What is the best DNA test to determine if we are full or half sibilings.

+8 votes
667 views
At 68 years old I found I have 6 siblings. All  7 of us have the same birth mother.

Three of us 2 sisters and a brother have an unknown father we would like to know if we are full blood siblings and have the same father or if each has a different father. The other 4 boys know who both their biological birth parents are. We do know that their birth fathers are not ours.  I am confused by all the advertisements and different DNA tests. What company offers the best DNA testing to determine sibling relationship.

All the people that knew the answers to the who fathered who fathered who question took it to the grave with them.
in Genealogy Help by
retagged by Peter Roberts

Full siblings should share approximately 50% of their DNA, half-siblings about 25%. Full siblings average 2629 shared centimorgans and half-siblings average 1783 shared centimorgans.

Just a quick note that if both are tested and compared only at 23andMe, the numbers will look a little different. 23andMe uses a calculation method that looks at the total half-identical shared amount, as do the others, but the amount of the fully-identical regions are added in again, effectively doubling those values. Also, 23andMe is the only company that includes the count of X-chromosome sharing when they report the total amount of autosomal DNA. They don't use the X-chromosome by itself for evaluating a match--none of the companies or services do that--but they do count it in the total reported.

The result can be somewhat confusing for those who also upload their results to, for example, GEDmatch. On 23andMe full siblings will show as sharing somewhere around 3200-3500cM. In other words, in amounts that would look like a monozygotic twin or parent/child relationship would on GEDmatch, where Jessica's numbers are accurate (theoretical sharing of 2550cM and 1700cM, respectively). That can cause some consternation if folks aren't aware of 23andMe differences.

Edited to correct some clumsy wording. I do that a lot, but catch it rarely...

Wow!  I wonder if that's another factor in skewing the numbers to the right on Blaine's Shared cM Project.  He does ask for the source of the DNA info, so he may try to adjust for it.  He can't adjust very accurately though, as he doesn't ask for the amount of matching X cM, and he doesn't ask whether the relationship is on the maternal side or not (although that info might be voluntarily offered).

I note that the range of values for parent/child is only about 400, where the X factor would be fully known.  For sibling, it's about 1200!  For grandparent, it's about 1150, and for half-sibling and great grandparent, it's about 1000.  Not knowing whether there's an X component could make a significant difference.

Hm; I never really considered that, Rob, but it could have a statistical effect on Blaine's data. I don't know if there's any adjustment based on data source, either...like you note, though, attempting to adjust for it may be trickier and more prone to inaccuracy than just leaving the crowd-sourced information as entered.

The fully-identical region (FIR) matter very quickly becomes pretty much a non-issue in any but the closest relationships. I think most of the skewing by outliers comes with more distant cousins. Unless the result of recent pedigree collapse, even 1st cousins share almost nothing in the way of FIRs; even double 1st cousins would see less than 2%.

The X-chromosome, as always, is very tricky to work with...which is why most testing/reporting companies keep it separated from data about the 22 autosomes. The two pseudoautosomal regions aren't tested at all, so there's about 2.8 million of the 155 million base pairs unreported. Also untested are about another 4 million bp in the SNP-poor area just before the centromere on the short arm.

A male carries only half the X-chromosomal material of a female, and all our centiMorgan calculations use sex-averaged values, which is really difficult to apply to the X and can only be done with a bit of smoke-and-mirrors math. Technically speaking, since a centiMorgan describes an expected recombination frequency of 0.01, the X in the male genome has cM values only in the PARs because the rest of the chromosome never undergoes crossover. Playing around with the map interpolator at Rutgers illustrates this: trying to enter any bp value for the X of over 2.8 mbp will yield a zero result on the male genome map; but on the female map you're good out to 155 mbp and 196cM. That's one reason I've always been highly suspect of reporting X-chromosome matching in males in terms centiMorgan genetic distance. We can certainly compare segments from base pair to base pair but, strictly speaking, there are no centiMorgans to compute along the male copy of the X-chromosome. The testing and reporting companies are making some very broad assumptions using the cM values derived from the female genome map and applying it to the male map.

Hello Ed, You say “...trying to enter any bp value for the X of over 2.8 mbp will yield a zero result on the male genome map; but on the female map you're good out to 155 mbp and 196cM. That's one reason I've always been highly suspect of reporting X-chromosome matching in males in terms centiMorgan genetic distance.”  Can you explain what you are saying in another way and / or with a simple example?  What would be a better way to report male to male X-DNA matching?

If two males are an X-DNA match, what do you believe is the minimum cM size for that matching segment to be truly from a shared X-DNA ancestor in a genealogical timeframe?

Hey, Peter! The short version is: Other than the fact that the X-chromosome has a unique pattern of inheritance and, for males, it's "naturally phased" (a term Debbie Kennett reminded me of) in that we know positively it came from the mother, in my opinion nothing else about it deserves special treatment for genealogy.

Now, since I never expect anyone to take my opinion as worth anything without explanation, and because we all know I can't say anything in 50 words...

