Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one? (Round 2)

+45 votes
9.3k views

This is round two of an old G2G question.  Round one is here.  The idea here is to find new gateway ancestors.  If your ancestor already appears on the list below there is no need post the line.

Below is a list of 17th century new world immigrants with a recognized descent from Edward III, king of England. The list was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson, author of the Royal Ancestry series.  Links to all of them can be found on this page.

This list currently is 70 individuals representing 55 different families. Of the 70 individuals, 32 settled in the Southern Colonies, 27 in the New England Colonies, and 11 were part of the Quaker migration to the Middle Colonies.

Use the Relationship Finder to find if you have a connection to Edward III, king of England (Plantagenet-70). Does your gateway ancestor appear below?  If not, we will work to prove or disprove your connection.

Do you have a gateway ancestor from a population group other than American colonial immigrants (e.g. Australian, South African, European, etc.)? Post them here or in a separate G2G post and we will create new categories and new lists to track them. The line must be very well documented.

The List of 17th Century New World Immigrants

Barbara Aubrey, John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, St. Leger Codd, Elizabeth & Thomas Coytemore, William Crymes, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Agnes Mackworth, Oliver Manwaring, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Mary Johanna Somerset, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

in Genealogy Help by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (258k points)
Joe, I was able to break the line myself, BUT, how to keep it that way? There’s already a ===Disputed Origins=== section there for him.

- Nancy
Thanks Nancy. I will have the Southern Colonies project add project protection to the profile.

Margaret Toshach is being accepted as one of the very additions to the ancestors of Ed. III list.

I am a Lowe and was wondering if we are related. Edward 111 is my 19th great grandfather.

Nancy Lowe Sitlar
Appears we are 6th cousins 1x removed.
THAT IS AWESOME. HELLO COUSIN!!
can someone check mine Craven-3277. it shows Edward III is my 20th gif but it won’t let me post it here because it’s too long.

Thanks!

Sheryl, I posted your line in round 3 of this question. 

Your line runs through Jane Deighton, one of the relatively few immigrants with a proven ancestry to Edward III.

The line is good, at least starting from Jane on.  I will leave it to you confirm the rest of the American ancestry.

Thank you so much Joe! This was fun and interesting and I truly appreciate all you have done. It wasn’t easy answering all these requests. We kept you really busy and you went above and beyond! You are awesome!

16th great grandson

1. William is the son of Reynolds Palmer (abt.1790-1856) [confident]
2. Reynolds is the son of Elizabeth (Edwards) Palmer (1769-1846) [confident]
3. Elizabeth is the daughter of Cadwallader Edwards (abt.1740-abt.1796) [unknown confidence]
4. Cadwallader is the son of Anne Bunbury (abt.1720-bef.1751) [unknown confidence]
5. Anne is the daughter of Henry Bunbury (abt.1670-) [unknown confidence]
6. Henry is the son of Thomas Bunbury (abt.1636-1682) [unknown confidence]
7. Thomas is the son of John Bunbury (-abt.1644) [unknown confidence]
8. John is the son of Henry Bunbury (abt.1566-1634) [unknown confidence]
9. Henry is the son of Bridget (Aston) Bunbury (abt.1548-1626) [unknown confidence]
10. Bridget is the daughter of Margaret (Ireland) Aston (1528-bef.1594) [confident]
11. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Ireland (abt.1503-1545) [confident]
12. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Stanley) Ireland (abt.1480-1518) [unknown confidence]
13. Margaret is the daughter of James Stanley (1458-1515) [unknown confidence]
14. James is the son of Eleanor (Neville) Stanley (1438-bef.1472) [unknown confidence]
15. Eleanor is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460) [unknown confidence]
16. Richard is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
17. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
18. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]
This makes Edward the 16th great grandfather of William.

This is for an Australian gateway ancestor,  William is 

William George Palmer (1824-1897) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

I am however not very confident in this line

118 Answers

+9 votes

I am fairly certain that Edward 3rd is my 19th Great Grandfather and Augusta Maria Julia Suffield is my nominated gateway ancestor that migrated to Melbourne Australia in 1839. My direct line is as follows.

1 Edward 3rd 

2 John of Gaunt 

3 Joan Beaufort 

4 Edward Neville 

5 Margaret Neville 

6 Thomas Brooke 

7 George Brooke 

8 Catherine Brooke 

9 Frances Jerningham

10 Henry Bedingfeld

11 Henry Bedingfeld 

Down to this point in my line it is basic English history and all of the above is straight forward, however for Mary Bedingfeld down to Henry D'arcy Suffield I have provided links to their wikitree pages that provide the evidence for the Mary Bedingfeld, Thomas Eyre of Hassop, Ellen Eyre, Thomas Woode, Mary Woode, Robert Suffield and Henry D'arcy Suffield connections.

