Disproven Existence Notice - Thibault de Payen

+5 votes
In accordance with WikiTree Disproven Existence policy, no credible sourcing has been found for the following profiles:

De Payen-4,  De Payen-3, De-Payen-2, X-5660, Payen-32

They will be added to the Disproven Existence category and de-linked from any parents, spouses or children after a week, unless additional information confirming their existence can be found.    

This is a challenge -- we want well documented profiles of real people on WikiTree, so if you can turn any of these back into real people, it will be time well spent!
WikiTree profile: Thibault Payen
asked in Genealogy Help by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (251k points)
edited by Jack Day

1 Answer

0 votes
Absents of Evidence does not mean Evident of Absence.... However, I've studied a great deal of the payEn and the paynE... with many misspelling of the last wo letters in many census records. I am unable to locate De Payen-4,3&2 as a disproven existence and source.

Good Luck to All in this research. CHEERS!
answered by Anonymous Hyland G2G Crew (700 points)

In our case, we are in fact treating Absence of Evidence -- after thorough research and a week's consultation on G2G -- as Evidence of Absence.  You are of course, theoretically correct, so labelling a profile as "Disproven Existence" is not absolutely final -- the profile remains in place, and should evidence to the contrary emerge -- it is a very simple task to (1) add the documented evidence to the profile (2) remove the template and (3) connect the profile to the correct parents, spouses and children.

The profiles are locatable -- the first is 


Perhaps you had not put a space after the De.  These LNABs violate WikiTree standards, which call for the "De" to be eliminated, but it seemed a person who never existed probably could not have a correct LNAB!

On the logic:

In terms of pure logic, absence of evidence is indeed not enough evidence to PROVE absence. There are certainly going to be many people who lived and died who we have no evidence for.

However, in practical human endeavors we often have insufficient evidence to prove any option true or false and yet we still want to make a decision.

Very often therefore, in situations where we know which direction we want to play safe in, we speak of a "burden of proof". For example, when someone accuses someone else of a crime, the accused person is "innocent until proven guilty" and not "guilty until proven innocent". The reasoning is well-known.

Similarly, when it comes to writing an article about an historical person, if no one has any evidence that the person ever existed, we must surely place the burden of proof upon anyone who says an article deserves to be made?

But it remains true that there are many people who lived in the past who existed, and who we have no evidence for. We can not prove today whether or not any of them existed, and indeed we have nothing to say about them unless we make it up, or someone writing a website or book does it for us.

...So in practice we can't dedicate this Wiki's resources and volunteers to articles about "potential" people for whom there is no evidence.
Your RIGHT ....I'm WRONG... You WIN.... I'm SORRY...

I was simply responding to an interesting question.... it will never happen again.
Your RIGHT...I'm WRONG... You Win....I'm SORRY....

I was simply responding to a simple question.....it will never happen again.
I took the time to write out a full reply because the point you made appears to be a working assumption of many people on Wikitree. So apparently the question and the answer are not simple for everyone. That is not meant to be an insult to you or anyone else.

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