Can we prove or disprove Joseph Razey son of Malcolm MacLeod of Brae?

+4 votes
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The parentage of Joseph Razey (Razee, Rasey, Racy) 1728-1790 (NH) has been the subject of vigorous debate for decades. Complicating matters were two Joseph Razey’s of Massachusetts, believed to be unrelated, one who went to Rhode Island and the other to New Hampshire (who may have originated in NH). DNA testing has definitively debunked the long-held theory either was the son of Malcom MacLeod of Raasay Scotland.

As early as 1920s-30s, long before DNA testing, Prof Wm Gurney (Univ of Chicago and President of the Sons of the American Revolution Illinois Assoc) suggested a different theory that Joseph of NH was the son of Malcolm MacLeod of Brae and Katheryn McQueen. This line of investigation has been further developed by David Guy Harden. One particular website owner (angrily in red font) denounces the entire concept and claims MacLeod of Brae never came to the New World but Gurney and Harden believe there is written documentary proof to the contrary. Harden also addresses the DNA questions.

I would welcome some opinions on the work of Gurney and Harden. The basic underpinnings of this are on Joseph’s profile (more detail available via email on request). What testing would be necessary to prove/disprove the MacLeod of Brae/Joseph Razey connection via DNA.

Neither Malcolm MacLeod of Brae nor Katheryn appear to be in WikiTree at present.

Edit: Directing the attention of the Scotland teams to the latest comments appended to the answer by Gordon Macleod. 5 Sep 2022.

WikiTree profile: Joseph Razey
in Genealogy Help by T Stanton G2G6 Pilot (370k points)
edited by T Stanton

2 Answers

+2 votes
 
Best answer
Anything back more than 4 generations will require a Y test for males or a MtDNA test for females.  These tests only follow a single line back.  So you would only get direct Razey ancestors from the Razey line.  If MacLeod is a step father you will not get him.  If he is an uncle by marriage you will not get him.  If he is a grandfather by marriage to a Razey woman you will not get him.   The MtDNA works the same way from child to mother to grandmother etc for one specific line.  

If you have several people who relate via Autosomal DNA (which goes back accurately about 4 generations) you can sometimes deduce a relationship but it is calculated relationship.  

DNA can more easily disprove a relationship than it can at times prove one as sometimes you get it down to one of several sons...  

And it is dependent on who has tested.  If the right people have not tested you will also get nothing.

I would work out both paper trails and see who among the descendants have taken DNA tests and see what kind of matches you are or are not getting. Then decide who needs to test.
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (833k points)
selected by Susan Laursen
+2 votes
You’ll need to further specify the written documentary evidence that proves or even suggests that Malcolm Macleod went to America. There is no mention of it in Samuel Johnson’s book that I can find.
by Gordon Macleod G2G Crew (330 points)
Please see the profile. I believe I have a PDF of Harden’s work based on Gurney if you are interested.
Thanks for your reply. I’d be very interested in that PDF thanks. Though I’m really just interested in the specific reference, for e.g. the page number of Johnson’s book where it is stated that Malcolm Macleod had recently returned from America in 1773, I’ve read the book and can find no such reference.

Gordon, I don't know if you are still getting WikiTree feeds. I did not respond to this in late 2020 as I was doing some additional investigation and then got sidetracked. You are correct that nowhere in MacLean's Account does he state Malcolm Macleod came to the colonies nor does anything infer that he did. This was an error on the part of the researcher who wrote and compiled the paper.

This statement is found in the research. "...Malcomb Macleod Rasay who was born in 1711. He was sixty-two years old when he was secured as a guide and interpreter for Boswell when he made his tour of the Hebrides Islands in company of Samuel Johnson. Malcolm MacLeod was an all-around man, stout and well built, a good sailor, guide, trader and could speak Erse and English fluently. He was a valuable asset to Boswell and Johnson as they sailed forth in 1773."

Edit: wrong item pasted into the comment box. This is the continuation which may be complete fiction:

Flora MacDonald, the Lady who got Malcolm out of prison, was living in Kingsburgh during Boswell and Johnson’s tour. “Here she was visited, in 1773, by the celebrated Samuel Johnson. Her husband, oppressed by debts, was caught in that great wave of emigration from the Highlands to America. In the month of August, 1774, leaving her two youngest children with friends at home, Flora, her husband and older children, sailed in the ship Baliol, from Campbelton, Kintyre, for North Carolina” (J. F. MacLean(1900, An Historical Account of the Settlerments of Scotch Highlanders in America, prior to the peace of 1783, together with notices of Highland Regiments and Biographical Sketches, Helman-Taylor Co., Cleveland, John MacKay, Glasgow, 1900, p. 395). Of course, when Mr. Johnson visited Flora he was accompanied by his guide, Malcolm Macleod. Dearest friends, this visit would have been a delight for both Flora and Malcolm. They undoubtedly discussed the future and Malcolm would have told her all he could about America. It is probably no coincidence that Flora and family decided to escape the hardships of Scotland for a better life in America. Malcolm MacLeod returned to America at this same time, and likely travelled with his close friend Flora to North Carolina, where he too was somewhat of a celebrity. “Flora’s fame had preceded her to that distant country, and her departure from Scotland having become known to her countrymen in Carolina, she was anxiously expected and joyfully received on her arrival. Demonstrations on a large scale were made to welcome her to America (ibid).

Continuing the above, the research then reads:

"Now the proof that this Capt. Malcolm Macleod is the one who emigrated to America is found in Dr. Samuel Johnson’s A Journey to the Western Islands of Scotland (1775) where it is mentioned that Captain Malcolm had just returned from a trip to America."

The only mention I find of Malcolm Macleod is found on pg 129 and on pg 132 there is mention of America but it is not in reference to Macleod. None of the other mentions of America appear to have anything to do with the section in which Macleod is mentioned (but the indexing at Archive.org is not good, the word "America" found on pg 129 will not come up with the search tool).

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