Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one? (Round 2)

Question

This is round two of an old G2G question.  Round one is here.  The idea here is to find new gateway ancestors.  If your ancestor already appears on the list below there is no need post the line.

Below is a list of 17th century new world immigrants with a recognized descent from Edward III, king of England. The list was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson, author of the Royal Ancestry series.  Links to all of them can be found on this page.

This list currently is 70 individuals representing 55 different families. Of the 70 individuals, 32 settled in the Southern Colonies, 27 in the New England Colonies, and 11 were part of the Quaker migration to the Middle Colonies.

Use the Relationship Finder to find if you have a connection to Edward III, king of England (Plantagenet-70). Does your gateway ancestor appear below?  If not, we will work to prove or disprove your connection.

Do you have a gateway ancestor from a population group other than American colonial immigrants (e.g. Australian, South African, European, etc.)? Post them here or in a separate G2G post and we will create new categories and new lists to track them. The line must be very well documented.

The List of 17th Century New World Immigrants

Barbara Aubrey, John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, St. Leger Codd, Elizabeth & Thomas Coytemore, William Crymes, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Agnes Mackworth, Oliver Manwaring, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Mary Johanna Somerset, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

Comments

Joe, I was able to break the line myself, BUT, how to keep it that way? There’s already a ===Disputed Origins=== section there for him.

- Nancy

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Thanks Nancy. I will have the Southern Colonies project add project protection to the profile.

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Margaret Toshach is being accepted as one of the very additions to the ancestors of Ed. III list.

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I am a Lowe and was wondering if we are related. Edward 111 is my 19th great grandfather.

Nancy Lowe Sitlar

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Appears we are 6th cousins 1x removed.

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THAT IS AWESOME. HELLO COUSIN!!

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can someone check mine Craven-3277. it shows Edward III is my 20th gif but it won’t let me post it here because it’s too long.

Thanks!

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Sheryl, I posted your line in round 3 of this question. 

Your line runs through Jane Deighton, one of the relatively few immigrants with a proven ancestry to Edward III.

The line is good, at least starting from Jane on.  I will leave it to you confirm the rest of the American ancestry.

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Thank you so much Joe! This was fun and interesting and I truly appreciate all you have done. It wasn’t easy answering all these requests. We kept you really busy and you went above and beyond! You are awesome!

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16th great grandson

1. William is the son of Reynolds Palmer (abt.1790-1856) [confident]
2. Reynolds is the son of Elizabeth (Edwards) Palmer (1769-1846) [confident]
3. Elizabeth is the daughter of Cadwallader Edwards (abt.1740-abt.1796) [unknown confidence]
4. Cadwallader is the son of Anne Bunbury (abt.1720-bef.1751) [unknown confidence]
5. Anne is the daughter of Henry Bunbury (abt.1670-) [unknown confidence]
6. Henry is the son of Thomas Bunbury (abt.1636-1682) [unknown confidence]
7. Thomas is the son of John Bunbury (-abt.1644) [unknown confidence]
8. John is the son of Henry Bunbury (abt.1566-1634) [unknown confidence]
9. Henry is the son of Bridget (Aston) Bunbury (abt.1548-1626) [unknown confidence]
10. Bridget is the daughter of Margaret (Ireland) Aston (1528-bef.1594) [confident]
11. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Ireland (abt.1503-1545) [confident]
12. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Stanley) Ireland (abt.1480-1518) [unknown confidence]
13. Margaret is the daughter of James Stanley (1458-1515) [unknown confidence]
14. James is the son of Eleanor (Neville) Stanley (1438-bef.1472) [unknown confidence]
15. Eleanor is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460) [unknown confidence]
16. Richard is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
17. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
18. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]
This makes Edward the 16th great grandfather of William.

This is for an Australian gateway ancestor,  William is 

William George Palmer (1824-1897) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

I am however not very confident in this line

Answer 1

Needs to be checked.

8. William is the son of Archibald Woods Sr. 
9. Archibald is the son of Michael Marion Woods Sr 
10. Michael is the son of John Andrew Woods [uncertain] 
11. John is the son of Isabella (Bruce) Woods 
12. Isabella is the daughter of Patrick Bruce 
13. Patrick is the son of William Bruce 
14. William is the son of Janet (Livingston) Bruce
15. Janet is the daughter of Agnes (Douglas) Livingston 
16. Agnes is the daughter of John Douglas 
17. John is the son of Joan Stewart
18. Joan is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart 
19. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG 
20. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 

Comments

Both The Family Records of the Bruces and the Cumyns, p. 384, by Mary Elizabeth Cumming Bruce, and The Bruces of Airth and their cadets, p. 105 by William Bruce Armstrong state that Patrick Bruce of Newtoune (line 13) had 3 sons, no daughters are mentioned.

Admittedly, the book by Armstrong does seem to rely on the Cumming-Bruce book and possibly not all daughters in the family are mentioned and one of the sons Michael, was a minister of Killinchy, County Down, so there is an Irish connection but I think it puts the parents of line 12 in some doubt.

There aren't any sources currently on Isabella's page that can be seen as reliable.

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Hi Joe,

According to the Relationship Finder, if you run 30 Generations we are 2nd cousins 13 times removed, it seems. It says "uncertain" but from what you posted, it looks as if there is not a whole lot of doubt-- though without DNA of course one can't be sure.

Welcome cousin!
Isabella

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I am 10th Cousins 4 times removed with Archibald.

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See my comment below.

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Hello John,

What is not reliable on my page? My mother's family is an old one with many proud genealogists. What kind of sources would you find reliable?
You and I appear to be 16th  cousins according to the relationship finder. Run the 30 generations version.

I have a file in my computer. Ancestors of Isabella Fiske, showing my descent from Abraham and Nathaniel Venable I have not had time to type in all these sources. How can I add them? Would you like me to send you a cooy?

If I am NOT descended from Edward III- I would like to fix this. But, I believe that I am through the Carrington connection to George Reade.What do I have to do to prove it?
My family on that side is an old plantation family. It was very proud of its Revolutionary descent and they kept records. My husband has an injured leg so right now he can't go dig it out for me, but I intend to get it.

