"Welcome to the Weekend Chat" All Members are Invited!! November 9-11, 2018 [closed]

+12 votes


New Members Saying Hello (our favorite!)

Puzzles and Tips 

"Today Is" 

Movies & Music

Where in the World ?  Share your photos!

Members Checking in via "All About the Weekend Chat"


Click here if Interested in Hosting the Weekend Chat and earning a Guest Host Sticker? 

CHANGE TO BEST ANSWER PROCESS:  After much discussion we have come to the conclusion that all answers in the Weekend Chat are of equal importance and weight.  So we are going to discontinue the Best Answer portion as it adds points and then takes them away from posters and is causing some hurt feelings.  So in the interest of everyone is equal and valued we will delete any best answers given which will deduct those points because it has been pointed out that to give everyone best answer is also not a viable option. 

Weekend Chat is for everyone. It's a place to catch up on what people are up to and to share what you've been doing.  New members can say hello, introduce themselves, ask questions, and meet each other.  Our seasoned members can share progress or successes from their projects, give tips and advice, or chime in on hot topics.

Post as many answers and comments as you wish. It doesn't hurt anyone to post a lot, and enjoy the multitude of topics.


Enjoy yourself and spread goodwill :)

WikiTree profile: Laura Bozzay
closed with the note: End of the Weekend Chat.
asked in The Tree House by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (468k points)
closed by David Selman
Welcome to the Weekend Chat!  November is in full swing.  Commercials have begun and some places are displaying holiday decorations.  We are all busy it seems!   Take a break and join us here on the Weekend Chat!
Thanks for hosting Laura and happy weekend!
Welcome Leah!  What is going on in your part of the world?
Thanks for hosting, Laura.
My pleasure.  I enjoy the great group of people who drop in.  So many really interesting people with such diverse backgrounds and interests and we have such amazing information that often comes out in posts.
Wait, so if we select a best answer we get points deducted?
Logan that is how G2G works everywhere.  If your post is selected as Best Answer you get extra points.  But if someone comes along later and selects someone else's answer as best you lose those points.  Because the Weekend Chat is not about Best but about Everyone Having Fun and Being Valued.  We do not use Best and will delete that marking which will deduct those points.  We just tell you why up front.
Remember to check out posts on page 2
Thanks Laura :) Mosty just cooler and raining (dog training in the rain is always just wonderful :p), but all 3 of my daughters spent the night with my parents last night so it's a very relaxing weekend as well!  Hope everything is going well on your end.  Are you still feeling better? ***I haven't read through everything yet so you might have already answered that***
Thanks Leah,  I am feeling much improved.  Was able to pick up one of the granddaughters with no pain last week and am able to do a bit more on the computer but I have to say limiting it was the key to success.   So I am not pushing myself in that direction yet.  

I had Alaskan Malamutes for over 20 years.  Training is a must when you have puppies that grow into bundles of fun that can weigh 135 pounds at full growth, stand 25" at the shoulder and had to have a specially made collar for one of the bigger males who had a 32" neck.   

One of my smaller ones, a female, had a half sister that won the Alaskan sled pulling contest years ago... pulled over 2000 pounds for 60 yards from a dead stop.  

I used to throw the traces in the car with at least one of my dogs in case I ever got stuck ..  no tow truck needed!

I also had a Maine Coon Cat.  McDuff would only ride in the car if one of the Mals was there too.  He used to stand under the Mal looking out the station wagon or suv window and I am sure that caused a stir driving down the city streets.  He thought he was a Mal and would run up to people and expect to get petted.  Not very cat like...  but he was raised with 6 Mals from the time he was a small kitten.  The Mals were a fun lot...they would line up and watch repair people...  Having a sled team of dogs who can bite through rolled steel is likely a bit unnerving.  Never had to call a repair person twice.  They made sure it was fixed and stayed that way!  

My boys learned to walk pulling up on the Mals and walking with them.  

The Mals were all command trained and I am sure it was unsettling to see a huge animal like that with a toddler crawling all ove it.  But the Mals were very good with the boys as they were growing up.  My youngest son, when he was in 7th grade,  took one of them in for show and tell and explained dog training.  That was of course a big hit.
You had Alaskan malamutes, too, Laura? Cool! We had two. They didn't like being inside the house so we had to keep them outside.
Yep and so did George Lucas who based Chewbacca on the breed.  I get that as mine were all woodelers.
I knew that about George Lucas's dog He rode in the passenger seat of the car, too.
Thanks to everyone who stopped by the Weekend Chat.  Hope you have a great week and that you will join us again next weekend.

38 Answers

+16 votes

Tips Nov 9

There has been a number of emails in the Data Doctor thread that deal with some interesting things that trigger “suggestions.”   So I thought it might be helpful to list a few of these so you know what not to do when entering data.

Do not use location abbreviations.  CA can be Canada, California, Central America, and possibly other things around the world.  So please spell out your country and other parts of a location.  There are two exceptions to this.  UK and USA are evidently ok and do not trigger a suggestion. 

Find A Grave seems to trigger a number of suggestions.  I do not want to start a discussion about should we even have any of them.  There are threads for that out in G2G.  But my tip is…  There were a number of technical discussions about the format of the reference but one thing that seems to trigger a suggestion is dropping in a URL for a related person on a profile where that Find A Grave reference is out of sink to the name on the profile.   Steven Tibbets summed up how this works with this note:

Original:  Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 03 November 2018), memorial page for Sgt Charles E. Mower (29 Nov 1924–3 Nov 1944), Find A Grave Memorial no. 8194218, citing Manila American Cemetery and Memorial, Manila, Capital District, National Capital Region, Philippines ; Maintained by Find A Grave .

edited to: Find A Grave, database and images (findagrave.com : accessed 03 November 2018), memorial page for Sgt Charles E. Mower (29 Nov 1924–3 Nov 1944), Find A Grave Memorial no. 8194218, citing Manila American Cemetery and Memorial, Manila, Capital District, National Capital Region, Philippines ; Maintained by Find A Grave . {{FindAGrave|8194218|sameas=yes/no}}

The first part is changed to avoid the 571 error. Answering yes will also do this but answering no will not. 

sameas=no avoids a 572 error.

sameas=yes makes it ignore all other references to findagrave and only compare that one to the profile.