12 Mary Bedingfeld 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bedingfeld-15

13 Ellen Eyre 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Eyre-762

14 Mary Woode 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Woode-31

15 Robert Suffield 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Suffield-62

16 Henry D'arcy Suffield 

married Maria Augusta Cramer daughter of the famous Violinist Wilhelm Johann Cramer, King George 3rds personal chamber musician.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Suffield-60

17 Augusta Maria Julia Suffield 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Suffield-59

(migrated to Melbourne Australia in 1839). Although there are numerous pieces of evidence to suggest that Augusta is Henry D'arcy Suffield's daughter, including her mother's name, our family can't find a birth certificate for Augusta, we suspect that unlike her siblings who all have England birth records, that she may have been born in Ireland as the Suffield's had Irish family weddings and funerals that they may have attended around the time of her birth, however, I am a DNA match for numerous descendants of Augusta's siblings Henrietta Suffield and Dr W H Suffield that says we have a common ancestor that is Henry D'arcy Suffield, Augusta's father.

As for the remainder of my line below, anyone can look up the BDM records for free on Australian government records sites as it has been law in Australia since before the 1850s for all Australian BDMs to be registered.

18 John Henry D'arcy Forrest 

19 Richard Forrest 

20 Sylvia Irene Forrest 

21 Margaret Faye Moore-Jackson

22 Mark Richard Hutchinson (me)

by Mark Hutchinson G2G4 (4.6k points)
Interesting line Mark.  As is usually the case, the problem is at the immigrant generation.  You don't have any direct evidence as to the parents of Augusta Suffield.

It would appear that your circumstantial evidence may be strong enough to accept the identification.  Since this is the key step, can you spell out the reasoning more clearly on her profile?   Much of the argument is onomastics  - what are the sources for the middle names?  Sources for origins in Ireland?  Explain your DNA evidence (DNA evidence is often misinterpreted or misrepresented).  Sources on her parents and grandparents need to be improved.

Since this not a published line, if we improve the sourcing I think we can add (or create) her to the Australian gateway ancestors section.
Thanks for the reply John.

Ok, I have beefed up Augusta Maria Julia Suffield's profile with some sources that give about as strong a circumstantial case as is possible, then add to that my autosomal DNA test results that I did on ancestry.com that say I have numerous 5th cousins who's family trees show they are descendants of two of Augusta's siblings, then I think I have overwhelmingly shown Augusta Maria Julia Suffield to be Henry D'arcy Suffield and Maria Augusta Cramer's daughter.

Have a look using Augusta's link above.

If you're happy with that, then I shall work backwards and deal with her father Henry D'arcy Suffield next.

Cheers, Mark.
+8 votes

It looks like [[Terry-637]] is a gateway ancestor. Does he not qualify because of Cecilia Neville Weston? All other connections are confident 

10. Abigail is the daughter of Stephen Terry [confident] 
11. Stephen is the son of Mary (White) Terry [confident] 
12. Mary is the daughter of Isabel (Bawle) White [confident] 
13. Isabel is the daughter of Alice (Weston) Bawle [confident] 
14. Alice is the daughter of Cecilia (Neville) Weston [uncertain] 
15. Cecilia is the daughter of Ralph Neville [confident] 
16. Ralph is the son of Ralph Neville KB [confident] 
17. Ralph is the son of Anne (Holland) Douglas [confident] 
18. Anne is the daughter of John (Holland) de Holland [confident] 
19. John is the son of Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG [confident] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

by Bill Pease G2G6 Mach 3 (30.8k points)

This is an interesting one.  Basically, the answer is the descendants of Cecilia Neville are not on the list because it is not accepted by Richardson that she is the daughter of Ralph Neville.  He thinks it was too obscure of a marriage for the daughter of such an illustrious family.  I think this is ridiculous.  It was not too obscure of a marriage, and the amount of fraud it would have taken to perpetuate the myth just doesn't make since.  There are 100s of posts in the SGM archives regarding the controversy, and there is a discussion here.

Thanks. Now it’s time to improve the connection from Stephen Terry to me.
This is my (sketchy) connection to Edward III too - there's probably a lot of people who share this line.

Pedigree fraud happened - certainly if you had a high income there were ways you could 'purchase' more status and that was one way to do it. But morgantic marriages happened all the time in England too - they were common enough they didn't have as much of a stigma to actually use the term and a sufficient bag of cash was usually all it took - I think that's the main reason for the skepticism.

Did Lichfield merchant John Weston have enough cash to give Thomas Darcy to marry his step-daughter to improve his low gentry status? Honestly, this seems just as plausible as a very complicated conspiracy a couple of generations later.
+8 votes

Here's one to try (don't know how to format the lists used here):

  1. [[Plantagenet-70|Edward III of England]]

  2. [[Plantagenet-374|Lionel Plantagenet]]

  3. [[Plantagenet-190|Philippa Plantagenet]]

  4. [[Mortimer-47|Elizabeth Mortimer]]

  5. [[Percy-23|Henry Percy]]

  6. [[Percy-44|Henry Percy]]

  7. [[Percy-50|Henry Percy]]

  8. [[Percy-1|Eleanor Percy]]

  9. [[Stafford-33|Mary Stafford]]

  10. [[Neville_881|Catherine Neville]]

  11. [[St Leger-131|Frances St Leger]]

  12. [[Stucley-57|Mary Stucley]]

  13. [[Weekes-523|Francis Weekes]]

  14. [[Weekes-524|Richard Weekes]]

  15. [[Weekes-522|Richard Weekes]]

  16. [[Weekes-492|Martha Weekes]]

  17. [[Hole-662|Richard Hole]]