I feel that your way of posting this information was not courteous. You could have sent me a direct message or responded to my own post about my descent-- not posted it as an afterthought on another answer.

I invite you to show that I am not descended from George Reade. I'll send you a file with many sources that show I am at the very least I descend from Patriot Nathaniel Venable.

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On my computer I have a detailed file with many sources which I have not had time to add-- showing my descent from Abraham Venable who is descended from George Reade.

Would you like me to send you a copy?

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You and I are 16th cousins. 

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Atkinson-107&person2_name=Fiske-602

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Isabella Fiske, I wasn't indicating that your genealogy from Edward III wasn't reliable.

It was Isabella (Bruce) Woods, line 12 at the top of this answer that appears not to be reliable sourced.

As far as I know this isn't your genealogy?

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By the way, my niece took a DNA test that connects her directly to the Reades! I can ask her to Make this info Available... or I ll take one myself.

There is no doubt that we are descended from George Reade. And if his line is proven,, then I'm descended from Edward the 3rf ,

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I see!

Very  sorry and I want to apologize.

Did not realize there was another Isabella here, it's not that common a name ... It wasn't that one time. I am really very sorry. I do believe that my family is descended from George Reade and  I know it because my niece took a DNA test.

It is ridiculous how high and mighty we get About ancestry. I was realizing how silly the whole thing was!

 My most sincere apologies. I believe you and I are cousins.

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I'm really embarrassed, sorry sorry sorry.

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yay….Everything ahead of Jane Deighton checked out! Does that mean I can make the following ones as confident?

Thanks….Craven-3277

18. Walter is the son of Katherine (Stradling) Dennis (abt.1412-bef.1437) [uncertain] 
19. Katherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling (abt.1390-1479) [uncertain] 

Answer 2

Virginia line to be checked.

1. John is the son of Mary (Loftus) Cosby [confident] 
2. Mary is the daughter of Adam Loftus [uncertain] 
3. Adam is the son of Alice (Sutton) Loftus [confident] 
4. Alice is the daughter of Cicely (Willoughby) Sutton [confident] 
5. Cecilia is the daughter of Joan (Strangeways) Berkeley [unknown confidence] 
6. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Neville) Mowbray [unknown confidence] 
7. Catherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
8. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
9. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

I haven't checked out the details but there are comments on the profile of Adam Loftus, and his presumed daughter Mary (line 2) suggesting that the connection is debatable.

Answer 3

Needs to be checked.

1. Mary is the daughter of Hannah (Throckmartin) Johnson [unknown confidence] 
2. Hannah is the daughter of Elizabeth (Berkeley) Throckmorton [unknown confidence] 
3. Elizabeth is the daughter of Richard Berkeley [unknown confidence] 
4. Richard is the son of Isabel (Dennis) Porter [unknown confidence] 
5. Isabel is the daughter of William Dennis [unknown confidence] 
6. William is the son of Walter Dennis [confident] 
7. Walter is the son of Katherine (Stradling) Dennis [uncertain] 
8. Katherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [uncertain] 
9. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident] 
10. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

This line will be broken at Solomon Johnson.  His parentage is unknown and it is very easy to show he could not be the son of John Johnson and Hannah Throckmorton.

Answer 4

This line will certainly break at the immigrant ancestor.

11. Hezekiah is the son of John Smith 
12. John is the son of Thomas Smith 
13. Thomas is the son of Anne (Mayneringe) Smythe 
14. Anne is the daughter of Mary (Fitton) Mainwaring 
15. Mary is the daughter of Edward Fitton MP 
16. Edward is the son of Mary (Harbottle) Fitton 
17. Mary is the daughter of Guischard Harbottle 
18. Guiscard is the son of Margaret (Percy) Harbottle 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Ralph Percy 
20. Ralph is the son of Henry Percy 
21. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer 
23. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG 
24. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 

Answer 5

Needs to be checked.

5. James is the son of Jane (Coe) Lamb [confident] 
6. Jane is the daughter of Rachel (Prudden) Coe [unknown confidence] 
7. Rachel is the daughter of Joanna (Lyon) Prudden [unknown confidence] 
8. Joanna is the daughter of Benjamin Lyon Esq. [unknown confidence] 
9. Benjamin is the son of Henry Lyon [unknown confidence] 
10. Henry is the son of Richard Lyon Sr. [unknown confidence] 
11. Richard is the son of William Lyon [unknown confidence] 
12. William is the son of Joan Lyon [unknown confidence] 
13. Joan is the daughter of John Lyon [unknown confidence] 
14. John is the son of Janet (Keith) Lyon [unknown confidence] 
15. Janet is the daughter of Robert Keith [unknown confidence] 
16. Robert is the son of Elizabeth (Gordon) Keith [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Annabella (Stewart) de Savoie [unknown confidence] 
18. Annabella is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [unknown confidence] 
19. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident] 
20. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

I suspect the line breaks at the 11th generation.

Comments

There is a lot of doubt about which, if any, of the children of George Gordon, 2nd Earl of Huntly were with Annabella Stewart.  Though according to The Scots Peerage, vol. 4, p. 530, the contract for the marriage of Elizabeth Gordon to William, Earl Marischal was dated 11 January 1481/82 so it is probably more likely she was born during his marriage to Annabella.

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But yes there is a major problem with Joan Lyon at line 13.  Although John Lyon, 8th Lord Glamis and his wife Elizabeth Abernethy had a daughter Jean, she married three times in the 1580's and can't be the same as Joan Lyon who was born in 1510.

There has been some discussion but the relationship between Joan Lyon and her presumed parents has never been cut.

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John, are you able to break this line with appropriate notes?

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I've added a comment to the profile that I intend to do that to see if the profile managers want to get involved but if not will complete it in a couple of days.

I haven't checked whether the line breaks again after that, but it's possible I don't think lines 10-12 had sources.

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The Lyon of Ruislip line comes from the Lyon Memorial book, which claims to have condensed it from Welles's "American Family Antiquity", which it says got it from an American descendant who commissioned research by a "Mr Philippe of the Rolls Office".  The dates are all guessed and there's no hint of what kind of primary source "Mr Philippe" found, if any.