I don’t use the template as shown in Steve’s example.  I copy and paste the entire URL and have so far not had the suggestions appear.  But I also make sure to explain that the URL is for the wife, child, or whoever I am using as a resource for that profile.  If a suggestion should then appear I know I can safely mark it as a false error. 


answered by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (468k points)
I don't bother adding FAG if I can avoid it but when I do I either use the citation from familysearch if I found it there or just copy the URL from the FAG page and don't usually have problems that way. I NEVER use the template, I just do not like it.
I hate location abbreviations in genealogy. I know it is the context that tells me if "NL" is Newfoundland and Labrador or the Netherlands, and in "normal life", when I have to write something down rather quickly, I also use them, but here on the tree, when I work with people I absolutely don't know, is not the place to put shortings in the location field.
Jelena, I’m with you all the way! No abbreviations!
I just use the {{FindAGrave|123456}} template. Yes, it should probably list more information than it does, but it seems to me that the way to add that information would be to edit what the template puts out. That way, as the template improves, any profile which has the template on it also improves, without people having to re-edit thousands of profiles by hand. (I'm a big believer in automation when it comes to large amounts of data. Anything that can be done by scripting should be done by scripting, to free up people to do what scripts can't.)
My problem with the template is I don't understand it and do not want to learn about it, besides what is the problem with just copying and pasting the citation family search so kindly provides for us to use. I feel that if we use their site we should be nice enough to respect their wishes about how the prefer to have their information cited.
Oh, I agree, Dale. When sourcing from FamilySearch, they do give a specific citation format that they want people to use, so when I sourced from FamilySearch, I used that format. Even though it's not the same as the pattern from Evidence Explained, it seems to me only right to use the format FS asks us to use, since they're providing the data for free.

(What I don't understand is why some people copy most of the citation, but strip out the URL. That's the part that people need to be able to find that exact record, so why remove it?)
That is ok Wikitree takes either version.  I prefer the full url because it is able to be researched even if the link no longer works.

I use the full citation from FindAGrave (not FamilySearch) found via the View Source link at the bottom of the page...then change it to include the template. So:

Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 9 November 2018), memorial page for Tabitha Whiting Tyler (17 Jun 1784–6 Jan 1864), Find A Grave Memorial no. 72926620, citing Perry Township Cemetery, Perry, Lake County, Ohio, USA ; Maintained by Find A Grave (contributor 8) .
gets changed to
She is buried in Perry Township Cemetery, Perry, Lake County, Ohio.<ref> Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 06 October 2018), memorial page for Tabitha Whiting Tyler (17 Jun 1784–6 Jan 1864), {{FindAGrave|72926620}}, citing Perry Township Cemetery, Perry, Lake County, Ohio, USA ; Maintained by Find A Grave (contributor 8) . </ref>
Ideally, the WikiTree Find A Grave template should be modified so that it produces the full citation text that Find A Grave suggests. That's what a template can do. We shouldn't have to copy a citation, and put the template inside that.
Eric you can either send Ales an email with your suggestions on how to change it or post it in a technical thread in G2G.  I agree if the template is causing an issue either modify it or give instructions on how to properly use it.   I think what Steven tried to do was the latter.

I only use Find A Grave as a secondary source, particularly if there is no other primary source for a death date and only if there is an actual photograph of the grave marker. 

One of the reasons FAG is dubious as a secondary source are the countless memorial pages that have either no photo of the grave marker - or when a marker is not available, some citation regarding where the dates came from.

I don't bother with the template, but cite it as follows: 

    • Photo submitter's Surname, First name <photo submitter's email address>,"Grave marker for Ancestor's name as written on grave marker", jpeg image, Find A Grave (Online: Ancestry.com, 2013), [Original grave marker located: Cemetery Name, City, State, Country], <link to actual image>
    Though more time consuming, as a source citation it provides much more information for researchers to find and review the source. It clearly indicates that the source is from an image of the grave marker (and links to the image)... and not just one of the thousands of source-less FAG memorial pages. This citation format follows recommendation from ProGenealogists. I have not had any data errors/suggestions with this format.
    Jana that is a great idea.  Kay you always have very well resourced profiles!

    Eric, Greg, Dale, Pip and Jelena everyone has had a lot of really good things to add to this thread.  

    I know we are not going to solve all the issues that create Find A Grave suggestions but I do think there has been a lot of really good info in this thread.   Thanks everyone for participating and sharing what you do!
    +12 votes

    Montana Puzzle

    Montana was admitted to the union on November 8, 1889 as the 41st state.  The WikiTree Montana Project https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Montana is a subset of the US History Project  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:United_States_History

    Leaders: Sarah Heiney and Ellen Smith

    Answer our G2G welcome post to join the United States History project and get a badge.

    Add US_HISTORY to your followed tags.

    We use G2G for communication. 

    A coordinator for the Montana subproject is needed

    Seek and Find people, places, and things associated with Montana.  Answers will run vertically, horizontally, diagonally and forwards / backwards.  35 words or phrases.    Answers are in the answer folder and docx and pdf version is located at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rqo8mt2eobujwgd/AAAzB3IGNHqNKXBfdE985NBZa?dl=0

    answered by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (468k points)
    +16 votes
    Hello Wikipeeps.

