Lassar (Orgail) of Airgíalla (0550)

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In trying to work on one of the people with a birth date listed as 0550 and a number of suggestions I am actually wondering if she is real or myth.

I have looked at a number of pre-1500 Irish resources and listed a fairly extensive summary of what I found or did not find in trying to research her.

Please take a look and feel free to add research to this profile.

If someone with more knowledge of old Irish langages can look at the last two sources and see what they actually say (if they relate to this person or not) I would appreciate it. If they don't relate to the lady, please say so on the profile in the research notes.  

Thanks in advance for any help that can be given.
WikiTree profile: Lassar of Airgíalla
in Genealogy Help by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (671k points)
Best bet is to find source for original upload, probably not "fabpedigree" which appears to follow a different translation from that shown here - will take a look
Valerie, I did not find anything at CELT that fit and was in English. This must have come from some secondary list like the NY worlds fair list.

I'm thinking it came from Llywelyn ap Iorwerth ancestor table by Stewart Baldwin This keeps popping up on the internet as a source.

And it looks like it was taken from Begat Us put into Ancestry and imported into wikitree. 

I question if she really existed. That far back you rarely find women being documented.  I listed all of the normal sources and they for the most part  had nothing...

Richard this seems to be the author of that list

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.celtic/yT7rTg-Ndtw

and more info with some of the sources he seems to have used

http://brigittegastelancestry.com/royal/llywelynanc.htm

on this last string I found this:  286725. Lassar of Airgialla [WUD] [Note:  Her exact parentage is unknown, as she is shown as either a sister [LL.316b] or daughter [Lec.91Rb] of Ailill mac Daimíni, who was son of Daimíne, son of Cairpre Dam Argait, king of Airgialla, whose supposed death in 514 is given in a noncontemporary entry in AU.] 

Well the one on WikiTree has a birth date listed as 550 and she is the only Lassar listed in that source.  

I've been trying to find WUD on line with no luck. I'll try tomorrow. Baldwin gives his Sources and Abbreviations at the bottom of his page

WUD = Margaret E. Dobbs, "Women of the Uí Dunlainge of Leinster", The Irish Genealogist 1 (1940), 196-206.  This article gives the text and translation of an Irish genealogical tract which was probably originally written in the first half of the eighth century (with later additions), giving the ancestry of the wives of several kings of Leinster (Laigin).  The original manuscript sources were LL.316a, Lec.91Rb, BB.133a, and D.2.1 (Royal Irish Academy), 17v and 96, of which the first three are also edited (in Irish only) in CGH pp. 340-1, and D.2.1 is contained in BS 220-1.  For convenience, I have cited only WUD in cases where this tract is used, unless variations in the different manuscripts are important, but it should be kept in mind that the corresponding pages of CGH and BS are also relevant in all cases where WUD is cited.

I found these:

http://www.emptynestancestry.com/blythegenealogy/getperson.php?personID=I32537&tree=BlytheGenealogy2

https://monasticmatrix.osu.edu/cartularium/bethu-brigte:  44. Brigit went afterwards to Cell Lasre. Lassar welcomed her. There was a single milch ewe there which had been milked, and it was killed for Brigit. As they were [there] at the end of the day, they saw Patrick coming towards the stead. 'May God help us, O Brigit', said Lassar. 'Give us your advice'. Brigit replied: 'How much have you?' She said: 'There is no food except twelve loaves, a little milk which you have blessed and a single lamb which has been prepared for you'. This is what [they do]: They all go into her refectory, both Patrick and Brigit', and they were all satisfied. And Lassar gave her her church, and Brigit is venerated there.  Ó hAodha, Donncha. Bethu Brigte


[Bethu Brigte ]

 

Derived from the earliest vita of Brigit, , this mostly-Irish language text probably dates from around 800, although an original version may have been earlier. It exists in one manuscript, Rawinson B 512, ff. 314-35v.
http://dib.cambridge.org/quicksearch.do 
Lassar (6th cent.?), foundress and first abbess of Cluain Laigen (Clonlyon, parish of Kilmore, Co. ...
continue looking...

I also found this:  http://omniumsanctorumhiberniae.blogspot.com/2015/12/  scroll down there is a story of St Lassar or St. Lasair   Now in one of the above references there was a Lassar associated with both St Brigid and with being the patroness of an Abbey and its first Abbess in the 6th Century. 