  18. [[Hole-661|Humphrey Aram Hole]]

  19. [[Hole-657|George Hole]]

  20. [[Hole-655|Julia Hole]]

  21. [[Bethune-355|George Maximilian Bethune]]

by Living Bethune G2G6 (7.5k points)
reshown by Living Bethune
+7 votes
For some reason I can't paste to the forum. I'm on a tablet, probably the problem. So here is my version:

Clawson-1056 Terri Clawson

Clawson-1052 Ronald Clawson

Clawson-1053 Robert Clawson

Clawson-1054 Oscar Leroy Clawson

Clawson-311 Henry Vantik Clawson

Gleason-545 Clarissa Gleason

Howland--1322 Abigail Howland Gleason

Lapham-694 Sarah Lapham

Lapham-340 Benjamin Lapham

Lapham-50 John Lapham Jr.

Mann-89  Mary Mann Lapham

Hopkins -124 Frances Hopkins Mann (my gateway ancestor)

Hopkins -4691 William Hopkins

Poole -154 Mary Poole Hopkins

Wentworth-156 Anne Wentworth Pokey

Wentworth -165 Thomas Wentworth

Wentworth -157 Richard Wentworth

Wentworth -82  Henry Wentworth

Clifford -254 Mary Clifford Wentworth

Percy-86 Elizabeth Percy Neville

Mortimer-47 Elizabeth Camoys Mortimer

Plantagenet-190 Phillippa Plantagent Mortimer

Plantagenet-374 Lionel Plantagenet of Antwerp

Plantagenet-70 Edward III of England

Some of these aren't confident. Guess I have some work to do!

Terri
by Terri Swift G2G6 Mach 2 (23.8k points)

Wentworth-156Hon Anne Wentworth (bur. 29 Aug 1575), mar. Sir John Poley, of Bradley (d. 20 Oct 1589), 1st son and heir of Edmund Poley, of Bradley, by his wife Mirabel Garneys, dau. of John Garneys, of Kenton, co. Suffolk.

I disconnected Poole-154. She's apparently a fabrication and not the da. of Anne Wentworth and Sir John Poley.

Darn. Back to the drawing board.
+7 votes

trying again.

1. Terri is the daughter of Ronald Clawson DNA confirmed 
2. Ronald is the son of Robert Eugene Clawson [confident] 
3. Robert is the son of Oscar Leroy Clawson [confident] 
4. Oscar is the son of Henry Vantik Clawson [confident] 
5. Henry is the son of Clarissa (Gleason) Clawson [confident] 
6. Clarissa is the daughter of Abigail (Howland) Gleason [unknown confidence] 
7. Abigail is the daughter of Sarah (Lapham) Howland [unknown confidence] 
8. Sarah is the daughter of Benjamin Lapham [unknown confidence] 
9. Benjamin is the son of Mary (Russell) Lapham [unknown confidence] 
10. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Forbes) Russell [unknown confidence] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Forbes [confident] 
12. John is the son of Christian (Barclay) Forbes [unknown confidence] 
13. Christian is the daughter of Mary (Erskine) Barclay [unknown confidence] 
14. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Scrymgeour) Erskine [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Isobel Gray [unknown confidence] 
16. Isobel is the daughter of Elizabeth (Stewart) Gray [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Stewart [unknown confidence] 
18. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident] 
19. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident] 
20. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
This makes Edward III the 19th great grandfather of Terri.

by Terri Swift G2G6 Mach 2 (23.8k points)

Apparently the line needs to be broken at Elizabeth (Stewart) Gray.

"At this point, Gray's marriage to a daughter of the 1st Earl of Atholl needs to be considered unsupported outside of secondary pedigrees."

I put a comment on her profile - In this time period Scottish courtiers of King James were openly in defiance of the Church teachings on marriage. There was a blurred line between a mistress and a spouse who was recognized by their peers but not the courts or Church. It is odd, but because of their social status it is plausible they were "married" w/o any contract or settlement.

That said it doesn't really help with documentation.
So what's the verdict on this one? Is it a plausible line or should I find another one?
+6 votes
Hi - I think I have a gateway ancestor for Ed III in Australia, my great grandfather, Rigg-914 - Herbert Rigg.
by Andrew Rigg G2G1 (1.3k points)
Interesting ancestry Andrew.  The line from Edward III down to Patrick Leslie (1548-1608) is easy to document.  The generations from William Herman Rigg to Patrick Leslie need to be properly documented.
Looks like I've got some work to do!
I've done some work on the profiles associated with Herbert Rigg (rigg-914).  See relationship here - https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Plantagenet-70&person2_name=Rigg-914

Would like to put Herbert forward as a gateway ancestor for Australia.
Great, fun line Andrew with lots of interesting people. I have been able to confirm each and every step.

We choose Edward III for this project as the most recent monarch that most people have any shot of connecting to, but not so far back that everyone connects (like say Henry II).  I note you and your great-grandfather of have lines to James V, king of Scots and Henry VII, king of England.