    This is your friendly Kiwi here.

    Not much to report this week. I finally received a list of 13 children from a relative that I had been asking for, for some time. But this list has no dates. Since these children were all born less than 100 years ago, I still cannot add them to Wikitree as I have no access to birth records for them. NZ has 100 years restriction on birth records.

    I am also unable to detemine when they died since the guys have fairly common names and I dont know who the girls married.

    So the list is not much help to me for now.

    I also finally discovered more family members of my mothers maternal family - the Stephens - who emigrated from Cornwall to New Zealand. Once ONE Person emigrates to a specific country, then everyone else back home also seems to gravitate to that same country.

    This is rather surprising since noone from this family are even attempting to emigrate to Canada, Australia or the USA.

    Which is frustrating because I have an American adoptee DNA match with a high cM of Shared DNA (over 100 cM) and matches to others from my Stephens family, but I cannot find the person who moved to the USA.

    My family chat starts in 3 hours - since Canada has now dropped out of daylight savings. My mother and sister were not available last weekend so I have 2 weeks to catch up on.

    The weather is getting colder here in Ontario. Temps this weeks will be below 6 degrees. Snow is threatening to come in from the west, but no sign of it yet.

    The renovations on our apartment are finally done, so hopefully we can finally unpack everything and get back to some normal living. We have not been able to watch TV for 4 months!!  Thank goodness for tablets,  computers and the internet!! LOL
    answered by Robynne Lozier G2G6 Pilot (500k points)
    edited by Robynne Lozier
    Hi Robynne!  You have lots going on!  

    Concerning your US connection... it could be the person from the US went to New Zealand and then returned to the US.  It may have been someone in business or the military.   

    I know what you mean about lists of names with no dates or other info needed to use them in genealogy.  Good luck tracking that down.
    Hi Laura.

     This adoptee was born in the USA (and still lives there). so I'm thinking he had a parent or grandparent (probably male)  who was from either England or NZ. Thats what I am looking for.  This adoptee has absolutely NO records of his adoption - or does not have access to them.
    So possible scenarios that come to mind...

    1.  Student from NZ comes to US for College and baby is result born in US

    2.  Business person comes to US for some time and baby is result born in US

    3.  Military or governmentally aligned person from NZ comes to US for some time and result is baby born in US

    You get the idea...  

    Some states have tighter laws concerning adoption than others.  What state was he born in?   

    A federal law mandates that all states are required to at least provide what is called the Non Identifying Information Report.  Do you know if he has requested that?
    He was born in Chicago Illinois!!

    Currently lives in Colorado.

    I did ask if he had requested non-identifying info and I think he said that he was not given anything - but I will go back over my emails to check what he actually said. It is possible that he has not asked for this - and maybe wants me to do all of the work? In which case - I wont bother...


    2 important points from the link above:

    Illinois is a closed state regarding adoptions. Therefore, once an adoption is completed, the original birth record with the biological parent(s) listed and all associated documentation will become part of a sealed Illinois Department of Public Health file.    BUT

    Request an Original Birth Certificate (OBC)

    I was adopted, can I obtain an original birth record?

    Public Act 96-0895, which became effective May 21, 2010, makes it possible for an adult adoptee or surrendered person born in Illinois, who is 21 years or older, to request a non-certified copy of his or her original birth. This act also allows birth parents of adopted or surrendered persons born on or after January 1, 1946, to specify their wishes with regard to contact and to the release of their identifying information.

    Request for a Non-Certified Copy of Original Birth Certificate – To find this document, go to FORMS in the right-hand column. This form is to be submitted along with a copy of a valid government issued photo identification (ID) and a check or money order for $15 made payable to Illinois Department of Public Health.

    I am the birth parent of an adopted person, can I obtain a copy of the original birth record?

    Public Act 98-0704, which became effective January 1, 2015, makes it possible for a birth mother or birth father of an adult adopted person born in Illinois to request a non-certified copy of the original birth record as it was filed at the time of the birth.

    Birth Parent Request for a Non-Certified Copy of an Original Birth Certificate - To find this document, go to FORMS in the right-hand column. This form is to be submitted along with a copy of a valid government issued photo identification (ID) and a check or money order for $15 made payable to Illinois Department of Public Health.

    Perhaps your adoptee was a foreign adoption and his birth certificate reflects that he was born in the US because his adoptive parents were US citizens? I don't really know anything about adoption.
    Thanks Laura. I will pass on those details about requesting an OBC to him and see what happens.

    My mother requested her OBC (in NZ) and I was able to trace her mothers family all the way back to the 1600s.
    Lucy whether the child was born a US citizen or a foreign national when a legal adoption is done in he US a new birth certificate is issued by the officiating state (the state where the parents and child will live).  What that certificate says varies by state.  Whether it even shows the native country varies by state.
    +13 votes
    This week I gave up on working on the suggestions. That does not mean I am no longer fixing problems, it just means I am no longer worrying about the suggestion report. Most of those from my watchlist are for almost empty biographies or unusual names and those will get corrected when I edit the profile so I went back to editing the profiles from the earliest last edit date working forward. Diane is going for the first of three follow up visits to 3 different doctors shortly but I think she is recovering just fine. My granddaughter failed her drivers license test but will try again next Friday. On Tuesday I took my Skywarn refresher course and tomorrow I will help teach the last half of the Ham radio course we started last Saturday. Then Sunday afternoon I will be helping give the ham radio test's for anyone who shows up. I will check in when I can and work on some profiles as time allows but don't expect anything major.
    answered by Dale Byers G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
    Glad Diane is recovering. Hopefully all is well soon!

    A lot of people fail the test the first time...which I think is sometimes done by design to impress on new drivers that it is hard and pay attention.  