But the book only says John "married Joan".  Then it's the old story - somebody fills in the married name as the maiden name, and puts it on the internet, and somebody else takes it as the maiden name and finds a Joan Lyon in Ancestral File etc.

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Thank you to everyone looking at this line. I believe there are numerous issues with the Lyon pedigree. There is an internet posting discussing how it is fraudulent.

I purchased a copy of the relatively recently published book on the Lyon Family. It advocates for this pedigree, but provides no meaningful evidence that the Lyon Family of New England is descended from the Scots Lyons. The book is rather inexpensive, so it was worth looking at.

Based on the doubts about the connection to England, I never looked at the earlier generations.

If I could do it, I would give all of you gold stars!

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The usual Scottish connection is through the male line.  WikiTree had that, but snipped it.  Making Joan a Scottish Lyon as well is only an internet extra.  I doubt if that's in the book, unless the book was researched in the worst parts of the swamp.

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Welles version is here (vol 2 p 96)

https://archive.org/stream/americanfamilyan00well#page/n181/

and does actually hint at some sources.  And it doesn't relocate the 8th Lord Glamis to Middlesex.  But it doesn't seem to mention an immigrant.

Answer 6

No 11-13 were all born in England and came to Boston.

11. Mary is the daughter of Francis Norton Jr. [unknown confidence]
12. Francis is the son of Francis Norton [unknown confidence]
13. Francis is the son of Dionisia (Cholmeley) Norton [unknown confidence]
14. Denice is the daughter of John (Cholmeley) Cholmondeley [confident]
15. John is the son of Dionisia (Phillips) Cholmeley [confident]
16. Dionisia is the daughter of Elizabeth (Griffith) Phillips [unknown confidence]
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Jane (Stradling) Griffith [unknown confidence]
18. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq [confident]
19. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling [confident]
20. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [confident]
21. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident]
22. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence]
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]

Comments

The parentage of Francis Norton as being William Norton and Dionysia Cholmeley was rejected as far back as 1880 and again in 1940 when the family was studied in detail.  Without better evidence the line will need to be broken here.

Answer 7

Needs to be checked or refuted; there has already been some discussion on Mary Westcott's profile page and in the previous  thread.  I don't feel qualified to tackle it myself but I'll toss it out there in case someone else wants to check it out.

1. Lisa is the daughter of George Hazard Jr.  

2. George is the son of George Franklin Hazard  
3. George is the son of George Franklin Gray Hazard [confident] 
4. George is the son of Franklin Sweet Hazard [confident] 
5. Frank is the son of George Mumford Hazard [confident] 
6. George is the son of Mumford Hazard [confident] 
7. Mumford is the son of George Simeon Hazard [confident] 
8. George is the son of Simeon Hazard [unknown confidence] 
9. Simeon is the son of Mary (Place) Hazard [unknown confidence] 
10. Mary is the daughter of Mary Sweet [unknown confidence] 
11. Mary is the daughter of James Sweet [unknown confidence] 
12. James is the son of Mary Westcott [uncertain] 
13. Mary is the daughter of Mary (Stukely) Westcott [confident] 
14. Mary is the daughter of Margaret (Ascote) Stukely [confident] 
15. Margaret is the daughter of Mary (Monck) Arscott [confident] 
16. Mary is the daughter of Frances Plantagenet [unknown confidence] 
17. Frances is the daughter of Arthur Plantagenet [unknown confidence] 
18. Arthur is the son of Edward (York) of York [unknown confidence] 
19. Edward IV is the son of Richard (York) of York [unknown confidence] 
20. Richard is the son of Richard (York) of York [confident] 
21. Richard is the son of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG [unknown confidence] 
22. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

This was a hard one I forgot to get back to.  If I remember there were doubts about whether or not Mary Westcott was really a Westcott.  I also believe there were some issues with the first 2-3 generations following her.  Unfortunately, I don't remember all the issues.  I will have to re-research.

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Great, thanks.  I'm still getting up to speed on researching US/Colonial 1700s records so I'm not going to be able to do much past that point myself.

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This one is messy.  Basically, the ancestry of Stukeley Westcott is not accepted.  In fact, there appears to be no evidence that either one of his supposed parents are real people, but are rather an invention from the 1930s.

The dates have been obviously manipulated to make an impossible line work.  Stukely Westcott born about 1592 cannot be the grandson of Margery Monck baptised on 17 January 1579 (according to info her father's profile).

Stukeley Westcott and Mary Stukeley will need to be detached from their  parents, but a lot of updating of profiles needs to happen first.

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Sounds like at the very least Mary Westcott's parents should be marked Uncertain, not Confident.

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Looks like Stukeley and Mary Wescott's parents were disconnected in the past and then reconnected earlier this year.  Since we cannot even prove they existed, and the Ascott line is clearly wrong, the correct action is to disconnect the parents again.

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There's no evidence #14 Mary Stukely was the da. of Rev.Lewis Stucley and Margery Arscott so I disconnected the line there.  Her former mother in particular was named 'Margaret Ascote', Ascote appears to my eye to be a completely different family and Stukley is prob a spelling variation of Stucley, for a different branch before this family was notable. I'm going to fix the Arscott part since I think that's possible.

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Thanks; that makes sense.  And now that that line has been disconnected, I see through the relationship finder that I have another supposed direct Edward III connection; I'll post that as a separate answer so it can be checked.

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You actually had 3 more connections to Edward III which unfortunately did not pan out.

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So I see.  Thanks for checking!  Glad to have it sorted out.  My closest relationship is now 1st cousin 21 times removed (and thus outside the scope of this particular project), but given the track record so far I'm pretty skeptical of that one, too.

Answer 8

I do have several but like everyone else's they need to be checked.

Comments

Post them.  The whole point of this thread is to try and check out questionable lines to confirm or deny.

Answer 9

Edward is my 22nd GGF. The Gateway ancestor would appear to be Solomon John Johnson-14193, who is not on your list. There are 2 "uncertain" profiles in this line.

Comments

This line will be broken at Solomon Johnson.  His parentage is unknown and it is very easy to show he could not be the son of John Johnson and Hannah Throckmorton.