I have added Herbert William Rigg as a gateway ancestor for Australia.  I would normally like to identify someone farther back in time as a "gateway" so that he would have more descendants who could connect to him, but I cannot really find someone who really fits the definition (that key ancestor who connects one population group to the next).
Thanks Joe - it was an interesting process.
+6 votes

Yes, I know there are broken lines. I have checked this each time this thread appears in my eyesight. One time he is the next he isn’t. 

I have not tried to “prove” the broken lines. I am working on other things. Not trying to sound glib about it. It just isn’t my area of expertise. I try to keep focus on Dixie where my knowledge lies after 25+ years of research.

I can say I have several Magna Charta Barons in my line, some presidents, a couple of governors, and assorted outlaws. :)

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Plantagenet-70&person2_name=Ward-11186

by Gigi Tanksley G2G6 Mach 4 (43.9k points)
+6 votes

Edward III appears to be my 21st great-grandfather. Please let me know if any of these ancestors would be helpful to prove.

1. Veronica is the daughter of [privatefather] [confident] 
2. [Private] is the son of Bob Gilbert[confident] 
3. Bob is the son of George Burton Gilbert (1881-1951) [confident] 
4. George is the son of Elizabeth (Judd) Gilbert (abt.1859-1918) [confident] 
5. Lizzie is the daughter of Minerva (Woodward) Judd (abt.1835-abt.1925)[confident] 
6. Minerva is the daughter ofMinerva (Pierpont) Woodward (1809-1837)[confident] 
7. Minerva is the daughter ofSherman Pierpont (1783-1836) [unknown confidence] 
8. Sherman is the son of Elizabeth (Collins) Pierpont (1755-1815) [unknown confidence] 
9. Elizabeth is the daughter ofCharles Collins (1727-1796) [unknown confidence] 
10. Charles is the son ofElizabeth (Hyde) Collins (1701-) [unknown confidence] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Calkins) Hyde (1673-abt.1752)[unknown confidence] 
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Calkins (1634-1702) [unknown confidence] 
13. John is the son of Hugh Caulkins (1603-1690) [unknown confidence] 
14. Hugh is the son ofRowland Caulkins (1570-abt.1661) [unknown confidence] 
15. Rowland is the son ofElizabeth (Morgan) Calkins (abt.1538-1599)[unknown confidence] 
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of Rowland Morgan (abt.1508-abt.1577) [unknown confidence] 
17. Rowland is the son of Elizabeth (Vaughan) Morgan (1486-abt.1524) [confident] 
18. Elizabeth is the daughter of Joan (Whitney) Vaughan (abt.1462-1550) [confident] 
19. Joan is the daughter of Constance (Tuchet) Whitney (abt.1440-bef.1470) [unknown confidence] 
20. Constance is the daughter of Eleanor (Holand) Touchet (abt.1405-1452) [confident] 
21. Eleanor is the daughter of Constance (York) le Despencer LG (abt.1374-1416) [confident] 
22. Constance is the daughter of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG (1341-1402) [confident] 
23. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident] 
This makes Edward III the 21st great grandfather of Veronica.

by Veronica Newsom G2G1 (1.5k points)
By the references on WikiTree, the line breaks at 14-15-16.  Rowland Morgan had a daughter Elizabeth but she married Edward Kerneys, not Hugh Calkin.  I haven't fully tried to research this yet, but these are the generations which need to be proved or disproved.
I haven’t found ever Rowland Morgan in my ancestor history before, so that is where I thought the line broke down as well.
+5 votes

Line of Nancy (Lowe) Sitzler

1. Nancy is the daughter of Elmer Lowe 
2. Elmer is the son of [private mother]
3. [Private] is the daughter of John Keathley (abt.1873-1947)
4. John is the son of Jane (Massengill) Keathley (1844-1931) 
5. Jane is the daughter of Meshack Hembree (1812-1885)
6. Meshack is the son of John Henry Hembree Jr (1772-1836)
7. John is the son of John Hembree (abt.1744-abt.1808) 
8. John is the son of Mary Moore (Ayers) Hembree (1721-1751) 
9. Mary is the daughter of John Moore (1684-1728) 
10. John is the son of James Elzie Moore Sr. (abt.1639-1706)
11. James is the son of Jane (Barnewell) Moore (abt.1600-) [unknown confidence]
12. Jane is the daughter of Mary (Bagenall) Barnewall (1562-1609)
13. Mary is the daughter of Eleanor (Griffith) Bagenal (abt.1530-1573)
14. Ellen is the daughter of Edward Griffith (1511-1540)
15. Edward is the son of Jane (Stradling) Griffith (abt.1480-bef.1520) 
16. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq (aft.1454-1480)
17. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling (abt.1412-1476) [confident]
18. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling (abt.1390-1479)
19. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort (abt.1374-1447) 
20. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (258k points)
+5 votes