    You are always busy!
    Dale,  my grandson failed in his first try two weeks ago. Passed it in the second try. My grandparents were glad when I finally got mine. Chauffeur business for them!

    So glad to here Diane is doing better. Keep us posted.

    Cold up there yet?
    +17 votes
    Hi Fellow WikiChatterers,

    Thanks Laura, for hosting the Weekend Chat!

    I’ve been working more in greeting and the Integrators Challenge this month, so I’ve done a lot less on my own family lately, mostly just writing better bios with inline sourcing. No new breakthroughs.

    A rainy and cold 48F here in the North Carolina mountains, making it a good day to read and do a little genealogy. I’ll certainly have more time as the weather here can be pretty nasty for outside work. The leaf-change is over and the trees are looking a little bare. At least mowing season is over!

    Still anticipating my daughter’s wedding in January. My input in all the planning is, “Yes, dear!” Makes life so much easier! (It’s also the secret to a happy marriage!!)

    Mom has been a little under the weather. I think losing her last sibling has taken a little bit of a toll on her. Fortunately, she’s just up the road, so I can spend time with her. She’s seems to need that right now, and I am more than happy to oblige. She’ll be 92 in a couple of months.

    Hope all is going well with everyone. Just want to say thank you to all of my fellow Wikitreers for assistance and guidance. You are a very special bunch of people.
    answered by Pip Sheppard G2G Astronaut (1m points)
    Pip I have seen my older relatives react the same way when they loose someone in their age group but more so when it is a sibling or close relative.  It is great you can be there to help her through the grief.  

    Thanks for all the new responsibility you have taken on to help WikiTree ad its members.  Your efforts are very much appreciated.  

    Stay warm!  Here in the St Louis area it is 36 F and cloudy.  Shiver!  They even thought there could have been snow last night but from what I can see we did not get it.  Which is fine with me!
    Good luck with your mom, man. It's gotta be a tough road. Hang in there!

    And yea the trees are bare here, too. One rainstorm and FOOMP all the leaves fell. Some branches, too. They ended up getting embedded in the grass.
    Zactly what happened here. One rain and all the leaves gone! Was pretty while it lasted.
    Laura, when my mom goes, MY generation will then become the oldest! I keep kidding her that she will out live the three of us. She doesn’t like hearing that too much!

    She said something sad today. She was showing me pictures and said I could have them since she doesn’t have anyone left (of her generation) to share them with. She gave them to me.
    Pip I feel for you but I can't think of a better person to trust with those photos that mean so much to her.  You understand their importance to your heritage.  Will respect them and protect them and more importantly share them and their stories.

    My parents and my father in law died in 2015 between July 1 and November 16.  My aunt is the last of my mother's line and my mother in law is the last of her line.  Both often say similar things to your Mom and it is hard to hear.  We have the photos and stories from both.

    You are doing a really good thing.
    Thanks, Laura. I really appreciate that!
    Went through the photos thing with my mom. She was the last of the family and for some reason ended up with most of the photos from her mother even though she was the youngest. Before she did give them to me, we went through and labeled the ones she recognized. If they aren't all labeled, you might want to do a few "memory lane" sessions with her. It will be another way to let her know that the pictures are appreciated and that the past won't be entirely forgotten. You might even put together a memory book highlighting some of the important people and times for her so she can have a preserved version of pictures. Another way to let her know things will be remembered.
    +17 votes

    Thanks for hosting, Laura!

    Greetings, WikiCousins!

    It's been a busy week for me, continuing my lower-case genealogical activities and enjoying the spectacular fall weather.  I focused my attention on the '0cen' Unsourced profiles, and spent time sourcing, improving, and connecting the Todds and Seniors in New York, the Sinclairs and Byrons, who I tracked from Scotland through Canada to Chicago, and the Knapps of Dutchess County, New York. 

    The 0cen list holds a large number of probably living people. I adopted and Unlisted a few, but that seems like an unsustainable course.

    And, I took a break for some origami:

    Tax monkey - Jo Nakashima (yes, he is blue).



    answered by Herbert Tardy G2G6 Pilot (341k points)
    True. Then again this game game out ages ago. I honestly don't remember more about the game than its bad translation.

    Pronounced 'meem.'  WikiTree has a page full of them.  How do I get my 'all your profile' meme included there?

    Meme is pronounced "Me-ehm"

    Usually a meme is some picture or video that has gone viral. =)
    Wow. I didn't know that page existed until now and I've been here a year! I would send a message to Eowyn about it.
    Yeah that page was created a long time ago and is found here:


    I have used it but that does not mean I totally understand the concept!  

    What can I say... at my age I am happy with I am able to do!

    It's an Open free-space page.  I figured it out.  cool

    Well, at least you know this equation:

    The number of kittens in a video plus ads= profit!
    Hahaha! Good one, Herbert! ... offending primates!! Hahaha!
    When I see "meme," I think grandmother. Of course the accents are missing on the vowels.:-)
    Oh that is too funny!
    +16 votes

    Weekend Chat friends who have been recognized in the past week.  

    Nov 2 through Nov 8.  Some of our members get recognized every week and sometimes more than once because they are Mentors or in positions were they are always helping others.  These are volunteer positions and therefore I included them here for our group to see.  If I have missed someone please add the recognition here!  

    Congratulations to everyone who has been recognized!











    answered by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (468k points)
    +18 votes
    Hails and horns, Wikipeeps!

    This week's genealogical adventures were all about pictures apparently. My great-aunt and her daughter dug through drawers and drawers to find some pictures to show me. They found my great-grandfather, Vincenzo and Nicole (my great-aunt) and a picture of her mother's sister, Caterina. They took pics of the pics and sent 'em along.

    Caterina has descendants still living in Italy. So naturally I took the pics and sent them via Facebook. Very cool pics of course.  Am hoping to see more. I will of course be patient. Kinda have to be ya know?

