Any objection to Aefie (Kinetis) Bradt as LNAB ID, b. 1583 in Norway?

+2 votes
527 views

This Aefie Kinetis-3 is the mother of the New Netherland Settler. Her death as a Settler in 1613 at Ulster or Schenectady is suspect, since the Dutch only first explored around Albany in 1615. So if she was really an early death here, I suppose that fact would be fairly historically significant.

Also known as Eva, she was the daughter of Pieter Kinetis. I am not sure why she would also have the Kinetis name, or why the father would either for that matter, as Norwegians. But the matching profiles are all in agreeement on these names, so there is no current conflict.

So if there is no objection or only minimal response, I would like to move this to NNS in one week, on April 15, 2014 and then complete the merge.

But this G2G should stay open and linked to the profile for any further discussion of the appropriateness, origin and significance of the Kinetis name, or a proper Norwegian patronymic for either Aefie or her father, etc.

WikiTree profile: Aefje Bradt
in Genealogy Help by Steven Mix G2G6 Mach 4 (41.3k points)

2 Answers

+1 vote

I looked into the sources cited in this profile. Some of the profile information is implausible. I found errors in several of the URLs that allegedly pointed to sources (that is, the URLs are dead ends or they pointed to documents unrelated to this woman and her husband). I haven't deleted any URLs, but I did replace one with a correct URL and I have augmented other sourcing information in the profile.

In sources that I successfully accessed, I found that her husband's brother is recorded as having immigrated to New Netherland in 1630. She presumably accompanied him might also have gone to New Netherland at the same time if she was still alive. It appears to me that the death date of 1613 may be a typographical error, as  Robert Gordon Clarke gives a death date of 1631, in Rensselaerwyck (which I think is a credible location for a New Netherland settler in 1631, unlike the location of "Schenectady" that still appears on her profile).

Added: It appears that the unusual name "Kinetis" may have become attached to this woman due to a myth (which has been debunked) that Aeffie was half French, half Mohawk, and was named Kinetis or Kenutje. This myth is reported to have been debunked by Cynthia Brott Biasca in an article entitled "Jaques Hertel and the Indian Princess", in the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, Vol. 128, No. 2, pp. 91-97. This page purports to be a transcript of the article. (Does anyone have access to the original?) In any event, "Kinetis" does not appear to be her actual LNAB.

by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
edited by Ellen Smith
I descend from this line of Bratts, or Bradts as some say. Here's what bugs me about what Mrs. Biasca did: The fact that early Mohawk bloodlines HAVE BEEN FOUND IN THE BRATT FAMILY is conveniently ignored. The historical records are deemed mistaken and unreliable. Oh, they were written later so how could they be accurate? If we use that line of reasoning Troy would have never been discovered. Another thing. No one knows who Arent Bratt's mother is (except those of us who believe in history and science) and we find that THERE IS NO KINETIS IN NORWAY THAT ISN"T MADE UP. His mother was Mohawk. No doubt. And that would explain the marriage between Kenutje in his younger years before he married De Vos. Then is tall AMAZINGLY adds up with the historical narratives, in my opinion. This is not the typical, fake "Indian Princess" story. It's real history and the Biasca article really needs to be seen for what it is: An inaccurate paper that rules out valid genetics and history.
0 votes
The Cynthia Brott Biasca article debunking the Eva Kinetis myth is real.  I personally transcribed it and posted it to the internet back in the 90's.  I subsequently stopped hosting the page, but I believe others have since put it on the web.  This myth seems to have gained a foothold in part because there is indeed Mohawk blood in one early branch of the Bradt family, apparently making this mythology about Eva Kinetis more convincing to some.  None of the dates are remotely possible.  Additionally, the man she must have married is not even know to have existed, let alone travelled to the new world, let alone travelled to the new world prior any previously known attempt at colonization.  Andries, father of Albert and Arent is presumed to have that name because they were both known as Andriessen, before eventually taking the surname Bradt more than two decades after coming to America.  It is pure assumption from the use of patronyms that their father was Andries, but we wouldn't have a surname for him either, apart from yet another assumption regarding the naming of his first son Albert.  Thus we have a mythical Kinetis married to a presumed Arent Albertsson.  None of which is backed up by a single document.
by
Since i first came across the surname Kinetis for the mother of my ancestor Albert Andriessen Bradt, i was very sceptical. It certainly was not Dutch, nor did it sound Norwegian. Since it has been debunked, why not just scrap her profile altogether? or rename the profile ''Aefie / Aefje / Aafje, wife of Andries (or Anders)'", maiden name unknown ? That would at least be historically plausible, since the parents of Albert Andriessen and Arent Andriessen (both later surnamed Bradt) most likely did bear those christian names. One could perhaps keep the married surname Bradt for Eva/Aefie, and the surname Bradt for Andries, with a note at each profile that this usage is anachronistic, in the sense of being ''ahead of its time'', the surname having been adopted by their two sons only in America. Any dates and places for Andries and Eva/Aefie should be scrapped, until historical research finds authentic data for them. As for Albert Andriessen, the baptism for his son Barent at the Lutheran Church in Amsterdam on 22 Oct 1634 truly does exist. There is a record of it at the Archives of Baptisms, Marriages and Deaths in Amsterdam, and an extract of it at this on-line site of the above Archives: https://stadsarchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/archiefbank/indexen/doopregisters/zoek/query.nl.pl?i1=1&v1=Albert&a1=Andries&r1=45&x=19&z=a#  