Line of Nancy (Lowe) Sitzler

1. Nancy is the daughter of Elmer Lowe 

5. Jane is the daughter of Meshack Hembree (1812-1885)
6. Meshack is the son of John Henry Hembree Jr (1772-1836)
7. John is the son of John Hembree (abt.1744-abt.1808) 
8. John is the son of Mary Moore (Ayers) Hembree (1721-1751) 
9. Mary is the daughter of John Moore (1684-1728) 
10. John is the son of James Elzie Moore Sr. (abt.1639-1706)
11. James is the son of Jane (Barnewell) Moore (abt.1600-) [unknown confidence]
12. Jane is the daughter of Mary (Bagenall) Barnewall (1562-1609)
13. Mary is the daughter of Eleanor (Griffith) Bagenal (abt.1530-1573)
14. Ellen is the daughter of Edward Griffith (1511-1540)
15. Edward is the son of Jane (Stradling) Griffith (abt.1480-bef.1520) 
16. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq (aft.1454-1480)
17. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling (abt.1412-1476) [confident]
18. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling (abt.1390-1479)
19. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort (abt.1374-1447) 
20. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (258k points)
What is the evidence for the parentage of James Elzie Moore?  It seems very unlikely.
Patrick Barnewall and his wife Mary Bagenal are said in their Wikipedia article and in the Peerage of Ireland to have had exactly 4 daughters (Eleanor, Sarah, Margaret, Mary), none of them named Jane and none married to Rory O'More.  

I know I saw that the brother-in-law of Rory O'More was Viscount Kingsland which would make his wife a daughter of Patrick Bagenal.  This needs to be figured out.
+6 votes
This is very fascinating...

1. Brian is the son of Kenneth David Kerr (1950-2005) [confident]
2. Kenneth is the son of Ilda Louise Dorothy (Allen) Kerr (1928-2017) [confident]
3. Ilda is the daughter of Ernest James Allen (1897-1957) [confident]
4. Ernest is the son of Isaac Parker Allen (1856-1923) [confident]
5. Isaac is the son of Squire Jedediah Allen (1820-1895) [confident]
6. Squire is the son of Isaac Peace Allen (1799-1843) [confident]
7. Isaac is the son of Jedidiah Allen Sr. (1763-1843) [confident]
8. Jedidiah is the son of Solomon Allen (1731-1826) [confident]
9. Solomon is the son of Catherine (Furbush) Allen (abt.1708-1797) [confident]
10. Catherine is the daughter of Daniel Furbush (1664-abt.1745) [confident]
11. Daniel is the son of Rebecca (Perriman) Forbush (1639-1677) [unknown confidence]
12. Rebecca is the daughter of Mary (Snelling) Perriman (bef.1608-bef.1679) [unknown confidence]
13. Mary is the daughter of John Snelling (1580-1639) [unknown confidence]
14. John is the son of Thomas Snelling (abt.1560-abt.1644) [unknown confidence]
15. Thomas is the son of Jane (Speccott) Snelling (abt.1530-) [unknown confidence]
16. Jane is the daughter of Jane (Grenville) Speccott (abt.1505-) [unknown confidence]
17. Jane is the daughter of Roger Grenville (abt.1477-1524) [confident]
18. Roger is the son of Thomas Grenville (abt.1450-1513) [unknown confidence]
19. Thomas is the son of Thomas Grenville (abt.1430-1483) [unknown confidence]
20. Thomas is the son of William Grenville (abt.1405-bef.1450) [unknown confidence]
21. William is the son of William Grenville (bef.1380-) [uncertain]
22. William is the son of Margaret Courtenay (abt.1345-) [unknown confidence]
23. Margaret is the daughter of Margaret (Bohun) de Courtenay (1311-1391) [uncertain]
24. Margaret is the daughter of Elizabeth (Plantagenet) de Bohun (abt.1282-1316) [confident]
25. Elizabeth is the daughter of Edward Plantagenet (abt.1239-1307) [confident]
This makes Edward I the 23rd great grandfather of Brian.

~Brian Kerr
by Living Kerr G2G6 Pilot (330k points)

The immigrant #11 Mary Snelling,as is usually the case, has a ton of problems. She's married to two different men with the same surname with two daughters with the same name each with a different father. The visitation of Devon says her husband was named Arthur (and her name was Marie not Mary...) and his profile says he died in Devon which makes me think this is a merging problem.

At #12 there's two daughters Mary: Perriman-5 and Periman-9. Perimann-9 has a note that she should have an Unknown surname, something to work on. The line goes through Perriman-5. 

Possible, but not probable and I'm sure if we dig into this more the line will be disconnected at #11. 

Oh Well... LOL! :-)

Thank you very much for taking the time in taking a look at this. After all these years, I'm sure/positive that there's some royal blood in my veins. LOL!

~Brian Kerr
+6 votes

Glad to see this thread having continued interest.

It looks like I finally have an official Gateway ancestor, George Reade, however I think my tree needs more research a few generations between myself and George Reade.  Most specifically between Robert Smith (1755 - 1841) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Smith-42520 and his father Robert Smith (1733 - bef. 1777) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Smith-85615. 