    Not much else to report as I've been working on a 60 panel comic. Should be up tomorrow. My readers will not be prepared for the feels.

    Have a great weekend!
    answered by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (195k points)
    Everyone seems busy this week!   For those in the US it is the flurry after Halloween and before Thanksgiving... just a few weeks before a lot of folks take some vacation days!
    Halloween was great this year. We got a truck load of kids for the first time in decades. New neighbors! And since we gave out full sized candy the little sugar addicts will be back next year! =D

    As far as Thanksgiving goes, we will be going away. I'll still post so don't worry!



    Just a note to thank you for posting the link to Blaine Bettinger’s video several weeks ago about quick and dirty trees. I had attempted a mirror tree in the past to confirm my my mother’s paternity without any success. For some reason the light bulb went off during Blaine’s explanation and I was able to confirm the rumor about my mother’s paternity. It was made difficult by surnames shared by both her mother and her biological father, but Blaine’s explanation was the ticket I needed. So, thank you! Thankfully, hacking off that tree limb wasn’t nearly as painful as hacking off the tree limb of my father’s non-paternal line. But that is a another story.


    Erin just keep working at it. Often with adoptees it is one step forward, 2 back then 4 forward...  often the biggest clues come from the least likely sources.   Think like a private detective instead of like a genealogist because often the records you are used to using are not going to be available to you.

    Thanks for the encouragement, Laura. In my case, I am not adopted and neither were my parents. I just have two grandmothers who named men who were not their children’s father on their birth certificates. surprise If not for DNA tests, I would never have known. 


    You're welcome! I'm glad I could help. Blaine's vid is very easy to understand. I suggest everyone should check it out. The method works really well for adoptees and the like. If you want to thank him "in person", check out his Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/geneticgenealogytipsandtechniques/

    And if anyone wants to see the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmOZXCxsqNU

    Keep up the good work, Erin! You're doing great!
    +15 votes

    Today is..... 



    National Scrapple Day is observed annually on November 9th. Scrapple is arguably the first pork food invented in America. For those who are not familiar with scrapple, which is also known by the Pennsylvania Dutch name “pon haus,“ it is traditionally a mush of pork scraps and trimmings combined with cornmeal, wheat flour and spices.  (The spices may include but are not limited to sage, thyme, savory and black pepper.)  The mush is then formed into a semi-solid loaf, sliced and pan-fried.

    The immediate ancestor of scrapple was the Low German dish called panhas, which was adapted to make use of locally available ingredients and, in parts of Pennsylvania, it is still called Pannhaas, panhoss, ponhoss or pannhas.

    It was in the 17th and 18th centuries that the first recipes for scrapple were created by Dutch colonists who settled near Philadelphia and Chester County, Pennsylvania.   Hence the origin of its discovery, it is strongly associated with rural areas surrounding Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington D.C., eastern Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, eastern Virginia and the Delmarva Peninsula.

    • Scrapple can be found in supermarkets throughout the area in both refrigerated and frozen cases.
    • Home recipes for beef, chicken and turkey scrapple are available.
    • Scrapple is sometimes deep-fried or broiled instead of pan frying.
    • Scrapple is typically eaten as a breakfast side dish.
    • Condiments are sometimes served with scrapple, some of which include apple butter, ketchup, jelly, maple syrup, honey, horseradish or mustard.


    Have some scrapple. Following are a few scrapple recipes for you to try:


    answered by Dorothy Barry G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
    I don't think I have ever had scrapple.  I have hard the term.  I have had cracklings. Are the pork trimmings like cracklings in the hash?

    Sounds like a more regional dish.  

    Thanks for sharing it Dorothy!
    I LOVE scrapple Dorothy. My grandmother used to make it from scratch. The problem is I am the only one in my house that likes it so I very rarely buy it when I see it in the stores.
    I think I’d rather have livermush. But you do make it sound good, Dorothy.
    Livermush?   Shudder.....
    Laura, I imagine you could use pork, or ham or whatever as some receipes may include, but I like chicken myself; and yeap.... I was thinking the same thing Laura: Pip, my friend, liver yuck lol!

    Dale, that must have brought back some great memories around the table. Thanks for sharing!!  I don't think my mother or grandmother knew about scrapple, don't remember eating it back in the 60's.

    Aye, no good Ulster Scot breakfast is complete without livermush. You have absolutely no idea what you’re missing!!


    Since livermush has has a Wikipedia article, it qualifies for NPP... Notables Project Protection!

    Aberdeenshire ancestry....  no liver mush that I know of
    Dorothy, this post did bring back memories. My grandmother was of German decent, her mothers LNAB was Yeager, and lived near the Amish area of Pennsylvania so she did a lot of the same style cooking as you would find in that area. One year my parents and my grandmother purchased a whole hog and had it butchered so we had plenty of Scrapple as well as head cheese for that year.
    Thank you Dorothy for the scrapple recipes, I am adding it to my list of recipes to try.  I don't think if I will do the liver mush though.
    Scrapple!  Brings back my youth in Pennsylvania. We were poor most of the time, so scrapple was a staple.  It's good if you smother it with ketchup.
    +15 votes

    My team captain T-shirt from the Clean-a-thon FINALLY showed up in the mail!!

    It fits very well. I will post a picture during the weekend sometime!!

    Thanks heaps!!
    answered by Robynne Lozier G2G6 Pilot (500k points)
    Woohoo! That makes two of us, Robynne!! I’ve been wearing mine around see if I can find anyone else here who might be on WikiTree.

    Eowyn, I love my shirt!!!

    Now I’ve got two!
    Congrats!   Super cool!
    +15 votes
    Hi all!

    I hope all you enjoy your weekend. I had some enlightening moments this week, on and off Wiki-Tree.