Answer 10

Could we please check Dudley-50 ?

1. Samuel is the son of Thomas Dudley [confident] 
2. Thomas is the son of Roger Dudley [confident] 
3. Roger is the son of Henry Dudley [confident] 
4. Henry is the son of John Sutton [unknown confidence] 
5. John VII is the son of Cicely (Willoughby) Sutton [unknown confidence] 
6. Cecilia is the daughter of Joan (Strangeways) Berkeley [unknown confidence] 
7. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Neville) Mowbray [unknown confidence] 
8. Catherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
9. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
10. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

# 6 Willoughby-189 is noted as Edward III descendant. 

Thank you!

Comments

Richardson doesn't show any lines through the Governor's father Roger Dudley.  Probably because we aren't even sure who he was.

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Having said which, there is this paper (no date evident)

Roger Dudley’s Father Proved to be Captain Henry Dudley

Generally the internet seems to be taking the title on trust and assuming that the matter is in fact proved.

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Thank you for taking the time to find that! Food for thought at the very least. It makes me hopeful. Happy New Year!

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Old book

https://archive.org/details/suttondudleysofe00adla/page/n6

and a long review of it

https://books.google.com/books?id=uy89AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA409

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Thank you for the references. I gave them a quick read and think I am back to square one...the land of muddy waters.  Sigh.

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Douglas Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry, pages 95-98  shows very clearly that Roger Dudley was the father of Gov. Thomas Dudley. He is definitely descended from Richard de Clare, and, possibly, many more Magna Carta Barons. See his profile page , Dudley-129.

Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 2nd Edition shows the marriage of Thomas Dudley to both Katherine Deighton and Dorothy Yorke, so I think you're safe saying you're related to Edward III.

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Wonderful wonderful wonderful! It nice to see what others read and what their thoughts are. It is always lovely when someone else thoughts and findings end up comporting to one's own. So many thank yous for posting this note.

Answer 11

  
6. Dorcas is the daughter of Betty (Humphrey) Thompson [unknown confidence] 
7. Betsey is the daughter of Benjamin Humphrey [unknown confidence] 
8. Benjamin is the son of Ebenezer Humphrey [unknown confidence] 
9. Ebenezer is the son of George Humphrey [unknown confidence] 
10. George is the son of Thomas Humphrey [unknown confidence] 
11. Thomas is the son of Susan (Clinton) Humphrey [unknown confidence] 
12. Susan is the daughter of Thomas Clinton [unknown confidence] 
13. Thomas is the son of Catherine (Hastings) Clinton [unknown confidence] 
14. Catherine is the daughter of Francis Hastings KG [unknown confidence] 
15. Francis is the son of George Hastings KB [confident] 
16. George is the son of Edward Hastings [unknown confidence] 
17. Edward is the son of Katherine (Neville) Hastings [unknown confidence] 
18. Katherine is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG [unknown confidence] 
19. Richard I is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
20. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

The question here is going to be, is Thomas Humphrey the son of Susan Clinton or is he attached to the wrong mother.  Richardson says John Humphrey had two sons by his third wife Susan Clinton, Joseph and Theophilus.  He doesn't mention a son Thomas at all.

Royal Ancestry vol. V page 358.

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It is not accepted that Thomas Humphrey of Hingham, Massachusetts was the son of John Humphrey at all.  The line will need to be broken as soon as I can write up the reasons why the identification is wrong.

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Thank you very much, Joe.  I'm glad to be corrected.

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I marked those parents as uncertain, simply because you intended to write up the reasons why the are not.  Then I decided that was dumb, and I am detaching John and Susan from Thomas.  If you do get around to writing something, it will still help the profile of Thomas, thanks

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he had five sons not just two.

get the facts straight …..

Answer 12

What about this one - Wright-724

1. John is the son of John Wright Gentleman [uncertain]
2. John is the son of Roberdye (Pake) Wright [unknown confidence]
3. Roberdye is the daughter of Joan (Drury) Pake [confident]
4. Joan is the daughter of Elizabeth (Sothill) Drury [unknown confidence]
5. Elizabeth is the daughter of Henry Sothill [confident]
6. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Plumpton) Sothill [unknown confidence]
7. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Clifford) Plumpton [confident]
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Clifford [confident]
9. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident]
10. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident]
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident]
12. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident]
13. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
<!-- it's the last --> This makes Edward III the 11th great grandfather of John.

Comments

This would also then include his brother Thomas (Wright-457)

Edward III is the 11th great grandfather of Thomas

1. Thomas is the son of John Wright Gentleman [unknown confidence]
2. John is the son of Roberdye (Pake) Wright [unknown confidence]
3. Roberdye is the daughter of Joan (Drury) Pake [confident]
4. Joan is the daughter of Elizabeth (Sothill) Drury [unknown confidence]
5. Elizabeth is the daughter of Henry Sothill [confident]
6. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Plumpton) Sothill [unknown confidence]
7. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Clifford) Plumpton [confident]
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Clifford [confident]
9. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident]
10. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident]
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident]
12. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident]
13. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
<!-- it's the last --> This makes Edward III the 11th great grandfather of Thomas.

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I read a lot of this "research" about the Wright family of Essex a while ago and it is very poor quality - there is a lot of incorrect information which is repeated on every genealogy site. 

One branch was seated, starting with John Wright of South Weald, who purchased Kelvedon Hatch in 1538, succeeded by ten John Wrights. South Weald was a manor in the NW part of the parish but was not owned by the Wrights. My guess always has been they were important in the parish because they owned the bridge (and the tolls) in the villiage which probably allowed them to purchase a nearby house "Moat House" or "Brook Hall", which was part of Ropers (aka Brook Street or Mary Green, later was spit into Great and Little Ropers) and the house was used as a hotel at some point. It's implied to me that a Wright purchased the freehold for the house not a lease or tenant, the VCH doesn't really say but perhaps someone can glean something from the statement in John's will - "To Robert Wright and his heirs, Ropers in Brook Street, and house meadow and orchard in Brook Street, Smythes land, Powres wherein now gladden dwelleth with Finers, Burnecks Land and Webbs" In any case, not lords of any manors, and were not members of the "House of Lords" (which is repeated all over the place). His son Robert mentioned above succeeded to the South Weald properties.

