Who were the parents of John Baggett of Virginia.

+2 votes
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Written up the bio for notable, Hervey 1st Baronet Bagot. The six children (HOP) are accounted for. Five sons and a daughter are named. The daughter and three sons reached maturity but only the daughter and two sons outlived their father. Of the six children I've found baptismal records for the four who grew up, but none for Walter and John who are said to have died young. Perhaps that suggests they died very shortly after birth and were privately baptised. The second son, Edward, succeeded his father, the third, Hervey, lived to have a child, the fourth died after the Battle of Naseby. However another son John has come in from a merge. Allegedly born in London with a date making him probably the eldest son. The source is a Bagot family website and offers no sources though Wikipedia names a son, John, who went to Virginia, again unsourced. Should this John be detached until supporting evidence is found? (My preference) Or what? Alerted the PM.
WikiTree profile: John Baggett
asked in Genealogy Help by C. Mackinnon G2G6 Pilot (128k points)

3 Answers

+2 votes
 
Best answer

I've:

  1. disconnected the profile, and added what is known about the actual/most probable parents
  2.  notified both FindAGrave contributors that links and mention of Sir Hervey should be removed (I noticed that they use a different birth date that is after the christening date, so I'm not sure what that's all about); and, I see that FamilySearch has indexed both of the profiles
  3.  re-written the sub-bio on Wikipedia for Hervey Bagot. Seems a fairly uncommon name, so I think we might be able to find where in the line the John Baggett branch fits. 
  4.  alerted the managers of a Geni profile that has the incorrect parentage listed
answered by Fann Fann G2G6 Mach 2 (24.8k points)
selected by C. Mackinnon
Got to admire all that effort. Hope it does some good.

I determined from a footnote* in a source from the WikiTree profile for John, son of Sir Hervey, that the birth date that is also shown on the FindAGrave profile is Sir Hervey's son, John. I went ahead and made a new John using appropriate sources to correctly reflect both instances of John - the infant, and John the husband of Ms. Matthew, on FamilySearch. 

No response yet from the profile managers at Geni and FindAGrave.

The hunt on the trail for William and Sarah Bagott, parents of John, continues.

*The Heraldic Visitations of Staffordshire made by Richard St George 1635 Page 27: From the footnotes: "John Bagot. Born 29 March 1613. Ob. inf. Filius et hares, atat. dim. anni 1614."

+2 votes

Findmypast has a John baptised 1613, to other parents

First name(s) John
Last name Bagott
Year Of Birth 1613
Birth date ? ? 1613
Baptism year 1613
Baptism date 20 Feb 1613
Abode -
Place Wisbech, St Peter
Mother's Given Name Sarah
Father's First Name William
Father occupation -
Notes
County Cambridgeshire
Record set Cambridgeshire Baptisms
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain
answered by Marion Poole G2G6 Pilot (237k points)
Does this match actually link to a source? Granted, it is possible that John belonged to another branch, but that too would need vetted.

This candidate William (generationally, being the brother of John's father), has a different spouse, but no children listed and as the source says: no issue. Perhaps the 2nd marriage and issue was unrecorded in the work?

Note also that the John recorded in that same source indicates that Hervey's John was one of the children who died young (FindAGrave post for the John in question has a note from a contributor saying that he died as an infant).

So we have mounting evidence suggesting that this John is assigned to the wrong parents. If the FindMyPast link could tell us more... then we'd know where to put him, but it seems clear that this John is the wrong one to be attached, based upon the mounting evidence. 

Notwithstanding the above notes, it is curious that John's grandfather Walter "had issue four sons and four daughters, viz. Lewis, Hervey, Richard, and William; (p) Anne, Frances, Lettice, and Mary...

Note (p): "The pedigree mentions another son, John, who died an infant." (page 528)

So it may be possible that people have misinterpreted which son John died an infant.

Therefore, William, son of Walter and brother of Sir Hervey, may have been the father of our John in question and actually had the issue that is shown on his record, but was the son of an undocumented (marriage) of William and Sarah unknown.

Thanks Fann, have added the source to the profile,in Research Notes, for PM to use or not
+2 votes

In digging around the FindAGrave linkages, on John Baggett (120714569)'s profile some people seem rather terse in wishing to deny that John existed/was a son of Sir Hervey. The History of Parliament entry is vague on naming who the two surviving sons from Sir Hervey's first marriage were.

I just wrote a note to the FindAGrave curator to sum up what we "know" to a certainty. Sadly, we having nothing to rule in or out John as the other surviving son, or do we?

"John Bagot, who married Martha Mathews, is described on Wikipedia in the entry for Sir Hervey Bagot, 1st Baronet, MP for Staffordshire: Bagot died at Field Hall and was buried at Blithfield; his title was inherited by his eldest surviving son Edward. His other son, John Bagot, married Martha Mathews, went to the Thirteen Colonies, the family name was changed Baggett and he started the American branch of the Bagot/Baggett family. He lived in either Surrey Co. or Isle of Wight Co., Virginia.

More on his marriages from Wikipedia: He married twice; firstly Katherine Aldersley, daughter of Humphrey Aldersley and secondly Ann Fisher, daughter of Sir Clement Fisher. By his first wife he had 6 children, including his successor Edward.

The summary of his father's life from The History of Parliament indicates the following about Sir Hervey's two marriages, the latter being childless:
M. (1) c.1612, Katherine (bur. 13 Feb. 1623) da. of Humphrey Adderley of Weddington, Warws., 5s. (3 d.v.p.) 1da.; - d.v.p. being the Latin abbreviation for decessit vitae patre/died in the lifetime of his father: so two of the sons from marriage One outlived Sir Hervey.
M. (2) aft. 3 Feb. 1625, Anne (d. 9 May 1656), da. of Sir Clement Fisher of Packington, Warws., wid. of Sir Thomas Dilke (d.1613) of Maxstoke, Warws., s.p. - Latin abbreviation for sine prole: without issue.

I have been working on this line a bit, and I might be able to scare up a Hint with a meaningful and contributory source for him. If you could give me some time before disconnecting John, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

answered by Fann Fann G2G6 Mach 2 (24.8k points)
What we really need, of course, is something from Virginia that tells us who people thought his father was! I do not see the harm in disconnecting him from his supposed parents and marshalling the evidence for his parentage on his profile until it becomes clear. In the meantime it would allow his supposed parents to have biographies that follow the evidence. Find a grave is a poor source for parentage as is an unsourced comment on Wikipedia.

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