Edward III is the 18th great grandfather of Mabel

1. Mabel is the daughter of John Minor Swick (1870-1956) [confident]
2. John is the son of Cerenda (Stewart) Swick (1846-1911) [confident]
3. Cerenda is the daughter of John H Stewart (1799-1885) [unknown confidence]
4. John is the son of Mary Jane (Smith) Stewart (1778-1862) [unknown confidence]
5. Mary is the daughter of Robert Smith (1755-1841) [unknown confidence]
6. Robert is the son of Robert Smith (1733-bef.1777) [unknown confidence]
7. Robert is the son of Mildred (Reade) Smith (abt.1685-1754) [confident]
8. Mildred is the daughter of Robert Reade (abt.1644-bef.1723) [confident]
9. Robert is the son of George Reade Esq. (1608-bef.1671) [confident]
10. George is the son of Mildred (Windebank) Reade (abt.1580-aft.1630) [confident]
11. Mildred is the daughter of Frances (Dymoke) Windebanke (abt.1539-aft.1612) [confident]
12. Frances is the daughter of Anne (Tailboys) Carr (abt.1510-) [confident]
13. Anne is the daughter of Elizabeth (Gascoigne) Tailboys (abt.1471-1559) [confident]
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of William Gascoigne (abt.1445-abt.1487) [confident]
15. William is the son of Jane Neville (abt.1434-1486) [unknown confidence]
16. Jane is the daughter of John Neville Esq. (1416-1482) [confident]
17. John is the son of Mary (Ferrers) Neville (1394-1458) [confident]
18. Mary is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
19. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
20. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]
This makes Edward III the 18th great grandfather of Mabel.

by Erik Granstrom G2G6 Mach 4 (47.7k points)
+5 votes
Edward III is my 21st great grandfather. The immigrant ancestor is: Marie (Paulet) Epps.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Paulet-40
by Greta Moody G2G6 Pilot (198k points)

1. Marie is the daughter of Thomas Pawlett (aft.1588-1644) 
2. Thomas is the son of Catherine (Norreys) Poulett (abt.1560-1602) 
3. Catherine is the daughter of Henry Norris (1525-1601)
4. Henry is the son of Mary (Fiennes) Norreys (1495-abt.1531)
5. Mary is the daughter of Thomas Fiennes KB (abt.1472-1533) 
6. Thomas is the son of Alice (Fitzhugh) Fiennes (abt.1448-1516) 
7. Alice is the daughter of Alice (Neville) FitzHugh (abt.1430-aft.1503)
8. Alice is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460) 
9. Richard is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) 
10. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) 

How do we know the LNAB of Marie Pawlett? And how do we know her parents?  It appears that we know that her name was Mary/Marie from a single baptism record, and there is no record of her LNAB.

"The maiden name of his wife is unknown and her given name Marie [Mary] is known only from the baptismal record of their son. Mrs. Epes was still alive in January 1643/4 when Capt. Thomas Pawlett of Charles City, a brother of Sir John Pawlett, wrote his will, naming Francis Epes as one of the overseers of the will and leaving him his drum, giving to Mrs. Epes his Bible and 20 shillings to buy a mourning ring in his memory, and to his godchildren, Francis Epes (second son of Capt. Epes) and William Farrar (eldest son of William Farrar), ‘a silver spoon and my silver bowl and wine cup to be divided between them.’"

From this will it has been supposed she could be a daughter of Thomas Pawlett.  No family relationships are actually stated in the will and so this is very unlikely.  The line needs to be broken here unless better evidence can be found.

Having read the full will of Thomas Pawlett, it is clear he died leaving no children.  His estate he left to his brother, and then a remainder to Sir William Berklay his kinsman, if his brother had predeceased him.
Thanks for posting on Marie's profile. I agree that her parents should be disconneted.
+6 votes

1. Teri is the daughter of Raymond LeRoy Osborn Senior (1919-2011) DNA confirmed 
2. Raymond is the son of Charles Sylvester Osborn (1885-1951) DNA confirmed 
3. Charles is the son of Wallace Fremont Osborn (1862-1940) DNA confirmed 
4. Wallace is the son of Laura Ann (Hall) Osborn (1825-1904) [unknown confidence] 
5. Laura is the daughter of Daniel Hall (1779-1862) [unknown confidence] 
6. Daniel is the son of Elizabeth (Swift) Hall (1749-1817) [unknown confidence] 
7. Elizabeth is the daughter of Reuben Swift (1717-1773) [unknown confidence] 
8. Reuben is the son of Ruth Hatch (1693-abt.1750) [unknown confidence] 
9. Ruth is the daughter of Joseph Hatch I (1654-1736) [unknown confidence] 
10. Joseph is the son of Jonathan Hatch Sr. (1625-1710) [confident] 
11. Jonathan is the son of Thomas Hatch (1599-bef.1661) [confident] 
12. Thomas is the son of Arthur Hatch (abt.1578-1625) [confident] 
13. Arthur is the son of Cecilia (Chichester) Pollard (abt.1554-1584) [unknown confidence] 
14. Cecilia is the daughter of John Chichester (1516-1568) [unknown confidence] 
15. John is the son of Elizabeth (Bourchier) Chichester (1500-1548) [confident] 
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Bourchier KB PC (1470-1539) [confident] 
17. John is the son of Fulke Bourchier (1445-1479) [unknown confidence] 
18. Fulke is the son of William Bourchier (abt.1412-1471) [unknown confidence] 
19. William is the son of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester (1383-1438) [unknown confidence] 
20. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG (1355-1397) [unknown confidence] 
21. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident] 

This makes Edward III the 19th great grandfather of Teri. Not confident in some and need to return and evaluate sourcing...

by Teri Taylor G2G6 Mach 1 (10.5k points)
This line breaks, as usual, at the immigrant.  Thomas Hatch of Barnstable, Plymouth was not the son of Arthur Hatch of Aller, Devon (generations 11-12).
+6 votes

Well gosh.  I've been playing wack-a-mole with bogus gateway ancestors on this project for years.  But now I seem to have an actual gateway back to John Plantagenet, making me a second cousin of Henry 21 times removed!  So now I just need to clean up all the "uncertains" between me and Mary Alin /Alyn (who could ALSO use a profile clean-up.)   Oh, and  fail to find any more bogus ancestors in there -- though that always leads to exciting new branches.