Anyways, that's the background for #2 on the list John Wright, grandson of Robert. He's 4 generations removed from our seated Wright.  For some reason this one was born in Kelvedon Hatch and died in Dagenham, which was a manor but not owned by the Wrights. This is where things get really weird - so the bio says he's one of the John Wrights of Kelvedon Hatch but he's not, his info appears to me to have been mixed up with his cousin, the 4th John Wright of Kelvedon Hatch. That one is a recusant Roman Catholic which was a feature of the relatively wealthy senior branch, and was a gentleman.  The rest of the Wrights appear to have been conformist Anglicans and yeoman.

John is the son of Roberdye (Pake) Wright  who is only has these Wright sources, her bio says her mother is Joane Bell, not Joan Drury. I would guess that's one place where this line is disconnected, but there's really no good information about #1-4.

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Kirk,

So I guess what you're telling me is there are problems with #s 1-4 and more research needs to be done.  Is that correct?

ken

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The family sources cloud some of this, but if you look at Joan Drury, her father William doesn't have a child named Joan.

Answer 13

5. John is the son of Mourning (Barksdale) Gilbert [confident] 
6. Mourning is the daughter of Abner Barksdale [confident] 
7. Abner is the son of Joseph Barksdale [confident] 
8. Joseph is the son of Collier Barksdale [confident] 
9. Collier is the son of William Barksdale [confident] 
10. William is the son of William Barksdale [unknown confidence] 
11. William is the son of Dorothy (Wodhull) Barkesdale [unknown confidence] 
12. Dorothy is the daughter of Nicholas Wodhull [unknown confidence] 
13. Nicholas is the son of Fulk Wodhull Esq. [unknown confidence] 
14. Fulk is the son of Elizabeth Parr [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of William Parr [unknown confidence] 
16. William is the son of Elizabeth (Fitzhugh) Parr [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Alice (Neville) FitzHugh [unknown confidence] 
18. Alice is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG [unknown confidence] 
19. Richard I is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
20. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

 

Comments

Line 11 I guess  is my immigrant ancestor.

Woodhull-31

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Need to get the story straight.  Barksdale-34 says he was born in the New World, then it says he emigrated.  It also says he was born 48 years after his parents married.

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Your correct I will research but will also contact both profile managers.

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The Woodhull-Parr line is in Browning

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x002065328;view=1up;seq=16

and here

https://archive.org/stream/visitationsnort00vincgoog#page/n70/

Answer 14

Needs to be checked

12. Robert is the son of Stukely Westcott [confident] 
13. Stukely is the son of Mary (Stukely) Westcott [uncertain] 
14. Mary is the daughter of Margaret (Ascote) Stukely [confident] 
15. Margaret is the daughter of Mary (Monck) Arscott [confident] 
16. Mary is the daughter of Frances Plantagenet [unknown confidence] 
17. Frances is the daughter of Arthur Plantagenet [unknown confidence] 
18. Arthur is the son of Edward (York) of York [unknown confidence] 
19. Edward IV is the son of Richard (York) of York [unknown confidence] 
20. Richard is the son of Richard (York) of York [confident] 
21. Richard is the son of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG [unknown confidence] 
22. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

This one is messy.  Basically, the ancestry of Stukeley Westcott is not accepted.  In fact, there appears to be no evidence that either one of his supposed parents are real people, but are rather an invention from the 1930s.

The dates have been obviously manipulated to make an impossible line work.  Stukely Westcott born about 1592 cannot be the grandson of Margery Monck baptised on 17 January 1579 (according to info her father's profile).

Stukeley Westcott will need to be detached from his parents, but a lot of updating of profiles needs to happen first.

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Thank you for your help, this will take some time as i have to get in contact with Duglas Coldwell (Coldwell-1) who is the manager of both parents and  stuckley is a part of the Puritan Great Migration Project Wikitree.

Answer 15

For Colleen Bake.  Is the immigrants parents proven?

10. Samuel is the son of Philip Thomas 
11. Philip is the son of Evan Thomas Sr. [confident] 
12. Evan is the son of John Phillip Thomas 
13. John is the son of Thomas Ap Griffith 
14. Thomas is the son of Eleanor Johnes 
15. Eleanor is the daughter of Thomas Johnes 
16. Thomas is the son of Elsbeth Vaughan 
17. Elsbeth is the daughter of Elinor (Whitney) Vaughan 
18. Elinor is the daughter of Constance (Tuchet) Whitney 
19. Constance is the daughter of Eleanor (Holand) Touchet 
20. Eleanor is the daughter of Constance (York) le Despencer LG 
21. Constance is the daughter of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG 
22. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 

Comments

Thanks Joe, I do not know which one is the immigrant? Is it Phillip Thomas? (I assume it is since he is from Wales) I have no further sources I could find...I am relatively new to genealogy, one year now.

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Yes, Philip Thomas.

Step one is to confirm he is the son of Evan Thomas.

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Thanks again Joe, will do my best, then I am having trouble confirming that Samuel is the son of John Thomas and Sarah Murray, 20 plus family trees on ancestry.com say so but none have that golden ticket of proof. Edit to say I really have doubts about this line, couple of issues with John Thomas, should be a whole different John married to Martha but I don't want to mess with it anymore.

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According to Papenfuse,

https://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/000426/html/am426--810.html

Philip Thomas immigrated to Maryland from Virginia, where he'd been since 1635.

You could claim headrights for transportation from Virginia, all the way across the Potomac.