A note about how the term Saint was used in Ireland and other parts of the British Isles:  The title of "saint" was used quite broadly by British, Irish, and English Christians. Extreme cases are Irish accounts of Gerald of Mayo's presiding over 3,300 saints and Welsh claims that Bardsey Island held the remains of 20,000.[c] More often, the title was given to the founder of any ecclesiastical settlement, which would thenceforth be known as their llan. Such communities were organized on tribal models: founding saints were almost invariably lesser members of local dynasties, they were not infrequently married, and their successors were often chosen from among their kin.[35]   (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Christianity  Baring-Gould 1898, pp. 30–40)

‘LXXXVI. Ibi etiam vir sanctus baptizavit, Deoque consecravit duas celebratae sanctitatis virgines Crebream et Lassaram, Gleranno viro nobili Cuminei filio, natas. Hae sunt, quae inclusae in utero materno in regione de Caille Fochladh referuntur dudum ante in persona infantium Hiberniae clamasse ad S. Patricium, dum esset in insulis maris Tyrrheni efflagitando ut seposita mora ad Hibernos convertendos acceleraret:


p.467

earumque sacrae exuviae ut patronarum loci, in summa veneratione in Ecclesia de Kill-fhorclann, iuxta Muadium versus Occidentem asservantur.’  from

https://celt.ucc.ie/published/T105010/text003.html  seems too late... if ours was born in 550

Lastly for now , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monastic_houses_in_Ireland#County_Kildare  see:  

Diore-mac-Aidmecain Monastery ~ early monastic site, nunsfounded 6th century (in the time of St Finnian of Clonard) St Lassara the virgin
____________________
Dairemacnaidmecain

 

Laura, based on the comment you discovered - - 286725. Lassar of Airgialla "Her exact parentage is unknown, as she is shown as either a sister or daughter of Ailill mac Daimíni" you have uncovered enough to begin filling in a bio for her.

Associated profiles need sourcing & bios, probably merges too.

This profile is one of several string of profiles in which a list of kings or individuals not necessarily related have been uploaded to suggest family connections. If we note uncertainties in the bio, add links between the profiles in question and allocate a category, they will remain traceable whether or not they remain connected as family members.
Thanks Valerie!  I intend to update the profile with the added research when it settles..  I am going to send you a private message to look at something.  Would like your feedback.  Need to send you a file...

Richard & Laura - Have located a possible alternative identity for Lassar; Laisrén mac Nad Froích - see note at bottom of Lassar's profile https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Orgail-1 Still working on it;  let me know what you think.

Hi Valerie,  looks like you have done a lot of updates.  Great!  

If this person is both a mother and a wife it has to be a female.  doesn't mac mean son of?  Just want to make sure we stay within the right sex because for some reason she was listed as male which is what brought me to this profile to begin with.... fixing a pre-1500 suggestion.  I did a name search on Lassar and confirmed it was a female name and no males had it.  So I change the sex back to female   Somehow in some prior mergers or something the sex got changed to male.  

In the above:
Lassar (6th cent.?), foundress and first abbess of Cluain Laigen (Clonlyon, parish of Kilmore, Co. ...

 

also found this:
  http://omniumsanctorumhiberniae.blogspot.com/2015/12/  scroll down there is a story of St Lassar or St. Lasair   Now in one of the above references there was a Lassar associated with both St Brigid and with being the patroness of an Abbey and its first Abbess in the 6th Century. 
A note about how the term Saint was used in Ireland and other parts of the British Isles:  The title of "saint" was used quite broadly by British, Irish, and English Christians. Extreme cases are Irish accounts of Gerald of Mayo's presiding over 3,300 saints and Welsh claims that Bardsey Island held the remains of 20,000.[c] More often, the title was given to the founder of any ecclesiastical settlement, which would thenceforth be known as their llan. Such communities were organized on tribal models: founding saints were almost invariably lesser members of local dynasties, they were not infrequently married, and their successors were often chosen from among their kin.[35]   (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Christianity  Baring-Gould 1898, pp. 30–40)
So it is plausible in my mind that she might be a founder of a convent or religious house.
The question is are these multiple people with similar names or the same person with variations of the name...   I am not sure there is enough source materials to clarify that. 
Also I found something that said Lassar meant wave.  Can't put my finger on it at the moment...  I looked at so many sources!

re gender - In this particular string of genealogy, two parallel uploads have been merged. In one, "Lassar" appeared as male (see another online copy of same tree) https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/m/c/c/Tayler-L-Mccormick/GENE2-0058.html - in the other "Lassar" appeared as both mother & daughter

yes - quite possible that the Lassar here is named for the chap I researched today, think I'll make a fresh profile for him once I have found a source for "Natfraich" the linking parent.

Laisrén mac Nad Froích now has his own profile with father Nad Froích Mac Cuirc & brother  Óengus 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mac_Nad_Fro%C3%ADch_mac_Cuirc-1

Laura - have now added some links & notes to better identify those people mentioned in the research notes entered on the profile for Lassar https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Orgail-1

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Laura, I have posted a source for the parent & grandparent of Lassar of Airgíalla https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Orgail-1 and would like to delete your research notes which refer to different people. I have added extra notes & links to your notes, please check them through and let me know if you are happy with the profile as it now stands; before we go ahead and tidy the profile.
by Valerie Willis G2G6 Mach 7 (79.4k points)
selected by Laura Bozzay
Hi Valerie, you did a fabulous job!   Thanks for doing all the stunning research!  I deleted the research notes.  I think what you have is very clear.

You may want to get Project Protection for the profile.  Since we know there are several fraudulent versions out on the web.  Also giving you best answer!
That's funny re "project-protect" - am aiming for project protection for all the Irish pre-1000 profiles, but it's a wee way off yet. Many need re-naming & the protocols haven't been agreed & established yet.

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