Good thing I found the originals of the South Parish / South Hadley / eventual Granby townbook on FamilySearch, because all sorts of people have miscopied that thing, and it's not indexed yet.  Plus those originals look nice in profiles.

1. Patricia is the daughter of [private father] [confident]
2. [Private] is the son of Doris Mabel (Dickinson) Hawkins (1903-abt.1930) [confident]
3. Doris is the daughter of Homer Ferry Dickinson (1871-1926) [confident]
4. Homer is the son of Henry Anderson Dickinson (1833-1904) [confident]
5. Henry is the son of Henry Anderson Dickinson (1805-1853) [confident]
6. Henry is the son of Rachel (Eastman) Dickinson (1759-1844) [confident]
7. Rachel is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mosley) Eastman (1726-1810) [unknown confidence]
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Abner Moseley (1699-1766) [unknown confidence]
9. Abner is the son of Joseph Moseley (1670-1719) [unknown confidence]
10. Joseph is the son of Mary (Newberry) Phelps (1647-1727) [unknown confidence]
11. Mary is the daughter of Mary (Allyn) Newberry (bef.1628-1689) [confident]
12. Mary is the daughter of Margrett (Wyatt) Allyn (1595-1675) [confident]

by Patricia Hawkins G2G6 Mach 3 (35.4k points)
+6 votes

I have two possible lines. I've identified the Gateway Ancestor in Bold for each, and problem spots in red, but I don't really know where to go from where I'm at. Someone, help!

Line 1

1.Edward III Plantagenet is the father of

2.Lionel of Antwerp is the father of

3.Philippa Plantagenet is the mother of 

4.Roger de Mortimer is the father of 

5.Anne de Mortimer is the mother of 

6a.Isabel of York is the mother of

7a.William Bourchier is the father of

8a.Cecily Bourchier is the mother of

9a.Walter Devereaux is the father of 

10a.Richard Devereaux is the father of 

11a.Anne Devereaux (profile only partial from GEDCOM import) is the mother of 

12a.(No WikiTree Profile) Henry Clifford is the father of

13a.George Clifford is the father of

14a.John Clifford 1614-1694 is the father of

15a.Israel Clifford is the father of

16a.Isaac Clifford is the father of 

17a.Sarah Clifford is the mother of

18a.Nathaniel Ladd, Jr. is the father of

19a.Timothy Ladd if the father of

20a.Warren Ladd is the father of

21a.Edwin Llewelyn Ladd is the father of

22a.Stephen Elmer Ladd is the father of

23a.Marion Ladd is the mother of

24a.Kenneth Robert Whitney is the father (illegitimate) of 

25a.Kimberly Helen Lacey is the mother of

26a.Sarah Grimaldi 

 

Line 2

6b. Richard of York is the father of

7b. Edward IV Plantagenet is the father of

8b. Arthur Plantagenet is the father of

9b. Frances Plantagenet is the mother of

10b. Anthony Monck is the father of

11b. Thomas Monck is the father of

12b. (No WikiTree Profile) Mary Monck is the mother of 

13b. Thomas Hanscom 1623-1695 is the father of

14b. Job Hanscom is the father of

15b. Uriah Hanscom is the father of

16b. Gideon Hanscom is the father of

17b. Elizabeth Hanscom is the mother of

18b. Eleanor Meader is the mother of

19b. Edwin Llewelyn Ladd is the father of

20b. Stephen Elmer Ladd is the father of

21b. Marion Ladd is the mother of

22b. Kenneth Robert Whitney is the father (illegitimate) of 

23b. Kimberly Helen Lacey is the mother of

24b. Sarah Grimaldi 

by Sarah Grimaldi G2G6 Mach 2 (21.2k points)
edited by Sarah Grimaldi
+6 votes

I am reasonably confident Edward III is my 20th ggf . My nominated gateway emigrant is Charlotte Dana. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dana-435 Charlotte arrived in Australia on the ‘Cambodia’ 31 March 1852.

