How to cite sources from living people

+5 votes
430 views
My title is a bit simplistic and maybe not completely correct.

Two scenarios.

A fellow researcher went to Ireland last spring and went through many COI parish records and provided me with all the records that were found.  These are not the actual records, but transcriptions.

I got second/third hand information about the sisters of my 2x great grandfather.  The person providing the information and the person I got it from are still alive.

How do I cite this source when the person providing the information is alive and may or may not be on wikitree?
in Policy and Style by Debbie Lamb G2G3 (3.1k points)

2 Answers

+8 votes

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Sources#Second-hand_information

Second-hand information

Schmoe, Joe. Personal recollection, 3 Jun 2011, as told to [[Example-6|John Example]] via the phone. Notes in the possession of John Example.

Often genealogical information is provided by other family members.

It's a good idea to include who said certain information, and if you remember, when and where they said it. You may also want to include a link to the person's WikiTree profile page.

First-hand information (yourself)

[[Example-6|Example, John]]. Personal recollection, 5 Jul 2015.

-

In your case, I would write it out as it sounds in your text above:

Interview of Great Grandfather xyz in March 2018. Notes in possession of your name.

-

You can find an example of some I've done here:

Elmer Herbert Ranck - sources 9 & 16.

9. ↑ Ranck, Paul E. Personal recollection, April 1993, as told to SJ Baty in an interview in Callahan, California. Notes and video recording in the possession of SJ Baty.

16.  Ranck, A. Personal recollection, October 1997, as told to SJ Baty in an interview in with A Ranck. Notes in the possession of SJ Baty.

by SJ Baty G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
edited by SJ Baty
Doing it this way means I have to set up a profile for the person who I got the information from or naming them.  I have a bit of a problem with that, this is a living person.  I figure that if they wanted their name on wikitree, they would put their own profile up.
You don't need to set up a profile for them.  If you write on a free space page that you observed xyz, I can write a source on my profile:

As told by D. Martin on 7 September 2018 on her Wikitree page.

You don't have to name the person if they want privacy, or use their first initial.  You can write, "Notes obtained by the second cousin (name withheld for privacy)  of [Debbie Martin] while researching the church archives in Bremmen, Germany in March 2018. Notes and source information in the possession of [Debbie Martin].

You could also add a note (within the source) if you are willing to email a copy of the notes to other Wikitreer's.
SJ, a lot of what I include on some profiles of people I never knew are personal recollections of people who did. Since in my culture (rural South, US) was big on oral traditions, we (I) didn’t keep notes. We just heard the stories over and over. So, when I write some of the recollections into profiles, I say who I heard it from and link that person to their profile. But there are no notes kept. Does this make the information suspect to others.

Example: my grandfather, Ralph, who died when I was 26, told me many stories of he heard from his father, Sid, about Sid’s Civil War experiences. I realize this is “doubly” removed from the original source. How do I cite that?

Some of the stories can be backed up from the general historical records. Others are more personal in nature.

"But there are no notes kept. Does this make the information suspect to others."

The only thing that should be "suspect" are Ancestry.com unsourced trees as sources.

1. The recollection of James Patterson building the first cabin on Patterson creek was told to [Pip] by his grandfather and two great-uncles, John Smith and Thomas Martin.  In the subsequent years, [Pip] heard this recollection from two or three of the elders (including Hendrick Patterson, the owner of the Pine Street gas station and a direct descendant of James Patterson) of the community in the years between 1995 and 1998.

If I read a source like that I'd take it over any source from a family tree that has no other detail.

Now that makes sense! I’ll write some of them up that way. Thanks for this!

Now I gotta give you a harder example: my grandfather had an uncle, William Pinckney Lawing, killed at Petersburg 30 September 1864. Turns out, he was killed at the Battle of Jones Farm at Petersburg. This from a book on his regiment by Hardy. He had access to the sim either of the regiment’s records (not the usual service records; I do have those). Grandpa said that one of my grandmother’s uncles, Bill Smith (yes, his real name), told the story in the neighborhood about Pink’s death. Grandpa’s mother heard about it second hand and asked him about it. Uncle Bill told her the story, how a fellow soldier said, “Look there. Their lies Pink Lawing.” Grandpa heard the story from his mother. So now, how do I cite that? Aside from Grandpa, I have no one else who can corroborate the story. And I took no notes. I remember the story as I had heard it so many times from my Grandpa. I could only give the decade I heard this (1970s).

In that case, I'd use the Wikitree format for a recollection and write it like you did:

Schmoe, Joe. Personal recollection, 3 Jun 2011, as told to [[Example-6|John Example]] via the phone. Notes in the possession of John Example.

"... a soldier pointed and said, 'that is where Pink is buried.'  This story was told by Jane Sheppard to Wallace Sheppard before 1979, and by Barry Smith, the uncle of Wallace Sheppard before 1989: Sheppard, Wallace. Personal recollection of events told to him, 1990-2000, as told to [Pip] in person and recorded by personal recollection of [Pip] on 7 September 2018."

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks again, SJ!
+4 votes
You wouldn't cite the person. You would cite the source the person found. First and second-hand information is used when you (first-hand) or someone else (second-hand) has personal recollections of a person, not when they've provided information/transcriptions from the source material.

Did this person provide you with the information you need to cite the actual source of the transcriptions?
by Deb Durham G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)

Related questions

+7 votes
4 answers
997 views asked Jun 23, 2020 in WikiTree Help by Noah Doolan G2G2 (2.7k points)
+7 votes
2 answers
1.7k views asked Sep 5, 2019 in Policy and Style by Becky Troth G2G6 Mach 4 (45.9k points)
+11 votes
5 answers
2.3k views asked Nov 21, 2018 in Policy and Style by Tessa Hope G2G6 (6.5k points)
+9 votes
2 answers
159 views asked Jul 3, 2018 in WikiTree Help by Jane Copes G2G6 Mach 3 (33.6k points)
+49 votes
7 answers
1.4k views asked Jan 20, 2018 in Policy and Style by Allison Mackler G2G6 Mach 6 (63.3k points)
+14 votes
2 answers
382 views asked Oct 20, 2017 in The Tree House by Star Kline G2G6 Pilot (714k points)
+10 votes
1 answer
127 views asked Oct 12, 2017 in Policy and Style by Kristi Johnson G2G Crew (690 points)
+5 votes
2 answers
544 views asked Jul 22, 2017 in The Tree House by Lisa Roberts G2G6 Mach 2 (28.3k points)
+4 votes
1 answer

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...