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page 27 of the Thomas Book says Philip is the son of Evan

Answer 16

4. Anna is the daughter of Anna May (Adams) Romans [unknown confidence] 
5. Anna is the daughter of Martha Jane (Collins) Adams [unknown confidence] 
6. Martha is the daughter of Levisa (Ratliff) Collins [unknown confidence] 
7. Levisa is the daughter of Anna (Spradlin) Ratliff [unknown confidence] 
8. Anna is the daughter of Rachael (Connelly) Spradlin [unknown confidence] 
9. Rachael is the daughter of Ann (MacGregor) Connelly [unknown confidence] 
10. Ann is the daughter of Archibald MacGregor [confident] 
11. Archibald is the son of James Mohr MacGregor [confident] 
12. James is the son of Robert Roy MacGregor [confident] 
13. Robert is the son of Donald Glas MacGregor [confident] 
14. Donald is the son of Mary (MacDonald) MacGregor [confident] 
15. Mary is the daughter of Miss (Stewart) MacDonald [confident] 
16. Miss is the daughter of Jean (Gordon) Stewart [confident] 
17. Jean is the daughter of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon [confident] 
18. Janet is the daughter of John Stewart [unknown confidence] 
19. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident] 
20. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident] 
21. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
This makes Edward III the 20th great grandfather of Stephanie.

Comments

There seem to be some problems with this at line 17 Jean Gordon.  She married firstly before 28 Feb 1506/07, Colin Campbell, 3rd Earl of Argyll, who died in late 1529, and then supposedly Duncan Stewart of Appin.

But this second marriage isn't mentioned at all in The Complete Peerage (under Argyll) or The Scots Peerage (under Argyll and Huntly).

It is mentioned in The Stewarts of Appin p. 109 though it doesn't specify which Earl of Huntly is her father and there aren't any sources mentioned.

There is also a complication, because on page 111, it states that John Stewart, 5th of Appin, (supposedly her son)  married Katharine Campbell, dau of John Gorm Campbell of Lochnell (who is also her son by her first marriage), so John Stewart of Appin is marrying his niece and I suspect in this time frame that wouldn't be allowed by the church but I could be wrong?

Back on p. 109, there is a comment that Janet Gordon, Lady of Appin was granted some lands in 1558, but I would think that even if she had married again, she would still be referred to as the Countess of Argyll?

Page 109 is also where the unnamed daughter (line 16) of Duncan Stewart is mentioned but it doesn't actually name Janet Gordon as her mother?

I think at the least some of these relationships should be marked as Uncertain, not Confident.

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Very interesting, thank you for pointing out some of these issues. I am not terribly confident myself about this; I must say that I am still a bit confused how this website works. I had a hunch that this wasn't right, but I haven't the slightest idea of how to start working to fix it, including the "confidence" levels. For example, I'm not sure why my recent ancestors would be marked "unknown confidence" and then further down the line it's marked "confident". I don't want to just go around changing profiles of course, so I'm curious about what I can do in regards to fixing my tree where I can without effecting anything. From what you shared, I feel as though I had went down the same roads or very similar ones and had ultimately came to the same conclusion with finding which Earl of Huntly was the one I found that seemed to be "my" ancestor, and abandoned the research. Now that I'm a bit more experienced at this, I feel like I could take other's pointers and make use of it, so I appreciate the time you took to find out what issues there tends to be with my line in particular.

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The Stewarts of Appin book says Duncan's 4 younger brothers all fought at Flodden.  That would suggest that Duncan was pushing 50 by the time he married the widow of a 22-year marriage.  Nothing odd about that, but it would suggest that she was his 2nd wife, and his son was by a previous wife.

Then we'd have the couple pairing up their offspring by their respective previous marriages, as happens - his son marrying her granddaughter in this case.

But there could still be time for Duncan and Jean to have had a daughter together.

I'm surprised there isn't more said, as #12 is the famous Rob Roy and his father was 15th Chief of Clan Gregor, according to modern doctrine.  But nobody wants to talk about the possible Edward III descents of clan chiefs and outlaw heroes.

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Says the 1st of Appin probably married 1469 or soon after.  Alan was his 2nd son, say b 1472, making him 90 when he died.

Tight squeeze for Alan to have 5 sons at Flodden, but not quite impossible.  Duncan would have to be born about 1489.

Jean would be about the same age, as she married Campbell in 1507.

On the other hand we don't have a Flodden muster roll, so the notion that all 5 of Alan Stewart's sons fought might be tinged with a bit of romanticism.

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I have a similar linking ancestry pattern. Please let me know where the breakdown in proof is, especially if a post 1500 disconnect should be completed; otherwise, someone certified for pre-1500 would need to do that. Thanks:

Edward III is the 18th great grandfather of Fann

1. Fann, son of [private father]

2. [Private], son of Kelly Fann

3. Kelly, son of Samuel Adolphus Fann 
4. Adolphus, son of Margaret Ann (McMillan) Fann
5. Margaret, daughter of Dougald Alexander McMillan [unknown confidence]
6. Dougald, son of James McMillan [unknown confidence]
7. James, son of James McMillan [unknown confidence]
8. James, son of Dougald McMillan [unknown confidence]
9. Dougald, son of Mary (Cameron) McMillan [unknown confidence]
10. Mary, daughter of John Cameron [unknown confidence]
11. John, son of Donald Cameron [unknown confidence]
12. Donald, son of of Appin (Stewart) Cameron [confident]
13. of Lochiel, daughter of John Stewart [unknown confidence]
14. John, son of Jean (Gordon) Stewart [unknown confidence]
15. Jean, daughter of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon [confident]
16. Janet, daughter of John Stewart [unknown confidence]
17. John, son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident]
18. Joan, daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident]
19. John, son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident]
20. John, son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
This makes Edward III the 18th great grandfather of Fann. 

In the interim, I know that I can update the confidence on lines 2 and 3, at minimum, and probably line 4, too.

Answer 17

10. Caleb is the son of Henry Samson [confident] 
11. Henry is the son of Martha (Cooper) Samson [confident] 
12. Martha is the daughter of Mary (Wynne) Cooper [unknown confidence] 
13. Mary is the daughter of Siân (Bulkeley) Wynne [unknown confidence] 
14. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Griffith) Bulkeley [unknown confidence] 
15. Catherine is the daughter of Jane (Stradling) Griffith [confident] 
16. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq [confident] 
17. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling [confident] 
18. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [confident] 
19. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident] 
20. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

I've done the research. All sourced except 13., which looks highly unlikely.