Anne is the daughter of Rafe Champion de Crespigny 
2. Rafe is the son of Geoff Champion de Crespigny
3. Geoff is the son of Constantine Trent Champion de Crespigny (1882-1952)
4. Trent is the son of Philip Champion de Crespigny (1850-1927) 
5. Philip is the son of Charlotte Frances Dana (1820-1904) 
6. Charlotte is the daughter of William Pulteney Dana (1776-1861) 
7. William is the son of Helen (Kinnaird) Dana (abt.1746-1791) 
8. Helen is the daughter of Charles Kinnaird (aft.1700-1767) 
9. Charles is the son of Helen (Gordon) Kinnaird (aft.1680-1731) 
10. Helen is the daughter of Charles Gordon 2nd (1670-abt.1702) 
11. Charles is the son of Charles Gordon 1st (1638-1681) 
12. Charles is the son of George Gordon KB (abt.1592-1648) 
13. George is the son of George Gordon (1563-1636) 
14. George is the son of George Gordon (abt.1535-1576) 
15. George is the son of George Gordon (1514-1562) 
16. George is the son of John Gordon (abt.1487-abt.1517) 
17. John is the son of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon (1461-1510) 
18. Janet is the daughter of John Stewart (abt.1440-1512) 
19. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart (abt.1402-abt.1445) 
20. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) 
21. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)

by Anne Young G2G6 Mach 9 (95.0k points)

The line is good. Congratulations. However, I will say many of profiles have not been properly developed and sourced for inclusion on our list. I see you have already added her, and I will leave her as I can trace each generation.  If you can, please develop the profiles with proper sources which prove each generation (for example, Helen (Gordon) Kinnaird and her husband contain no information and are sourced only by an untrusted personal website).

Thanks - work in progress
+6 votes

This is in my wife's tree. It's a line I haven't worked on, so I don't have a feel for its accuracy. It shows a direct connection to Edward, but Elizabeth (Fenwick) Ely is not in the gateway list, so not sure if that connection is supported or not.

11. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Fenwick) Ely (abt.1624-1683) [unknown confidence]
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Dorothy (Forster) Fenwick (abt.1575-) [unknown confidence]
13. Dorothy is the daughter of Phillis Forster (abt.1550-abt.1606) [unknown confidence]
14. Phillis is the daughter of Thomas (Forster) of Adderstone (bef.1519-aft.1589) [uncertain]
15. Thomas is the son of Dorothy Ogle (abt.1488-aft.1550) [unknown confidence]
16. Dorothy is the daughter of Margaret Gascoigne (abt.1473-aft.1515) [unknown confidence]
17. Margaret is the daughter of William Gascoigne (abt.1445-abt.1487) [unknown confidence]
18. William is the son of Jane Neville (abt.1434-1486) [unknown confidence]
19. Jane is the daughter of John Neville Esq. (1416-1482) [confident]
20. John is the son of Mary (Ferrers) Neville (1394-1458) [confident]
21. Mary is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
22. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

by Steve Hatchett G2G6 Mach 1 (18.4k points)
The very first step, Mary as a daughter of John Cullick and Elizabeth Fenwick, seems not to be accepted. I can see one piece of circumstantial evidence as to why this might be true. However, it is apparent people have been looking for decades without success.

Step 14. Phillis as a daughter of Thomas Forster of Adderstone is not sufficiently proven.
+6 votes

Hello everyone,  I am trying to help out during the Dr. Gates WikiTree week.  I was checking his connection to Edward III.  On Geni it is showing Edward III Dr. Gates 22nd great grandfather.  Though they are working on who the correct mother of Caroline McCullough was, but I wanted to post as I thought the supposed gateway ancestor could still be looked at.

Elizabeth (Nixon) McCullough (abt. 1821 - 1907)
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Nixon-4802

 Elizabeth McCullough

her mother → Rebecca "Becky" Nixon

her mother → William Holt

her father → Ann Hoult

his mother → Lawrence Owen

her father.  

Lawrence Owen: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Owen-8672

Edward III is the 13th great grandfather of Lawrence (Uncertain)

1. Lawrence is the son of Robert Owen (1672-1714) [unknown confidence]
2. Robert is the son of Edward Owen (abt.1651-1717) [confident]
3. Edward is the son of Robert Owen (1628-1685) [confident]
4. Robert is the son of Joane (White) Owen (abt.1592-abt.1630) [confident]
5. Joane is the daughter of John White (1562-1595) [unknown confidence]
6. John is the son of Isabel (Bawle) White (abt.1552-1601) [unknown confidence]
7. Isabel is the daughter of Alice (Weston) Bawle (abt.1520-aft.1574) [confident]
8. Alice is the daughter of Cecilia (Neville) Weston (abt.1491-1573) [uncertain]
9. Cecilia is the daughter of Ralph Neville (abt.1475-1499) [confident]
10. Ralph is the son of Ralph Neville KB (abt.1456-1498) [confident]

11. Ralph is the son of Anne (Holland) Douglas (abt.1430-1486) [confident]

12. Anne is the daughter of John (Holland) de Holland (abt.1395-1447) [confident]

13. John is the son of Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG (abt.1362-1425) [confident]

14. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]

15. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]


This makes Edward III the 13th great grandfather of Lawrence.

Looks like Robert Owen (1672 - 1714) would be the Gateway ancestor, though I don't see him on the list.

by Erik Granstrom G2G6 Mach 4 (47.7k points)

This is actually a very interesting and controversial line.  These lines usually fail at the immigrant generation and I have not checked out your first four Owen generations yet.

The interesting part is in generation 9 - is Cecilia who married John Weston really the daughter of Ralph Neville and the granddaughter of the Earl of Westmoreland. I personally believe she certainly was, however, it is not accepted by some of the key figures in medieval genealogy. To read more about the controversy see:

+6 votes
Yes I do have several!
by Amy Hamilton G2G3 (4.0k points)

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