Carrs of Rhode Island. Caleb and Robert: Father Benjamin? Leaving no stone unturned

+8 votes
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The very earliest Carr book (1874) claimed Parents for Robert and Caleb Carr immigrants to Rhode Island. They were Benjamin and Martha (Hardington) Carr. Subsequent texts have eliminated Benjamin but have maintained the birth dates for Robert & Caleb. Anderson mentions no parents, no known origins and uses the birth estimates from their passage to New England.

I'm trying to verify if any of the positive dates listed below (allegedly from Susan's bible) could possibly be correct. I've searched for Benjamin and Caleb and Robert at Ancestry, FamilySearch, Freereg.org.uk and AmericanAncetors. Are there other places that could be searched? Can verifying records be found? Otherwise Benjamin and wife will have to be disconnected.

Summary: Edson Carr, Carr Family Records begins with (p. 9) https://archive.org/details/carrfamilyrecord00carr

Edson Carr, Carr Family Records begins with (p. 9) Four brothers...
 1. Benjamin b. London 18 Aug 1592; m. Martha Hadington, London 2 Sep 1613. died in London

  1.  Robert Carr b. 4 Oct 1614
  2.  Caleb Carr b. 9 Dec 1616; b c 1624 age 11 at sailing [Hotten]; d. 1695; m. (1) Mercy; (2) Sareth Pener; brother of Robert Carr of Newport
  3.  Richard Carr b. 5 Jan 1621
  4.   Andrew Carr b. 5 Dec 1622

2. William b. London 17 Jun 1597; m. Susan Rothchild Lon 16 May 1619; to Plymouth 1621 "Fortune; walked to Bristol; died 4 Jun 1672. Child: George b. 12 Mar 1620
3. George; Went to America in 1620 on the Mayflower
4. James;  ran away to sea.

Claims to be from family Bible printed London 1585 belonging to Susan, wife of George (1) "My maiden name was Susan Rothchild. I was born in Devonshire, Eng., in the year of our Lord, A.D. 1598, April 30. I married William Carr, of London, May 16, 1619. He was born in 1597, June 17. Husband says he had a brother George Carr, who went to America in 1620. My husband has a brother Benjamin Carr, he was born Aug. 18, 1592. I am acquainted with him and his family. He has four sons, Robert Carr, born Oct 4, 1614; Caleb Carr, born Dec. 9, 1916; Richard Carr, born Jan. 5, 1621; Andrew Carr, born Dec. 5, 1622. My son George Carr was born March 12, 1620. My husband had a brother James Carr. He ran away to sea when a boy and we never heard from him."
Thank you.
WikiTree profile: Benjamin Carr
in Genealogy Help by Anne B G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
My opinion, it's a hoax. Read carefully. The excerpt mentions "who went to America in 1620" This is supposedly taken from her diary, America was known as the colonies at that time. A map made in 1507 by Martin Waldseemuller showed America, named after Amerigo Vespucci. The gentleman that proposed the lands found by Columbus were a seperate continent. In the 1600's the term America was used by Europeans to denote the indian natives on the continent. The earliest use of America applying to the added European settlers was in 1568, in a french book written by Andre Thevet. In 1703 a British Cartographer, John Senex produced a map called "British North America". After the 1770's our term America became widely used, as the declaration of Independence used the term. Most probably the term started use in the early 1700's as our independence was a long time coming. It boiled over in the 1740,50,60's with pronounced taxes. And as we all know in 1776-83 we liberated ourselves through war. I would bet, although not an expert in coloquial colonial language, the term America was not yet in wide use in her time. Many British documents at the time reffered to the area as the Colonies or British Colonies. (But England did own a huge chunck of the world, with colonies everywhere.) Additionally, there are no dates substanciating when the diary was written. Although, if publishing dates are correct, it could be a possibility. I would have to see more of the "Bible" and it's entries. My thoughts were it may have been rewritten. Family Bibles tend to get well used.  The bible printed in 1585, she being born 1595. There are no dates substantiating when she wrote this. A family book already at least 20 or 30 years old when she accepts ownership. Then we have the coloquial use of words at the time. Her language syntax is wrong. Writing more 19th or 20 cemtury. The puncuation was better than the average person of the time. One other gentleman did raise this question as well.  The the most damming in my opinion, is the use of the word America. I  would have to see more of the "Bible" and it's entries.  However, there are quite a few factors leaning to hoax.

2 Answers

+9 votes

Try The House of Carr

But this book mentions the legendary diary of Susan Rothschild, which is believed to be a hoax.

by J. Salsbery G2G6 Mach 3 (31.7k points)
I agree there seems to be many reasons to think the family bible is a hoax.

For instance if Susan wrote this herself, then she must have had a level of education reserved for the well-off or nobility and even then rarely given to females, yet there is no mention of any Rothchild family in sources such as the Visitation of Devonshire.

In fact the only mention of Rothchild in British History Online are both different spellings of the Rothschild family and the first mention of this family arriving in England is in 1798.

If it was genuine it seems odd that she doesn't mention any details about her own family, who her parents were for instance.

Writing genealogical details in a family bible is more of a Victorian thing, and I'm not sure whether in this era it might not have been seen as sacreligious to write in a bible?
J. Salsbery, can you share links to where the Susan bible is discussed as a hoax?

I would like to believe the diary is real, but I have my doubts.

If you google "Carr family susan rothchild diary hoax" you will find some discussion. Some of it is on Ancestry boards.

I wish I could copy and paste here. The comment 5 December 2017 by Patricia R. Reed, mentions what Robert Charles Anderson said about it, but I have not verified this.

https://vitabrevis.americanancestors.org/2017/12/published-in-a-book/

The Vitabrevis article https://vitabrevis.americanancestors.org/2017/12/published-in-a-book/

cites Anderson's Great Migration sketch on Caleb Carr (GM2:2:16).

So I looked it up on American Ancestors, and Anderson says:

"BIBLIOGRAPHIC NOTE: In 1894 Edson I. Carr published The Carr Family Records: Emb[r]acing the Record of the First Families who Settled in America and Their Descendants, with Many Branches Who Came to This Country at a Later Date {cited above as Carr Fam]. The highly amusing account of the migration of the Carr family to New England is one of the more outlandish of its genre, and was probably concocted sometime in the nineteenth century"

Link, paywalled: https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/great-migration-immigrants-to-new-england-1634-1635-volume-ii-c-f/image?rId=235156137&volumeId=7373&pageName=16&filterQuery=
+3 votes
Here is the link to Anderson's profile of Caleb Carr in his Great Migration series. American Ancestors, requires subscription, sorry.   Anderson thinks a 1575 Bible is real, but the 1894 Carr Family Records publication is fake (see page 16 of below link, Bibliographic Note.)

https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/great-migration-immigrants-to-new-england-1634-1635-volume-ii-c-f/image?volumeId=7373&pageName=11&rId=22175018
by Patricia Hawkins G2G6 Mach 3 (34.6k points)

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