There seems to be a gap between project managed profiles and stickered profiles

+5 votes
134 views
There seems to be a gap in project assignment for profiles - you either have a project box and project management, or you don't.  If you don't, what's to say that all of the other profiles that fit into a project, but don't need project management, are part of said project?

If the profile doesn't warrant a project box, then it can have a sticker, but anyone can remove the sticker.  In the end, profiles that lack a project box don't really fall under the project at all.  And if they aren't designated as part of the project, the rules dictating their management are at the whim of each profile manager.

Take for example the Euroaristo project.  If you create a profile for an early 20th century lord or baron, and the rather obscure aristocrat doesn't rate a project box, does this person fall under the Euroaristo project at all?  I would think that any nobles would fall under the project.  But without anything to "mark" the profile, what indicates its inclusion in the project?  You can put a sticker on it but anyone, at any time, can remove the sticker because, well, they just don't like stickers.  Or, what if they don't like the Euroaristo naming conventions?  They want to call their profile De Meers instead of Meers, with current last name "De Meers."  If the profile(s) don't have a sticker or project box, it could be argued that they aren't part of the project and you could name them as you please.

I can see the importance of a project box with project management and PPP status.  And I can see the utility of a sticker.  But it seems that there is a level of recognition for the profile that could fit in between, a project box or sticker that notifies that the profile is part of a project, but not project managed, and the sticker/box should not be removed, and folks are reminded to coordinate with the project before making any major changes to the profile.

I remember seeing one of the project boxes that said something to the effect of, "This profile is managed by a member of said project, please coordinate before making changes."

Anyone else see the utility of having a second class project box and or some other way of annotating profiles?
asked in Policy and Style by SJ Baty G2G6 Pilot (294k points)

3 Answers

+3 votes

It makes absolutely no difference if a profile falls within the scope of a project, but doesn't have a sticker. (And of course would only have a project box if it was managed by a project.)

Think about it.  I currently have about 4,000 ancestors who were all born in England.  But they don't all have the England Sticker on there.  Why should they?  What does stickerdom do for them?  The only thing that is of concern is - am I a member of the England Project?

"Stickers are used for honoring a person or otherwise highlighting something that's deemed to be important about them."

This is from the Help page about Stickers.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Stickers#Style_Rules

answered by Ros Haywood G2G6 Pilot (487k points)
We're in agreement: project box for project managed, sticker for bling.

What for profiles that fit into a project but don't warrant the box?  Are they not part of the project?

They are 'part of the project' in name only. It's not going to make a teeny bit of difference whether they are stickered as 'Member of XXX Project'.  After all, only living people can be Project Members.  Deceased people (such as ancestors) are just 'associated with' or 'fall under the umbrella of' or 'are covered by'.  You can have a profile which is 'a member of the British royalty or aristocracy', but that is just wording (unless of course they are managed by a Project).

To take myself as an example here: my great-great-great grandfather was born in England, married in England, died in England.  He is not a member of the England Project.  I am.  His life is connected to the England Project.  Should he need to become PPP in the future, he would be managed by the England Project.  If his son emigrated to Australia, I would put the 'English Ancestors' sticker on this son's profile, so that Australian genealogists would not waste time looking anywhere else.

+3 votes
SJ, The sticker means that the profile is part of the project but not managed by the project. I have several profiles on my watchlist that have the Notables Sticker because the project does not manage them, I do. The project box is only for those profiles managed by the project. It is important for some projects to manage profiles of those still living because profiles for living individuals are unlisted but for all others it would just be too much work for projects to manage every profile that is part of the project.
answered by Dale Byers G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
Exactly Dale, I agree completely.  There are a lot of notable profiles that don't warrant project management.  So they only have a sticker.  But what if one of your 8th cousins doesn't like stickers and removes it?  What is to designate that the notable profile is a notable?  What is to say that it falls under the purview of the notables project and that certain rules should be followed for it - not sure if notables has any rules, but Euroarist does (LNAB naming conventions).

So what makes a notable a notable if stickerless and not project managed?
The profile manager has the final say about the use of Stickers and categories and all projects have rules you just need to look them up to follow them.

Unfortunately, the profile manager doesn't get a veto if someone else doesn't like stickers.  Any person who follows the profile can remove the sticker and it can't be re-added without coordination with the dissenting cousin/follower. 2.2 Rules on adding and removing

you wrote:

"... all projects have rules you just need to look them up to follow them."

I agree, but If a Newt comes in off the street, and sees a profile and wants to edit it, how does he know the profile fits under the purview of any project and if it does, which project?  What I'm asking is, in which way does Wikitree expect profiles to be marked to say or suggest that they fall under the guidelines of this or that project?  Is it by category?  A note in the bio?

You would put a category on the profile.  Then it would still be linked to the Notables Project.

If your 8th cousin didn't like the category either, that is when you two would collaborate.  Write to him/her and ask why?
That is why you need to actually manage the profiles you have on your watchlist and not just forget about them. I do get a veto to profiles I manage. If anyone makes a change to any profile managed by me I can always change it back. In fact I check the family activity feed every day to make sure others are not making bad changes to the profiles I manage.
This is why good mentoring and the rangers are so important to the health of Wikitree.

Dale, this old thread popped up as a related topic in another thread. Reading it, I see you wrote: " I do get a veto to profiles I manage. "

Where in the help pages does it indicate that profile managers get a veto?

Thanks.

Well, he certainly gets a veto when someone proposes a merge involving one or more of his managed profiles.  He gets to reject the merge.
+1 vote
Frankly I cannot see the point in many profiles being managed by any Project. The example is given of Euroaristo but frankly many people accorded that sticker are or were not members of the British aristocracy. In a great many cases they are members of the Landed Gentry which is something completely different.

I administer more than 3,000 profiles, most of them Scottish. I am also Genealogist of Clan Sutherland and therefore the person who "in the real world" actually determines whether someone is a member of Clan Sutherland or not. I take the view that all people born with the surname Sutherland (or one of the spelling variants) are automatically members of Clan Sutherland as are spouses or partners who take the surname Sutherland. However as almost none of these profiles are administered by the Scottish clans project, there is a simpler sticker which I append to profiles which does not suggest they are project run. For completeness, where someone (usually a woman) is born into one clan and marries/married into another, I accord stickers for both clans.

I consider this to be very important because a great many people are unaware of the origins of the surnames of family members and in Scotland they have a great historical and social importance.
answered by Mark Sutherland-Fisher G2G6 (8k points)

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