DNA Confirmation with person not on WikiTree

Question

I have been able to confirm DNA links to MCRA using matching tools on other sites (FTDNA, GEDmatch, etc.)  However, the individual that has added DNA information to other sites are not WikiTree members.  Can the DNA matching data from other sites still be used to confirm DNA on WikiTree if one user is not a WikiTree member?  Example, my father, and I both have added information in GEDmatch.  We both match DNA with a half 3rd cousin from my Father's line in Sweden and have found the MCRA is my 2nd Great Grandfather.  Is this enough to document the DNA line up to our MCRA?  If so, how would you document the non-WikiTree member in the confirmation statement?

Comments

I added a couple tags so more people see your question.  

Answer 1

I do not beleive that you can "Confirm" a DNA match if one of the matches is NOT a wikitree member.

However if you invite them to join, then they can enter their own DNA test details, as you will not be able to enter their details.

You can mention the second cousin in your bio, as proving the MRCA, but without them joining wikitree, there can be no "official" confirmation.

Answer 2

Jody, according to the help page for DNA confirmation, at least one of the test takers must enter their DNA information on their profile.  You can find examples on how to add the DNA  confirmation here https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:DNA_Confirmation. 

 If the cousin is not on WikiTree you can complete the line to their (non-living) parents or grandparents by entering a profile for them in Wiki and say 'between (you) and her 3rd cousin a child of [[Smith-1234|Joe Smith]].'  

I did one for a match myself and it was acceptable Here is the way I wrote it up

"Maternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Karen Raichle GEDmatch T040396 and her 3rd cousin. Their MRCAs are their 2nd great grandparents Robert Ray and Milly Barnett. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 3.9, based on sharing 66.0 cM across 5 segments"   By doing this I was able to confirm up to and including the MRCA couple.

The only problem I see in your case is that the relationship between you and your match must be 3rd cousin or closer, otherwise it needs triangulation. I could be wrong about that because I'm not sure about the half third cousin part.

Comments

Should we be concerned that a few people will select Confirmed with DNA who have improperly used their DNA results to arrive at their conclusion?  Is it okay for that to happen without independent verification?

Should we be concerned that a few people have created erroneous ancestral trees and now some can make up erroneous DNA matches to support those erroneous trees? Is it okay for that to happen without independent verification?

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Peter,

Yes,

No,

Yes,

No

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Peter, You raise some interesting questions.  I actually agree with John's answers. However, I simply directed Jody to what I believe is the current version of the DNA confirmation help page.

I know the page was reworked and the requirements changed recently. Did I misinterpret what the requirements are as stated on that page now?

Based on your experience and connection with the DNA project members, I am sure you must have raised these concerns with them prior to the changes being made to the process. I'm curious as to what their reasoning might have been as to why the process was changed.

Answer 3

Seems to me that the Help Page for DNA Confirmation is pretty clear:

"It's also recommended that at least one of the test takers enter their DNA test on WikiTree, and set their profile's privacy level as Private with a Public Family Tree or higher."

Where I come from, "recommended" means one thing, and "required" means another.  

So, NO, the test takers do NOT both need to be WikiTree members, although that would certainly be great! In fact, what this says is that it's literally still OK if NEITHER are WikiTree members.

Your REAL problem is that NO, a half-3rd cousin does NOT qualify as a "third cousin or closer" required to avoid the need for triangulation.

But you're IN LUCK!! While this person is YOUR half-3C, they are a half-2nd cousin, once removed, to your DAD! Since half-2C1Rs share the same amount of DNA, on average, as a 3C, I'd say you can use your DAD's test to perform that confirmation! Half-2C1R is "third cousin or closer", in my humble opinion (I haven't heard of any formal rules on this).

Like I said, NEITHER test taker has to be a WikiTree member, so you don't even have to talk your dad into a free practically-anonymous membership to do this.

As far as how to "document the non-member(s) in the confirmation statement", the instructions are kind of self-contradictory, so you just need to apply the spirit of what they're trying to get at. One the one hand, you need to say who they are; on the other hand you can't say who they are if they're living (which they almost always are right now)! So they say you can just use their initials.

I'm hoping to get doing my confirmations in this month, myself! I'm also trying to pick a triangulation I can attempt - I'll probably have to beg some people to get on GEDmatch for that. There's a tricky move I figured out to get six of my gt-gt-gt grandparents confirmed without triangulating, plus I can do 14 out of 16 of my gt-gt grandparents the normal way, (given my revelations here). For my last two gt-gt grandparents, there ARE no 3rd cousins, for the one - and there are very few (if any) 4th cousins, and none are known to have tested - and for the other it looks like there are NO 4th cousins at all!

Good luck!!