10. Caleb is the son of Henry Samson [confident]

11. Henry is the son of Martha (Cooper) Samson [confident]

12. Martha is the daughter of Mary (Wynne) Cooper [confident]

13. Mary is the daughter of Siân (Bulkeley) Wynne [uncertain]

14. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Griffith) Bulkeley [confident]

15. Catherine is the daughter of Jane (Stradling) Griffith [confident]

16. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq [confident]

17. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling [confident]

18. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [confident]

19. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident]

20. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 

21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

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The history of the Gwydir family has a short genealogical chart of the children of Maurice Wynn on page 48 and Mary (line 13) isn't named at all.

Another publication Calendar of Wynn (of Gwydir) papers 1515-1690, (which only seems to be available in full-text on Ancestry.com) has a short mention of a draft will of Maurice Wynn, dated 20 Dec 1559, which again only names the 3 daughters as Elin, Dorothy and Margaret, the same as the previous publication.

The History of Parliament website does state that there were 5 daughters of Maurice and his first wife Jane (Sian) Bulkeley, but I would presume the other 2 not named in the above sources, died young?  Also this source makes a mistake with Jane Bulkeley's death date (it can't have been 1547 as their son John was born 1553 or 1554 and in the draft will of 20 Dec 1559, she is named as legatee and executrix,  So maybe there are other mistakes?

If Mary Wynne Cooper's marriage date of 14 Aug 1564 is reliably sourced then I don't think she can have been the daughter of Maurice Wynn and Sian Bulkeley based on chronology, as well as the sources mentioned above.

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Mary Wynne's profile cites a TAG article.  Her alleged daughter Agnes (Cooper) Tilley and her alleged grandson Henry Samson were on the Mayflower.

But it was my impression that the More children were the only Gateways on the Mayflower.

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PS sorry, it's her husband's profile that cites the TAG article.

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As mentioned, I did the research (on the unknown confidence profiles, including referencing ''The history of the Gwydir family''). The only one that doesn't link up is #13, and I made a note on Mary Wynne's profile: disputed parents. It's a PPP, so the project needs to disconnect Mary Wynne from the #13 parents, Thanks.

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Dwnn's pedigree

https://archive.org/details/heraldicvisitati02dwnn/page/159

has a date on it, 1588, which is 8 years after Maurice died.  It ignores wives 2 and 3 and the kids of wife 3.

Shows 3 sons not including Ellis (Hist Parl says 3 incl Ellis)

Shows a different wife for Richard

Shows 5 daughters, 2 dead, 2 married.  One of the dead ones is supposed to be one of the married ones.  No Mary.

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Oh joy - this page

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/thelwall-simon-1580-1663

thinks there was another daughter, Jane.

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No sorry, of course Jane was his daughter by his 3rd wife, Katherine of Berain.

Answer 18

13. Edward is the son of Thomas (Windham) Wyndham [unknown confidence] 
14. Thomas is the son of Henry (Wyndham) Wynham Knt [unknown confidence] 
15. Henry is the son of Thomas Wyndham [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Wentworth) Bourchier [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Henry Wentworth KB [unknown confidence] 
18. Henry is the son of Mary (Clifford) Wentworth [unknown confidence] 
19. Maria is the daughter of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident] 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident] 
22. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
23. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

This line is certainly not confident. There is some discrepancies with the Wyndham and the Wentworth lines.

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Wyndham pedigree

https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/324/

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Thank you for the info. Always glad to have another source to add. It's my Windham/Wyndham line after Edward that starts to get kind of sketchy. It does seem that the information is correct from Edward up until Thomas married Elizabeth Wentworth. Now to confirm the Wentworth line. I know there were some issues with the Wentworth line with a cousin Magna Carta gateway William Wentworth as actually being a gateway ancestor because of some questionable parentage and I am not sure if that applies to my Wentworth line here. There is so much research left to be done on these two family names. I try to pick a Sir name a month to work on, but I always end up squirreling around and down a whole different route. Lol

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Well, I just looked at the Wentworth to King Edward profiles and they are well documented and all listed in Richardson's books. So I would say the Edward Windham/Wyndham should be added to the gateway list for King Edward. When I get a chance I will try to go througo and clean up the profiles and add the source given here to the appropriate profiles.

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There's a lot of confusion around the immigrant generations.

The burgess qualifies for the Jamestowne Society, it says here

http://www.jamestowne.org/wilkinson---windham.html

if you can prove a line of descent.  But it's not a tightly filtered list - most of the early burgesses are listed automatically without taking a view on whether provable descendants exist.

Leo shows a gateway

http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00527986&tree=LEO

which shows that the line is in play, though not necessarily proved to everybody's satisfaction.

Question is whether the burgess is the son of Thomas and Sarah and whether Edward of Isle of Wight County is the son of the burgess.

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One of the Windham researchers has a website that he has Sources listed. I haven't seen the actual source document. Maybe someone knows how to retrieve it. He lists a Baptism for Edward at age 4 and I would think that it would list parents in the record. I would love to know. Here is the source he listed for that Norfolk Visitations - Bysshe - 1934 - Vol. 2 - Pages 246-7; Norfolk Families - Rye - 1913 - Page 1043).. As far as son Edward of Isle of Wight. I have found no records to prove he is the Edward son of the Burgess Edward. I really need to get back on my Windham lines. They need a bit of work and revamping. We have a lady that is searching out people to Au and Y dna test. She actually paid for mine because I am the only one that she came in contact with that was a descendant of a particular Windham. She has since wrote me saying she found a male from that line to y-dna test. I need to see where that has lead her. The line down from Burgess Edward gets a little tricky and some say there was more than one Windham family in the area, but others say that they all are the same family line. Info I have found only shows one Windham that immigrated to Virginia and that is why people are trying to say that his son Edward has to be Edward of Isle of Wight. Who knows. I love genealogy, but it makes my head spin son times. Lol

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Bysshe's Visitation in 2 vols

https://books.google.com/books?id=fOMRAAAAIAAJ

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000840714

but I can't access it.  Nor this

https://books.google.com/books/about/Norfolk_Families.html?id=tnrGmgEACAAJ

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The question is almost always do we know/prove the English origins of the immigrant.  The website noted seems very well researched with many good sources.  However, we hit a major problem with this:
 

"Apparently, Edward Windham returned to England about this time as his name does not appear among the new councillors appointed in June 1652, nor indeed does his name appear of record in America after 1652. He was buried in Stokley, Norfolk in September 6, 1664 (Norfolk Archaeology - Vol. 2 - Page 274).