    Here comes a little linguistic digression, something which got on me this week. I realized there is a connection between the Portuguese word "breve" (short) and abBREViation. I never saw that before. Would be interesting to see if Mindy was conscious about that.

    * "Better late than never". I FINALLY started to learn how to do inline links. Sometimes it still doesn't work the way it should, but it works more often than earlier.
    Genealogy-wise I started to scan the letters my grandma wrote her sister. Infact I scanned until now more letters my dad sent her. There was a letter he sent after his marriage. His aunt had obviously asked what she could send them as marriage present, and my mum answered she'd like a meat grinder. I still didn't find the letter with that wish, but in the letter afterwards (which is a letter I scanned) mum wrote some lines: "No I don't want to put my husband in the grinder!" She must have made a mistake (in her not yet very good German) and my grandaunt had a question. LOL, I think, I would have had also questions.

    EDIT to tell you: YES, I KNOW that Portuguese has Latin origins. YES I know that English is actually vocabulary-wise one of the hardest languages to learn because it has a huge vocabulary just because there are words from the germanic languages as well as from the romanic (aka Latin rooted) languages. One example is "ghost" (germanic) or "spirit" (romanic).
    answered by Jelena Eckstädt G2G6 Pilot (109k points)
    edited by Jelena Eckstädt

    Breve is a Portuguese word because of its Latin origins.  It must also be an Italian word (from the same source), because there's a musical term 'alla breve,' aka 'cut time,' meaning 'play all the notes half as long as they look on the chart.'

    I know that, because something like 90% or even more of the Portuguese vocabulary has Latin roots, That's why I can get along in a Latin text, but don't dare to translate it as I never learned Latin itself, which means I don't have any clue about its grammar.
    Oh my, husband and meat grinder....  too funny.   I know in German the word order is very different than in English which creates some very funny translations.  

    Example:  My friend's mother is German.  She often speaks English but uses the German word order so she was heard to say "Throw your father down the stairs his hat!"  Which can sound like she wanted to throw him down the stairs instead f his hat.  

    In English that would have been "Throw your Father's hat down the stairs."   

    So I have to believe it was something like that!

    late Middle English: from late Latin abbreviat- ‘shortened,’ from the verb abbreviare, from Latin brevis ‘short.’

    I had 4 years of Latin....  

    The English word brief is also related.

    brief (adj.)

    c. 1300, bref, "of short duration;" early 14c., "small with respect to length, short;" from Latin brevis(adj.) "short, low, little, shallow," from PIE *mregh-wi-, from root *mregh-u- "short."

    I have heard there are a lot of short people in Brevard County, Florida.
    Jelena, old 1928 Book of Common Prayer has “ghost,” keeping the old English word (from the German). In German it’s geist, from whence we get poltergeist.
    Oh Pip, I know that "Geist" is a German word. German is my native language ;). And the only thing I wanted to say with "breve" and "abbreviation" and all that was that for all the years I know Portuguese (and that's been a few years in the meanwhile) it never occured me before that the Portuguese word is "incorporated" in the English word.
    I think breve came from Latin to English, just as it came into Portuguese. In any case, Jelena, you are right about English being a difficult language to learn. Too many languages contributed to it.

    I remember learning a little Old English in my history studies. I find it a much more expressive language than much of modern English. The Germanic roots are fascinating to me. It’s a shame that so many truly great Old English words dropped out.

    The English word "brevity" is also derived from the Latin.

    English is in the Germanic family of languages due mostly to its grammar.

    However, about 1/3 of English vocabulary is from French, because of the Norman Conquest of England in 1066. Because French is derived from Latin, English will have a lot of Latin based words as well. Plus it has a lot of vocabulary from ancient Greek. Because English absorbs from many languages, it has many different rules and exceptions to those rules.

    If you want your brain to hurt, I suggest taking a look at the poem, The Chaos, at the link below. Try to read it out loud.


    I love this Eric!  It of course shows why it is often said English is one of the hardest languages to learn.   And when you throw in idioms it gets even more difficult.
    I have to send that to my friend who was a "German as a foreign language"-teacher at a university. This poem is impossible to read loud when you don't know the pronounciation of the words, but that is just the trick at it.
    +15 votes
    This weekend should be quieter than last week's.  Last Saturday, I was heading out to give a presentation and I twisted my knee and ankle.  Since I was the presenter, I had to be there.  I shoved on my shoes, drove an hour, gave three one-hour presentations on using DNA to a group of genealogists, and then drove home and pried my shoe off my swollen foot.  I have been limping all week, but I had a great time (just so long as I did not turn to the left -- pain!)  This weekend I think I will sit with my leg up and work on WikiTree.  We have our first real cold weather here and the leaves are at an end.  A good time to be indoors.
    answered by Michelle Enke G2G6 Mach 7 (77.7k points)
    Sorry to hear about the injury! Been there, done that. And it was (and occasionally still is) the left turn that gets me in my knee.

    Cold weather is great for working in WikiTree because just who is willing to do outside work now! I’m glad for it!
    I hope you feel better soon, Michelle. Take care, the ligaments can be a pain in the ... body sometimes, as you know now. I'm happy that my knee problems are more or less over now. Occasionally still a bit of pain, but compared to the years of problems I had before my last surgery, that's near to nothing.
    Michelle I hope you feel better soon!   Keep off it and keep it elevated to promote healing.  If it keeps hurting think about making sure it is not more seriously injured than a light sprain.  Having broken ankles, feet and toes it is always a good idea to get a professional to look at an injury!  

    It snowed here last night but nothing stuck to the street.  Stay warm and baby yourself!
    +14 votes

    Back in September, I was wandering around on Wikipedia, and I came across the entry for Library and Archives Canada, which is much beloved by Canadian genealogists for making available transcriptions, and even scans, of things like census records, passenger lists, military records, and other sources which make our work so much easier.

