G2G: Proposed new phase in "Edward III descents" mini-project

Question

There have been many threads about this "mini project" that a couple of us have worked on. Best starting page is here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:A_table_of_descendants_of_Edward_III

One old idea of mine keeps coming back and I am thinking of going ahead:

I would like to create a Category for Edward III descendants, starting at 5 generations. I think:

1. It should be reasonably easy to find a place to fit this as a logical category to fit in the present hierarchy.

2. Obviously we do not want to create clutter. The instructions and help texts would explain that Edward III has been carefully chosen as one monarch to do this type of thing because it could really help genealogy of normal people, and because he is not too far back (which means too many people would be covered) and not too recent (which would mean the descendants would tend to already be known).

3. For the same reason, I think it would be useless to make special categories for children and grand-children etc. Everyone up to the War of the Roses is pretty obvious because that's partly what it was about. That's why I propose to start at 5 generations.

4. A few of us already invested a lot of time into getting to a 5 generation list: https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Project:Edward_III_descents_past_gen_5

Anyone see any real problem with me trying this out? (Please no-one jump ahead of me until we've discussed.)

Comments

I'm very confused.. Edward's youngest son, Thomas of Woodstock, married Eleanor de Bohun & had Humphrey, Anne, Joan, Isabel & Philippa.

What am I missing?

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I presume you are trying to parse the first link, which is a messy working webpage. But the links help. If you follow Thomas down to his own table you get here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:A_table_of_descendants_of_Edward_III#Thomas_of_Woodstock

Does that clarify?

Answer 1

Are you saying a category for the 5 generations starting at Edward III?  Or that the category would be for the millions of descendants starting at his 5th generations descendants?

Comments

Good question, to help me explain this! I suppose in a way I am proposing only one Category for descendants of Edward III, but with instructions explaining that it is to be limited.

Under this category would be Sub-Categories for some generations. And potentially we could start with only one or two (or three). For example, one long term goal might be would be to achieve 5 generations: 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th ... or less for that matter.

In any case I propose nothing for generations less than 5.

The aim is to create "gateways" between medieval families and modern ones of British descent - two different genealogical worlds than many people want to link. (In a sense, the Americans are showing the way on that with the Magna Carta project but their gateway focus is specifically oriented to link to certain emigrants.)

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I think this is a good and useful idea.

This is very similar to the Magna Carta project trails badges, and I think should be used in a similar way.  I spend a great deal of time researching and breaking unproved/incorrect lines.  I see this category/badge/sticker system as being a form of certification.  Essentially saying the relationship of parent to child is proved by primary or very good secondary sources.  The idea would be very helpful in cleaning up wikitree and improving its overall accuracy and quality with regard to pre-1500 profiles.

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Your response makes it seem like you understand me and see the point. Good sign!  :)

Answer 2

Not that clear what you mean. If it's that only people of "proven" descent would be included it could be quite helpful.

Comments

Yes. Did you follow the links? We had a previous effort to get as far as 5 generations with a reasonable level of confidence. So we already have a page where we list those people (and those working pages are not "closed" but can continue to be improved).

So this Category would be like a new tool for that work, as well as giving a real visible result of the work done so far, for Wikitree readers and genealogists generally.

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This does not at all touch my areas of interest, but it looks like very good work, very worthwhile!

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Maybe we can make it an area of more people's interests! :)

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I never thought Edward III's descendance could interest me, but thanks to those links I see that there are Rohan descendants. The Rohan family is one of my house assignments, so I can work on that line.

I could help with the Luxembourgs too, I guess.

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There are more French lines that that, so I really hope you can help on some of that. I think they are interesting cases of interconnections. There is also interesting stuff to look at for Portuguese and Spanish specialists.

It is funny with all the supposed interest in royalty around that no one seems to have ever bothered to find out whether there are living descendants of Henry IV, or Edward III's eldest child Isabella. France is too difficult to track it seems. (Or maybe people don't want to think about how connected England is to France. Surely was not the case for Edward III and his family.)

Lines not much look at include:

• [[Scarpone-16]] https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Edward_III_descents_past_gen_5#Isabell_table
• [[Lancaster-1616]] https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Edward_III_descents_past_gen_5#King_Henry_IV_table
• [[Lancaster-408]] whose second husband was Jean d'Amancy Or d'Amancier

Answer 3

Perhaps Category:Edward III Descendants (pre-1500) - restricting the category to descendants born before 1500? Post-1500 descendants could use a tailored Descendant Sticker.

Whatever category name you decide on could be added with a sticker similar to the one for Charlemagne descendants (but note that it's marked as "retired" [here]). Category:Stickers lists it & a few other project-specific Descendant stickers, if you'd like to see how other projects have handled this.

Cheers, Liz

Comments

I would not want to stop it at 1500, rather after the War of the Roses, because that keeps you in the medieval zone where most people can not connect. The 1600s is not an easy century for genealogists to bridge, but for the gentry families there is often a possibility.

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sounds good - I suggested pre-1500 cuz that seemed to include everyone within 5 generations.

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Right. Very approximately. 5 just gets us to an interesting line. End of the war of the roses.

...When I think about it we really should aim to take it a couple of generations more. 10 max I reckon, but the basic principle does not require a decision about where it ends.