The child's name is Barent (my direct forefather), his father's name is given as ALBERT ANDRIESSEN. His religion is shown as LUTHERAN. The Lutheran Church in Amsterdam was finished being built in 1633, the year before Barent Albertsen Bradt's baptism. As both the above site of the Amsterdam Archives, as well as the site of the Lutheran Church of Amsterdam itself state, the Church was founded by and frequented by Scandinavian and German Lutherans, mostly merchants and their families who had settled in Amsterdam. There were Norwegian mercants living in Amsterdam, who had decided to leave the harsh rule of the Danish King in their land. Almost no native Dutchmen were Lutherans. Most Dutchmen at that time were either still Catholic, or had joined the Dutch Reformed Church, which in the 17th century was the  established Church in Amsterdam. In 1725 one third of the people of Amsterdam belonged to the Reformed Church, one third were still Catholic, and one third were Jewish, Lutheran, Remonstrant, or other. But the Lutherans were in the great majority Scandinavian and German immigrants. This fact, and the fact that Albert Andriessen was called "De Noorman" (the Norwegian) would seem to substantiate the claim that he had either lived in Norway or was himself Norwegian. With so many ancestors to research, it is impossible to spend much time on any one forefather. But the present discussion on ''Aefie Pieterse Kinetis'' (fictitous surname) and ''Andries Arentsen Bradt'' (anachronistic surname) inspire me to seek more information on them. Regards, Albertus
This old old discussion I am bringing back up in search of an alternate link to the birth record of Barent Andriessen 22 Oct 1634 at the Oud Lutherse Kerk (Old Lutheran Church) Amsterdam, Netherlands - looked and looked can not find
Real? That article was the worst hack job on genealogy ever produced! The author took valid genealogies and history and ripped them to shreds, leaving lots of Metis people scratching their heads at so much unsourced ********.
I did not see why everyone seemed to think her article was the bees knees myself - It is either one or the other - now there are still two schools of thought on this - to me her article is not gospel

Related questions

+4 votes
2 answers
+3 votes
2 answers
+7 votes
2 answers
0 votes
0 answers
42 views asked Jan 29, 2019 in The Tree House by K Raymoure G2G6 Mach 1 (17.4k points)
+3 votes
1 answer
+6 votes
4 answers
+1 vote
2 answers
125 views asked Nov 8, 2018 in Genealogy Help by Navarro Mariott G2G6 Pilot (145k points)
+4 votes
3 answers

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...