Lanckford & Reading family lines

+8 votes

William Clayton [Claiton-7] of some notoriety, was on the early Pennsylvania Provincial Council.  He was married to Prudence Lanckford in 1653.

I began looking at the parents and grandparents of Prudence on Wikitree and I see a lot of unsourced profiles and a lot of links to trees at Rootsweb and at Ancestry.

As I intend to go in and pragmatically discect these profiles, I thought I'd open a G2G thread to give anyone a chance to object to me removing some of these fantastic links - siblings born 100's of miles apart, commoners the daughters of Lord so and so, and the like.

If anyone has any input on these two family lines and the profiles listed below, please raise your comments here.


Prudence (Lanckford) Clayton
William Lanckford
Elizabeth Lanckford formerly Reading
Harry Lanckford aka Longford, Lankford
Elizabeth (Dawes) Lanckford
Lord William de TERRELL of Bruyn and Reading

and any ancestors of the last three linked.

WikiTree profile: Prudence Clayton
in Genealogy Help by SJ Baty G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)
retagged by SJ Baty
George Tyrrell and his Montague wife are all over the internet, apparently as ancestors of Jimmy Carter.  Won't go there.

They're supposed to have had a son William who had a son Robert, etc.

William may have lived at Reading, but that didn't make it his name (this being the 16th century not the 12th).  So I'd think "Elizabeth Reading" b 1605, if that was her name, looks unlikely to be William Tyrrell's daughter.

No doubt William's other descendants will arrive in some future gedcom.
As I now see you've already said on Elizabeth's profile.
SJ, appreciate all the work on this family line. So based on items 5 & 6 in Sources for Prudence Lanckford-1, William is now accepted as her father? When a FamilySearch entry says data collected by Utah Genealogical Society that does NOT include user submitted data, correct?

In my own notes I have simply been going through and removing (or making parenthetical) everyone in this lineage without primary document sources.
This was a civil marriage done by the JP under Cromwell's regulations.  No telling where it took place -- except not in the church.

Recording of these things was haphazard and most of the records are lost.  But evidently the Sussex Record Society included this one in their publication of the parish registers, which is not to say it's actually written in the parish register as such.  The LDS will have taken it from the SRS book.  Their system can't be more specific, but the SRS book would probably have more info about the manuscripts.
If you look at Prudence's [Lanckford-1] marriage information (source 2), you will see that in the marriage record it is recorded that William is her father (source 3).  I have not actually seen the source record for this marriage but it has been documented by Hunt who quotes Colonel Hansen & Marilyn Winton-Mitsch - she is a researcher for the NSDEQ (National Society of Descendants of Early Quakers) and she determined these relationships in her several year visit to England where she researched this line.  If you look at the husband (William Clayton [Claiton-7]) you can see the references to these works.

The sources 5 & 6 are index references to the same source documents referenced by Hansen and Winton-Mitsch.

I am still looking for a source copy of the docs and if anyone can get a copy, I'd love for them to share it here.

To answer your original question: Is William now accepted as her father?\

I would say "yes."  According to the NSDEQ - he is.
SJ, since we are now accepting William as the father of Prudence Lankford-1 the bio should be rewritten to reflect this. Currently reads as if the parentage is unknown. You worked on this so I didn't want to rewrite myself and not have it reflect what you discovered.
SJ, just happened by this profile again. Still needs to have the documentation for father as William added. Do you want me to do this?
I think this moved up from position 17 on my to do list to number 9 and I have no idea when I'll get to it - feel free to knock it out of the park if you have time!

I'm no sure if this will help with the whole thing or not, but I'd accidentally matched to Prudence on a GEDMatch looking for another Surname(Leeper-I'm stuck at a brick have been doing random DNA matches with various Leeper lines)  

For some reason, I don't see anyone listed in Prudence's profile for DNA purposes.  Is there someone here that has matched through Prudence or one of these other folks you are discussing, where I could run mine against as well?  I have samples processed by 23andMe GEDmatch GA4566788 as well as AncestryDNA, GEDmatch TV9428358, and I have noticed if I jump across companies kits, the cM and numbers of pairs are lower by a whole generation (on a side note, my daughter matches me better if I jump between vendors on GEDMatch... I went and just sent off kits to MyHeritage as well as FTDNA to see how they line up as well).

Not sure if it helps all this, but it would seem that folks connected by DNA would help connect the documents and such as well.  Turns out that we are both direct descendants...:

DNA Trace example to 11 generations ago (9th Great Grandma),

- Dona Brown Brown-75046 and Doug Leeper Jr. Leeper-995 are both descendants of Prudence (Lanckford) Clayton (abt.1632-aft.1689) Surrey, England. Profile: Lanckford-1

Prudence (Lanckford) Clayton was a part of William Penn's Pennsylvania Settlers community.

