should Jacobsdochter be the final WikiTree ID for this person? [closed]

+6 votes

Although I think the name would never have been written down like this, I kinda
like it. It also looks fairly robust (in that I think a bunch of profiles
have been merged into it already). So I protected it.

However, I think we need to discuss whether it's the best LNAB for her before doing any more merges, so I also added the new "DO NOT MERGE" message adopted by the New Netherland Settlers project.

Philip van der Walt told me in an e-mail that Jacobsdochter is "Not wrong at all - very much as it might have been originally noted in those early days ... in any way, by moderrn standards it is perfect Dutch!"

He also agreed, however, that it would seldom be written out completely, saying:

Just a note; it was not usually common practice to write the full 'dochter' or 'zoon' behind the name; at times one sees it in the baptismal records (especially the Frisian ones), and of course it must be the LNAB. Mostly it was in an abbreviated form - 's'/'z'/'(s)'en'(s) /'dr' The full word 'zoon' was however used (even into the previous century) in the same way as 'junior' is used today, often it was used as a nickname (in my family alone 2 cases in the last century) : see: ( and (much more common in the Jewish German surnames, just think of Mendelsohn).

So. Keep Jacobsdochter-2 as the final LNAB or go with something else?


WikiTree profile: Neeltgen Jacobsdochter
closed with the note: agreement reached early. Jacobsdochter-2 it is
in Genealogy Help by Liz Shifflett G2G6 Pilot (403k points)
closed by Liz Shifflett
sorry - I should've put a "let me know by" date So. Let me know by March 15 if you have any objections so that I can designate this profile as the final WikiTree ID on March 16.

3 Answers

+1 vote
I still have a lot of trouble copy / pasting info into this specific frame. See my comments on: Jacobsdochter-5. I'm concerned that there is a wrong spousal connection here ...
by Philip van der Walt G2G6 Pilot (150k points)
+1 vote
I say yes, keep Jacobsdochter, and merge her duplicates as soon as possible, because she is the key profile that seems to be holding up the vast majority of Van Couwenhoven descendants from being cleanly merged away.

Our only other choices are Peters, which is clearly wrong, because that is simply applying the surname of her father.

Or Jansen, which was in a hand-entered profile, but with no parents attached, and no source about that origin. The origin of that Jansen variant may have been the LDS Ancestral file from way back in 1998, which listed her father as Neeltjen Janse. And so that is wrong on two counts:

First, it simply applies the surname of her father as her surname, as in the wrong Peters already mentioned.

And second, the identity of the father as Neeltjen Janse simply seems to have been Ancestral File confusion with this woman, the daughter of Metgen. The Ancestral File named her Neeltje Jansen.

So I would discard the Jansen as unlikely, and as simply an AFN error, although it does leave open the question of where the Janse / Jansen name had come from to begin with.

The father as Jacob Petersz seems to be much more recently widely accepted. So that makes this Neeltje properly the daughter or Jacob.

And since you had opened this way back on March 5, I have no problem with closing it now a day or two early. It has already been nine days since the first query.
by Steven Mix G2G6 Mach 4 (40.1k points)
+1 vote
On Philip's concern about a wrong spousal connection here, because of Jacobsdocther-5, that profile is Neeltje's mother Metgen Jacobsdochter.

The old 1998 Ancestral File had Metgen's name as Mrs Neeltjen JANSE. That is just useless, because as I stated in my earlier answer, it it based on the wrong husband name, which in turn is seemingly an error confusion with this person Neeltje, the daughter.

But the 2002 Joseph Lott database online had the mother's name in better agreement with the WikiTree profile, as Metgen Jacobsdr.

So for Metgen the mother we can either accept that, or keep that G2G open, which I had already started specifically for Metgen. Metgen is not blocking any forward merges if we do not close her.
by Steven Mix G2G6 Mach 4 (40.1k points)
As Philip said ,Jacobsdr would be better and more common used back than ,but it is very correct . If you want to make it more correct you should make Jacobsdr her primary last name (by birth!) In Holland no one used last names (using and registering last names only started because Napoleon ordered that in 1811 -people than had to be registered and use and think of an official last name for this registration) Before that churchregistrations always were used and for example in case of Neeltje ,daughter of Jacob,  her registration birth name would be most likely Neeltje Jacobsdr (sometimes they would wright daughter full ,but most common was just ´sdr´(=meaning daughter from ) added to the first name of the father ,if Neeltje would be a boy it would be Neeltje Jacobsz in this region ,in some other regions they only added the ´s´ (meaning he or she is a child from Jacob ). But in this region common was ´sz´ added to the first name of the father (boys),or ´sdr´ added to the first name of the father (girls) and that would be their last name .

van Kouwenhoven or van Couwenhoven could be used as aka last name to make it more correct .And if everyone would do it this way ..using the patroniem for last name instead of some version of van Kouwenhoven , it would make the merging of the many duplicates that are now excisting ,because everyone uses different spellings of the´ last name´ van Kouwenhoven/van Couwenhoven/Couwenhoven and so on... and than the project could get finished much quicker also . So if everyone would use  the patroniem  (last name of the father with sz added for boys and sdr added for girls ,set as last name by birth) and some version of van kouwenhoven as aka ...this would be the most correct for the Dutch episode of the van Kouwenhoven family and the project would be much easier to complete :)

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