    Down at the bottom of the entry, there's a list of "Former National Archivists and Dominion Archivists." "Oh-ho!" think I, "Since archives are so essential to genealogy, archivists are kind of our heroes, so why not show our appreciation for their work by commemorating them?" The thought appealed to me for that reason, plus the fact that I could run a string of succession boxes that didn't involve politicians, and that doing up a series of profiles for archivists of Canada, British Columbia, and Vancouver (my home town) shouldn't entail all that many people, and thus give me that rarest of treats in genealogy, a project that could reasonably be completed in a relatively short time.

    So far, WikiTree has profiles for the following:

    Name Position Connected?
    Douglas Brymner Dominion Archivist (Canada) No
    Arthur Doughty Dominion Archivist (Canada) No
    Gustave Lanctôt Dominion Archivist (Canada) No
    William Kaye Lamb Dominion Archivist (Canada), Provincial Archivist (British Columbia) No
    Wilfred I. Smith Dominion Archivist (Canada) Yes
    Jean-Pierre Wallot Dominion Archivist (Canada) No
    Robert Edward Gosnell Provincial Archivist (British Columbia) No
    Ethelbert O.S. Scholefield Provincial Archivist (British Columbia) Yes
    John Forsyth Provincial Archivist (British Columbia) No
    John Hosie Provincial Archivist (British Columbia) No
    Willard Ireland Provincial Archivist (British Columbia) No
    James Skitt Matthews City Archivist (Vancouver) Yes

    Wikipedia has a number of similar entries:

    So some of you may have already added more archivists to WikiTree, but these are the only ones currently listed under the Archivists category. 

    answered by Greg Slade G2G6 Pilot (191k points)
    Greg, does Canada have a National Biography like England?
    I know the LAC also has a section for theses, where they make available theses from since 1965. Theses can be a good resource when you know your relative got a degree. In my family I found the theses of my granduncle and his wife. Both of them were veterinarians. The dates when they got their degrees were very interesting. My granduncle finished his studies in 1955 and his wife (who was only 3 years younger) only in 1966. The clue to that difference is in the family history. They got children and the mother stayed for some years at home, or at least couldn't focus as much as needed on her studies.
    I love using the Canadian Archives for researching my Canadian line.

    Thanks for giving recognition to those hard working archivists.
    As a fellow archivist, I appreciate that someone else appreciates us!  We are sometimes called the "Lone Arranger" since we frequently work in the back room, arranging other people's papers!

    Pip, do you mean a dictionary of biography? If so, yes, we have the Dictionary of Canadian Biography, among other resources.

    +15 votes
    The past week was exhausting genealogically. I did solve the problem in my SLIG class. It was DNA oriented but the DNA part was the 14 matches with the person looking for her father. One included an X match which helped. Still, a lot of work cutting off branches of trees to find the relevant ones. While I solved it, I don't think I learned much new.

    Still working on end of season canning. Started the sauerkraut and did a bunch of pickled cabbage. Just finished today's stuff -- Onion-Rosemary confit.

    Tonight we go off to an art show at a gallery that friends of ours will be showing in. Good way to start the weekend.
    answered by Doug McCallum G2G6 Pilot (258k points)

    Doug you are always busy!  Congrats on solving the DNA puzzle.  

    As an Adoption Angel we deal with that a lot...  sometimes it is pretty clean cut and there are close matches and it goes fast and easy... other times it is more convoluted and the closest matches are actually fairly far away for autosomal testing.  

    If you want to see what I do I wrote this up for new Adoption Angels a while back.  I probably need to become more acquainted with some of the new things out there now and up date it... but if you are curious you can find it here:


    +15 votes

    Found this link posted on a profile (for different reasons).

    It's from "The Friend" published in Philadelphia in 1862.

    The bit about "Living frog found in coal"...


    answered by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (433k points)
    That is amazing...  I would love someone who knows how long it takes for coal to form at that location be able explain it...    Was the hole big enough for the frog to fit through?  The stuff you learn on a Weekend Chat boggles my mind!
    I also liked the story of the burglar under the bed.
    +15 votes
    Good weekend.

    Keeping it short, leaving to watch a basketball game soon.

    As to weather, well our new RV apparently was able to leave Indiana before the snowfall; the RV arrived in Virginia today. Although we're anxious to pick it up, researching insurance is not fun.

    Genealogy wise, I've still been digging in land records. Found an interesting one today. According to a published family genealogy the couple had three sons. Sure enough, in 1840 they sold land to each of the three sons for $500 and purchased that same land from each of the sons for $2000 on the same day. Guess something about taxes never goes away....
    answered by Kay Sands G2G6 Pilot (194k points)
    That really is interesting.
    I wonder what tax they wanted to evade?  There was no US income tax in 1840.  Maybe they had transfer taxes on property.

    I was not in the tax biz in 1840, but I know that would not fly today.  If discovered, it would be characterized as a sequence of transactions lacking economic substance, effected pursuant to a plan to evade taxes.  And punished harshly.  $2000 1840 dollars would be equivalent to about $54,000 today, if anyone wonders.
    Herb - I wondered too. I’ve seen similar in other families. Obviously Samuel and Tabitha wanted to give both land and money to the kids. Six years later, after he died, she did a quit claim deed for $1 to one of the sons who had received a life lease on one of the plots of land.

    One of the really great things about New York land records is that they list name and his wife name. Pretty cool since there are typically no church or municipal marriage records in the timeframe and location (probably since there weren’t churches or municipalities)
    That is interesting, Kay.  I need to upgrade my land-record skills!
    +17 votes
    I came across an interesting genealogical find while researching my great grandfather's family in Rumno.  For about a dozen years or so in that village, both the church and state copies of the baptisms survive and are available on FamilySearch.  What makes the case of his half sister, Anna, so interesting is that one copy was written in Latin, while the other was written in Ukrainian (Cyrillic script).