Comparing Kit TV1440132 (Dona Moyers) [Ancestry] and Kit TV9428358 (Douglas E Leeper Jr) [Ancestry]

Largest segment = 13.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 24.5cM (0.684 Pct)

4 shared segments found for this comparison.

523818 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.044 Pct SNPs are full identical

Dona and Doug are 10th cousins

1. Dona is the daughter of Robert Brown [unknown confidence]

2. Robert is the son of Roy Martin Brown (1901-1974) [unknown confidence]

3. Roy is the son of Samuel Harvel Brown (1857-1913) [unknown confidence]

4. Samuel is the son of Timothy Ellison Brown (abt.1820-1885) [unknown confidence]

5. Timothy is the son of John M. Brown (1797-1884) [unknown confidence]

6. John is the son of Timothy A Brown Jr (abt.1771-abt.1851) [unknown confidence]

7. Timothy is the son of Timothy Alexander Brown (abt.1764-abt.1818) [unknown confidence]

8. Timothy is the son of Timothy Brown (abt.1720-abt.1808) [unknown confidence]

9. Timothy is the son of Daniel Brown (abt.1693-abt.1771) [unknown confidence]

10. Daniel is the son of Honour (Clayton) Brown (1662-abt.1738) [confident]

11. Honour is the daughter of Prudence (Lanckford) Clayton (abt.1632-aft.1689) [confident]

***This makes Prudence the ninth great grandmother of Dona.

1. Doug is the son of Douglas Edwin Leeper (1941-2021) DNA confirmed

2. Douglas is the son of Lawrence E Leeper (1912-1948) DNA confirmed

3. Lawrence is the son of Nora Edith Lang (1885-1913) DNA confirmed

4. Nora is the daughter of Henrietta Hannah Etta Bell (Shockley) Lang (1864-1898) DNA confirmed

5. Henrietta is the daughter of Mary Ann (Thornburg) Shockley (1830-1905) [unknown confidence]

6. Mary is the daughter of Morgan Thornbrugh (1781-1865) [unknown confidence]

7. Morgan is the son of Rebecca (Mills) Thornbrugh (1744-abt.1821) [unknown confidence]

8. Rebecca is the daughter of Elizabeth (Harrold) Mills (1711-1771) [unknown confidence]

9. Elizabeth is the daughter of Mary (Beals) Harrold (1692-abt.1744) [unknown confidence]

10. Mary is the daughter of Mary Jane (Clayton) Beals (1665-1726) [confident]

11. Mary is the daughter of Prudence (Lanckford) Clayton (abt.1632-aft.1689) [confident]

***This makes Prudence the ninth great grandmother of Doug.

If I am butting in and unwelcome, I do apologize, my intent was just to try and help out- I am new at all this.

I realize I am reading this a bit late but wanted to thank you for the work you've done on our common ancestors. These are some of my direct great grandparents (by several generations) of at least one biological branch but possibly two. This thread was in my email this morning Dec 11, 2021 and I figure it is never too late to tell someone you are grateful.


 Becky Elizabeth (Simmons-11603)

3 Answers

+3 votes
It appears that the entire strata of profiles above William and Elizabeth are unsourced.  I am not sure if there are sources for these folks or if this was just some conjecture on the point of an amateur genealogist.  Once put on the net, this family line has been repeated and can be found on Find a Grave, Rootsweb, Ancestry, and other websites.

I searched for many of the names in the next generation (Harry, Elizabeth, & Lord William) via Family Search, Ancestry, Google, and through other channels and I can find no academic mention of any of these people.

Unfortunately, and I hope I'm wrong, this line seems to be a history of fantasy.
by SJ Baty G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)
+1 vote

Death record of William Lanckford is specific about the date as 1 Jan 1665 with burial the next day. Placed citation in Comments on profile. Profile reads as if the date of death was uncertain. Interesting spelling of Rumbaldswyke on the document.

by T Stanton G2G6 Pilot (237k points)
Great discovery T.  Do you have a copy of the source doc?  It would be great if you could upload it as a photo to William's profile.
It is now uploaded as PDF to William's profile. National Archive via Ancestry.
Super, thanks!  I'd like to export a jpg and post that to the profile if you don't mind - or I can email it to you and you can post it, dealers choice ;-)
Fine for you to do. I seem to always do them as pdf vs jpg. Can do jpg in future if that is easier for people to use within the site.