It is here that the genealogy becomes confused, principally because of the only known entry showing Edward's death. This reads: "Edw. Windham, bapt. 15 April 1612, ob.s.p" (Norfolk Archaeology - Vol. 2 - Page 274).

This would indicate the burgess died without posterity but the record belies such assumption. In the first place, as witness to the will of Robert Powys, he sign himself as "Edward Windham, senior", indicating the existence of a son named for himself. It has been suggested that the younger Edward was an illegitimate son but this hardly seems likely in view of the elder's signature.

Since there was only one Edward Windham of record in Virginia or Maryland between 1652 and 1680 and no record of another having emigrated to these shores, this seems fair proof that he was the son of the burgess as the family records and traditions have always stated."

We have a primary record stating he died without issue, and then some hand waving saying this must be wrong.  My interpretation is different - the Edward Windham of Virginia is not the same person as Edward, son of Thomas Windham and Susan Clare.  It would be very helpful to actually review all of the references given on the website, though many are not readily available.  I would break the line here until better evidence or a better explanation of this problem is given.

Answer 19

It needs to be checked:

1. Caryl is the daughter of [private mother] [confident] 

2. [Private] is the daughter of Caryl Ellen (Pruett) Showalter [confident] 

3. Caryl is the daughter of James Ralph Pruett [confident] 

4. Ralph is the son of James Madison Pruett [confident] 

5. James is the son of Elizabeth (Ringo) Pruett [confident] 

6. Elizabeth is the daughter of Sarah (Hodge) Ringo [confident] 

7. Sarah is the daughter of John Hamilton Hodge [unknown confidence] 

8. John is the son of Jane (Hamilton) Hodge [confident] 

9. Jane is the daughter of Andrew Hamilton [unknown confidence] 

10. Andrew is the son of Audley Harrison Hamilton I [unknown confidence] 

11. Audley is the son of Catherine (Leslie) Hamilton [unknown confidence] 

12. Catherine is the daughter of James Leslie [confident] 

13. James is the son of John Leslie [confident] 

14. John is the son of James (Leslie) Leslie Master of Rothes [confident] 

15. James is the son of Grizel (Hamilton) Leslie [unknown confidence] 

16. Grizel is the daughter of James (Hamilton) Hamilton of Finnart [unknown confidence] 

17. James is the son of James (Hamilton) Hamilton Earl of Arran 1st [unknown confidence] 

18. James is the son of Mary (Stewart) Hamilton [unknown confidence] 

19. Mary is the daughter of James Stewart [unknown confidence] 

20. James II is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident] 

21. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident] 

22. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 

23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

This makes Edward III the 21st great grandfather of Caryl.

Comments

I rejected this in my own research notes/family tree.  I did not find enough evidence to connect Andrew Hamilton (Hamilton-3193) to the parents that are connected here.  I have in my notes to revisit this with the current PMs of his profile which I have not done yet.

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Caryl,

If you feel comfortable your sources, explain in the biography why Andrew Hamilton is not a son of Audley Harrison Hamilton I and Eleanor Adams.  You can put a notice to the PMs of your intention to correct the profile, and break the line.  It will save me the trouble of researching what you already know.  Part of the idea of this exercise to cleanup wikitree of these sort of errors.

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I will do that Joe.  I had more lines than this one.  I will take a hard look and break any that lack sources/evidence.

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Caryl, have you had time to get to this line?  Looks like we still need to to disconnect the relationship.

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I sent a PM to profile manager and I have not gotten any response.  Maybe you will have better luck?  I have been super busy over the holidays and haven't had anytime to work on it unfortunately.  I just left a message on Andrew's profile asking for evidence.  If I don't get any reply in a day or so I will disconnect him.

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Hi Joe,

I have disconnected Andrew Hamilton's parents from his profile (Hamilton-3193) and added a research note explaining why.

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Well Joe my efforts were all for naught.  The PM deleted the research note that I left.  She also left messages on my profile and on Andrew Hamilton's profile that expressed she was upset about the parents being removed.  I have apologized and pointed her to this G2G thread.  I will just leave it right there.  I am pretty upset right now at what I received when I was only trying to help and follow the wikitree honor code.

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It happens in this business. Believe me, I have made more than a few people mad breaking lines no matter how good my sources. The only thing to do is take a step back, present your sources and ask for sources.  I will break this line anyways at the next generation as John Leslie, 6th Earl of Rothes did not have a son James.

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I have broken the line at 13.  James Leslie is not a son of John Leslie as is easily shown.  I don't know about the Hamiltons that follow, but they are not well documented and seem unlikely.

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Thanks Joe.

Answer 20

Ok, I used relationship finder and I do not connect to Plantagenet-70.

Comments

Many people won't.  It is a fairly select number of immigrants who descend from Edward III.

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The initial check just checks 15 generations. Edward III is too far back for that. After you comes up with no relationship found at 15 generations, there is an option to Search 30 Generations. Make sure you try that.

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Isabel Hildyard Legard (Hildyard-1) do you consider her a Gateway Ancestor from, say, Jane Skepper, arrival 1639 in Boston, MA.

If it matters to your exercise I'm Johnson-43462. Like another of your followers herein I couldn't do a copy/paste from any of the Plantagenets and their direct relationship to me. I could copy the relationship text elsewhere (like a word doc) but this 'box' won't accept a paste function from me.

If you or one of your people have the time? If there's something you need me to do please advise. Thanks either way.  Leigh Anne

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The gateway ancestor would be William Skepper, who is already on the list as one of the confirmed descendants of Edward III.

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Thanks Joe,

I do see , he is my 21st great grandfather, but I don't know some of the confidence areas will hold, especially in the Nannau range. Not seeing Skepper in my chart.

Sherrie

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Sherrie, I put your line from Robert Owen in a separate answer below.  I have not seen it before, but it looks like it is lacking documentation at multiple steps.