A centiMorgan isn't a physical measurement at all: it's a computation via a linear equation to describe genetic linkage. It's intended to look at something that is a physical measurement--the distance between two base pairs, or loci, along a chromosome--and arrive at an estimation of genetic relationship based on an average of the expected number of per-generation crossovers that will occur in that specific region during formation of a gamete. One centiMorgan is equivalent to a 0.01 (or 1%) chance of a single-generation crossover occurring.

Everybody with me? A centiMorgan isn't a measurement. It's a "mathy" guesstimation of the odds that nucleotides in your chromosomes will swap around with others during meiosis. It's all about genetic diversity. And that's why centiMorgan's are never the same value between different chromosomes, or even between different stretches along the same chromosome. And why we should kinda ignore it when we see centiMorgans evaluated out to two decimal places: the estimation ain't nearly that accurate.

Okay; now. The female and male human genome map is quite different when it comes to the expected number of crossovers. During oogenesis, the production of an egg, the female's DNA goes through crossover significantly more than does a male's during spermatogenesis. In fact, the number of crossover events in males is only about 59% (give or take a little) that of a female. I will refrain from any comments dealing with "underachievement." Ahem.

In rough, whole numbers, the ovum is the result of about 45 crossover events during meiosis, and the sperm the result of about 26. An aside: ya know those autosomal segments we talk about all the time? Ta dah! There they are. For the autosomes, you get 22 segments from your dad and 22 from your mom. Easey peasey. But to get those, your mom produced 45 distinct segments that came from her parents, and your dad produced 26 from his parents. With 71 segments in the mix from each ancestral couple, you can see how things get stirred up and the segments sizes reduced really quickly as the generations proceed.

Part--but by no means all--of that difference between the female and male genomic maps is the X-chromosome. BTW, when the debates begin about using very small segments for genealogy, seemingly often overlooked is that what we see from the testing/reporting companies are sex-averaged centiMorgan values. With small segments, the difference between the two genome maps can be enough to completely wipe-out a supposed segment depending upon segment size and the gender of the test-taker.

In males, the X-chromosome never goes through crossover (except, as noted earlier, in the very small pseudoautosomal regions that the testing companies don't evaluate anyway). In that regard, it behaves like the Y-chromosome. Males always contribute the whole kit and kaboodle to their offspring.

By definition, no crossover events, no centiMorgans. There is no centiMorgan evaluation to be had for the X-chromosome of a male because it will not be recombining during meiosis. Here's a screenshot from Rutgers University showing the centiMorgan evaluation of the X through the first 200,000 base pairs (it can't compute any lower); up to (approximately) the end of the first pseudoautosomal region (PAR2 is minuscule); and then up through 155 million base pairs, close to the whole thing:

In the male genome map, cMs can be calculated for the PAR only. The rest is always zero because the chromosome doesn't go through crossover except in that small initial region which is useless for genealogy (that function, other than the area also containing some protein-producing genes, is really just to allow the X and Y to properly split at fertilization and to pair together in male embryos).

What we see in the results from the testing/reporting companies with X-chromosome matching involving male test-takers is not a direct evaluation of their genome maps, but is the result of a guesstimate of what crossovers occurred in the mother during oogenesis.

As far as our own evaluations for genealogy, there are really only three things that distinguish the X-chromosome from the autosomes:

  1. It has a unique inheritance chain that can be extremely informative.
  2. In males it comes packaged as naturally phased: we know exactly which parent donated it. That said, however, male-to-male test-taker comparisons hold no other special properties; the X has gone through crossover just like the autosomes with each and every maternal ancestor.
  3. The X is a bit...quirky and, while it goes through crossover in oogenesis, the result seems to be somewhat less predictable over generations than with the autosomes. A bunch of people have written about this, from Roberta Estes to Leanne Cooper to Jim Owston to Jared Smith.

All told, though, I agree with Blaine Bettinger's take in this paper. In a crowd-sourced study (not associated with the Shared cM Project) he looked at 250 grandchild/grandparent pairings. What he found was that the X-chromosome could be passed through intact, or go through as many as five crossovers, with an average of 1.655 crossovers per meiosis event. Part of the impetus for the project was a general view that there was something inherently different about crossover and the X-chromosome. There proved not to be. And a general takeaway is that, for genealogy, there's no reason to treat it any differently than the autosomes: i.e., segment sizes--regardless of male or female test-takers--should be evaluated and weighted just like autosomal segment sizes.

Thank you to everyone for the excellent responses. The 5 of us still living are meeting in November to do a fun filled group DNA party with Ancestry kits. Who knows what information lies ahead? This old lady got more confused the more I researched.