I like to have the full doc up (pdf) but it is nice to have a screen grab of the doc to put on the profile because pics are so few for these old profiles, having something other than text breaks up the monotony.

That is really a great find - shows he was buried in some graveyard (can't quite read it) but the location (neighborhood) is outside the east gate of Chichester.  This is the same neighborhood that William Claiton the younger lived - William is the father in law of William Lanckford's daughter Prudence.

There is a photo on William Claiton's profile of the East Gate - actually a copy of a sketch by Grimm.  I have yet to upload it but I found a photo of a copper drinking token (to make small change for buying beer) - basically a coin stamped by a local pub and the location of the pub is in the same neighborhood, it is stamped so and so pub, "without the east gate."  I'll try and get a photo up.

On the same page, I see the entries for the other members of the family:

entry for Elizabeth Clayton, William Lanckford's grand-daughter

William Lanckford's entry

death of grand-daughter Hannah Clayton

entry for grandson Thomas Clayton

and at the bottom of the left page I see the death of Thomas Lanckford the Elder.  This could be a son, sibling or father of William.  Further research is definitely warranted - it isn't a huge neighborhood, "Chichester without the east gate."
Can you post a link to the ancestry page where you found this and/or email me a link?  I'd like to look at the previous and subsequent pages.

Try this.  Let me know if does not work and I will have to email the link. For some reason I can't get any browser I use to copy and paste into this part of WikiTree system and it is maddening.

You're getting ahead of me...I spent so much time looking at other 17th century writing today my eyes can't take any more. I had noticed it looked like this could be a treasure trove for this family line.

I've been comparing letters on the different entries on this text and I finally cracked the cemetery name.  Before I had this:

"William Lanckford of the Parish of Rumbaldsweek died the first of the (11?}th month dated September 1665. Was Buried the next day, in that (dallod? Muha---? Lwy?) In Pancras Parish without the east gate of this day of Chichester in the County of Sussex."

Now I see that the Muha is St. Michaels Lytten - now a park called Litten Gardens.

"William Lanckford of the Parish of Rumbaldsweek died the first of the (11?)th month dated September 1665. Was Buried the next day, in that [place] called [St.] Michael's Lytten In Pancras Parish without the east gate of this day of Chichester in the County of Sussex."

On each entry, before St. Michaels Lytten, there is a word "callod."  It is used as if it were the word cemetery - I've searched but can't find this word - will search a bit more.

Getting ahead of you?  I'm getting ahead of myself!  Its nights like this, when I find a new lead, that I don't get any sleep for the next few days...

no, don't have access - it gave me a glimpse and then took me to the page asking me to sign up for a world explorer subscription... another nail in the coffin for me not holding out to buy it...

pretty excited about this new discovery!
I forked out for the Ancestry package simply because it saved a lot of research time by having quite a lot of things in one place. But, I have found that you often really have to 'force' the search engine with restrictions. Also the indexing is often not so good. I don't know if that comes with the package they buy, for example, from National Archive or if they're running their own OCR to make indexes. Especially with the old English Quaker records I'm finding I have to read each and every page when I find 'treasure' because the indexing can miss so much. Had that this morning with Holme MM in Cumberland...found more and more and more that was missed by the indexing.

Callod - maybe try Middle English dictionary? Official records type things maybe it was archaic at the time it was used for this. Glad you figured out Michael's Lytten -- I was clueless.

Anyway, if you've got a hit list of names for this Lanckford endeavor, I can get you copies of pages that seem relevant. If this death record find unlocks the Lanckford mystery it will solve a dead end a lot of people have had for a long time (and slay some mythical genealogy).
I think they use South Asian sweatshops for indexing.  The workers get very little money and very little training.

Calllod - got an answer on my G2G query; it is likely that it is "called" and the writer left out the word "place:"

"William Lanckford of the Parish of Rumbaldsweek died the first of the (11?)th month dated September 1665. Was Buried the next day, in that [place] called [St.] Michael's Lytten In Pancras Parish without the east gate of this day of Chichester in the County of Sussex."

I guess the old adage the simplest explanation is often the best.

Good grief, who flagged RJ for making an observation?
I cleared the flag on RJ's comment....
+1 vote
SJ, looks like a probably fictional son is attached to the profile of :

This is being used to connect the family to colonial immigrant Roger Terrill whose parentage is unknown. I just completed a rework of the profile on Terrill-6, have marked Terrill-83 as Uncertain as father in advance of complete detachment if Jillaine concurs. Not even sure Terrill-83 is a real person.
by T Stanton G2G6 Pilot (237k points)
edited by T Stanton

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