Link_Templates which is exactly what it is. I can create it for you. I would name it Template:Kingsman_ONS And I would change it a bit. Currently only half of the link is in template and you use 2 parameters, but only one is needed. I would make it as 

<includeonly>[http://kingsman.one-name.net/{{{1}}} Kingsman Family Lines]</includeonly>

so it would be a static text on the link and you can add remaining text after the template.

Current usage would change from

{{Space:Kingsman ONS|dna/|scotland.html}} Kingsman/Kingsmill DNA project webpage]

to

{{Kingsman ONS|dna/scotland.html}} Kingsman/Kingsmill DNA project webpage

This would be done by EditBOT.
If you like this, I can set it up, so you can try it on a few profiles.
That would be excellent, especially if you can have a bot change all the existing profiles that currently use the link.

Please go ahead and make what changes are necessary and I'll make sure that any new links I add use the new format.

This was set up originally (with your help) so that I could easily modify the links in future if the website host IP address changed. Should that happen how would I access the Template in order to change it?
I made the template. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:Kingsman%20ONS

I used it on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kinsman-1 as an example.

Is this ok? Do you want anything changed?

Are instructions on template OK? Do you want to extend them.

When you confirm, I will run dhe bot to change the usage.
That's close but not quite as I'd really like it.

The current system lets me differentiate in the text as to which part of the Kin(g)(s)man website the link goes to - Kinmans are different to Kingmans are different to Kinsmans.

Please see Kinman-202 as an example.

The coding for that is currently:

{{Space:Kingsman ONS|kinman/|kennethkinman/indiI1637.html}} Kinman ONS website page for Emery Kinman]

This is made possible by having the leading "[" in the freespace code.

Can the same be achieved within your template?
Is now better?
Sorry, but not that much better and it also doesn't help if the link is pointing to a document (e.g.) a will, rather than pointing to a person.

Example of a will would currently be:

{{Space:Kingsman ONS|documents/kingsman/|1510richardbatt1569will.html}} Will of Richard Batt dated 1569]

or the link could also point to a DNA study page.

The ideal for me is a system that delivers the webpage main address, then lets me put in where on that website to point, and then lets me put in the text that I want displayed in the hyperlink.

It's only the webpage URL that is not under my direct control and may need to be modified across all entries in the future should the host change it.

The existing system delivers exactly this - should do, as you tailored it for me in the first place.

If that is not possible in a template and you really need to change it from being a space to a template (I guess one is more economical in processing terms than the other, though I don't pretend to understand why) then I'll have to rethink the way I work.

Thanks

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