5 Answers

+7 votes
at the sibling level, any of them should give you the info you're looking for.

if you each use a different company, then upload your tests to gedmatch, so that you'll have a common place to compare.
by Dennis Wheeler G2G6 Pilot (575k points)
Presumably not an mtDNA test, since that would only establish a common birth mother.
+8 votes
I would recommend that you take autosomal DNA tests at AncestryDNA then upload the results to FTDNA, MyHeritage, LivingDNA and gedmatch. That will give you most effective access to multiple match lists for the money you spend. It will confirm whether you have full or half sibling relationships and give you a reasonable chance of being able to identify the unknown parents by analysing a wide pool of matches. If you want to include 23andme then someone would have to take their test as they do not accept uploads.
by Lynda Crackett G2G6 Pilot (673k points)
+6 votes
Assuming you live in America or the UK I think Ancestry have the most customers. FTDNA accept data from Ancestry but not the other way around. The Ancestry test involves giving a saliva sample. The FTDNA test has sticks to be rubbed on the inside of the cheek. If one of you has difficulty producing saliva that might influence your choice.

You want an autosomnal DNA test. Most of the companies only offer that. FTDNA offer a variety of tests and the Family Finder is the one you are after.

Who to test? Well the three with the unknown father(s). The matches you get beyond yourselves just give an estimate of how closely related you arevand not which side of the family it is. If you all have the same father you may have difficulty working out which side distant cousins are on. So I would recommend that you get one of the four brothers to test as well, as you only have your mother in common. Ideally more than one of them as each one gets a random selection from their parents.

As a side note if you get three or more siblings testing, it should be possible to do some DNA painting and work out chunks of DNA and assign them to grand parents. So it could be worthwhile all the four brothers testing if the money is avaliable. There is a chance that someone will get results they weren't expecting.

If you do a bulk order of kits take great care to note who gets each serial number. Getting them mixed up would be very confusing! Many companies do sales at various times of the year, so you might want to wait a little.

It will take about two months until the results are available. You can take the time to research the family tree you do know about.

Males can take a test with FTDNA to look at their Y chromosome. This might give a clue as to the surname of their father, but can be misleading if you get matches with someone who is genetically similar, but whose ancestor chose a different surname. FTDNA keep your DNA sample unless you say otherwise so can do more than one test on it until it runs out.

Good luck

Tim
by Tim Partridge G2G6 Mach 4 (41.3k points)
+3 votes
Everybody is right, of course, but maybe it'd be helpful if we back up a little. Let me focus on the sentence: "I am confused by all the advertisements and different DNA tests."

Here's the thing. The advertisements mostly just talk about estimates of ethnic breakdowns (we call it "admixture") or about medical things. These apparently help sell these tests to the general public, but you get something ELSE that is actually useful for real genealogy - DNA matches - with EVERY test, and as far as I know each is as accurate as the next with that.

They compare your DNA to others who have tested with the same company, and calculate a score based on how well your DNA matches the other person. This score is measured in units called centimorgans (cM). Ordinarily, the centimorgans don't give an exact relationship, but in the case of full siblings, it does - you'll see about 2300cM to 2950cM with full siblings, and no other relationship is in that range.

But you may not even need to know those numbers. On AncestryDNA, for example, my brothers show up in their own category, called "Immediate Family". Other companies may do something similar.

For half-siblings, it's slightly more ambiguous. A half-sibling will show the same number of cM as niece, nephew, aunt, uncle, grandparent or grandchild. But it will still tell you what you need to know. On AncestryDNA the category is "Close Family". My nephew shows up in that category for me, and your half-siblings should show up there for you.

Really, you might want to get everybody tested, just to make sure everything is as you have been told. (You never know!)

As others have said, if testing is done with different companies, you can all download a datafiles for each result and put them on GEDmatch (for free) to do the required comparison.

HOWEVER, let's not ignore all the other DNA matches that will undoubtedly appear! The can be THOUSANDS of them - a few may be relatively close relations, most will be 4th , 5th , 6th cousins and beyond. Since these are your biological relations -on BOTH sides - some of them will likely be from your biological father, and that gives you clues as to who he was - you may even be able to find out exactly who he was.

People in America tend to do the most testing, so if your dad was US born, and his family has been in the US for at least a few generations, and came from an average-sized family or bigger, chances are some have tested and there should be matches. It gets a bit more involved from there, but as you get deeper into it, using a feature called "Shared Matches" is key.

For this part, using AncestryDNA is the most useful, as others have explained. They have done the most tests, and while other companies will accept AncestryDNA data from you (for free) and show you matches, AncestryDNA won't take it from others.

Good luck!
by Living Stanley G2G6 Mach 9 (91.2k points)
Another consideration is that 23andMe is currently using the V5 special chip for their genome decoding. The results from the 23andMe test can only be used with GEDMatch "Genesis" (in Beta) form and other services such as FTDNA are not accepting it either.

I took the 23andMe and learned that I couldn't compare my test to my brother's ancestryDNA test on GEDmatch. I ended up taking the AncestryDNA test so we could compare.
0 votes
I tested with 23 and Me. It seemed pretty reliable with my siblings and even distant cousins. It showed how much DNA was shared and also on what chromosome.
by C Moore G2G6 (7.8k points)

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