    Since there is a period of time in that village where the records are only kept in Cyrillic, it's nice to have a Rosetta Stone of sorts to decipher things more easily.  Oddly, most of the records from her year of birth are only in Latin, so this seems to be a happy accident.

    For those curious, I've linked below the Latin copy of the baptism, and then the one in Cyrillic.  It's the one that took place on 10 February 1875:

    "Україна, дуплікати метричних книг Західно-Української Католицької церкви, 1600-1937," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RSH-9GR?cc=1910265&wc=QV25-XM9%3A180600901%2C203234401%2C203243601 : 22 May 2014), Greek Catholic > Rumno (Komarno) > Births, marriages, deaths (народження, шлюби, смерті) 1871-1878 v. 201-4A/1410 > image 63 of 164; Main Archives Admistration, Kiev, Ukraine.

    "Україна, дуплікати метричних книг Західно-Української Католицької церкви, 1600-1937," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRSH-9B1?cc=1910265&wc=QVKJ-6KX%3A180600901%2C203234401%2C203235501 : 22 May 2014), Greek Catholic > Rumno (Komarno) > Births (народження) 1867-1875 v. 201-4A/1409 > image 99 of 104; Main Archives Admistration, Kiev, Ukraine.
    answered by Greg Lavoie G2G6 Pilot (154k points)

    Urrgh, and again I saw I hate handwritten cyrillic italics. I mean, I really hate them. In prints they are still somehow ok, but handwritten.,,, puke! (Sorry not sorry.)

    Hey Greg, Anna's mother is a Maria (just in case you didn't know it before) wink

    You lucked out good for you
    Very cool!
    The handwritten Latin/Polish can be a little quirky as well.  For example, the cursive ł (as in Szyło) looked like a t to me when I first started researching the area.
    +16 votes
    Happy weekend, everyone!  Relatively light week of genealogy here so far... back to one of my brick walls.  Knee-deep in Killingsworths and Delaware geography now.  I feel like I'm closing in on Annie Killingsworth's parents but haven't actually figured them out yet.  

    Tomorrow I'm getting together with my mom and family so I can finally meet the "new" second cousin who got us started on all of this when she did DNA testing and contacted us a couple of years ago.  Plus I'm hoping we can dive into the box of old family bibles and see what treasures might lurk in there.
    answered by Lisa Hazard G2G6 Mach 2 (29.1k points)
    Well sounds like a lot of fun! Let us know how your detective work pans out!
    Oh, Lisa, I hope you find some great treasures and such!
    +13 votes

    Quick question. I'm not really sure how to word this for a greater g2g post, but, this does stem from the last few posts I've made where I discuss the Coppola family I am connected to. 

    I forgot to mention in my initial post this afternoon that I found another Coppola. His name is Giovanni Coppola. I think he might be a brother to Caterina, Concetta and Paolo. Here are the facts:

    1. He was born in San Pietro a Maida along with the other three and settled in Haverhill, Mass like Paolo and Concetta did.

    2. I have a DNA match with his descendants.

    I haven't been able to figure out if he was their brother but the births line up pretty well. 

    Caterina: 1872

    Giovanni: 1875

    Concetta: 1882

    Rose Stella: 1883

    Paolo: 1886

    For now I e-mailed the San Pietro a Maida commune office and asked for info on Giovanni's parents since my DNA matches don't have anything but the year of birth and where he was born. I might ask my great-aunt if she remembers Giovanni since she remembers Paolo and Concetta.

    What are your thoughts on this? 

    answered by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (195k points)
    Do you see the amount of DNA you share with each of them?  The number should help you determine where he might fit in the tree.
    Yeah I have. =D And I used Blaine Bettinger's Shared cM project for help. They all seem to be in the same ballpark as the matches who came from Concetta and Paolo. It's worth checking out.
    Hoping for excellent results on this one, Chris!
    Me too. The ball is in the commune office's court. They should tell me all the info I need sooner or later. =D
    +13 votes

    Today is.... 


    National Vanilla Cupcake Day is observed annually on November 10. This is a day for dessert lovers across the country to celebrate and indulge.

    Cupcakes have also been known to be called:

    • Fairy Cakes
    • Patty Cakes
    • Cup Cakes (different from Cupcakes (one-word)

    Cupcakes can be traced back to 1796 when a recipe notation for a cake to be baked in small cups was written in American Cookery (by Amelia Simmons).  The earliest known documentation of the term cupcake was in 1828 in Seventy-five Receipts for Pastry, Cakes, and Sweetmeats in Eliza Leslie’s Receipts cookbook.

    Cupcakes were originally baked in heavy pottery cups.  Today, some bakers still use individual ramekins, small coffee mugs, larger teacups, or other small ovenproof pottery-type dishes for baking their cupcakes.


    To celebrate National Vanilla Cupcake Day, share some cupcakes with your friends and family and watch an episode of the Food Network reality-based competition show, Cupcake Wars. Enjoy one of the following vanilla cupcake recipes.

    Classic Vanilla Cupcakes
    Raspberry Filled Vanilla Cupcakes
    Sour Cream Cupcakes


    answered by Dorothy Barry G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
    While good... if you add chocolate to the batter it is even better!
    ALL are yummy !
    With chocolate fudge frosting, even better.  Wait, when is National Chocolate Cupcake Day?
    Last month- Thursday
    October 18

    National Chocolate Cupcake Day 2018 in United States of America


    We chocoholics are terrible aren't we Dorothy?!? Sorry if we hijacked the post... but we do love your Day Is tributes!

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