Did Harmen Van Rijn have an eldest son named Gerrit (1590?-1631)?

+2 votes
43 views
Did this Harmen Van Rijn have an eldest son named Gerrit Van Rijn (1590?-1631), who in turn had a son Garrett Rutten (b. 1625?; died 1664, Baltimore County, Maryland).  This is the first time I've found a possible Dutch ancestor in Maryland, and wonder if Garrett Rutten really was from the Van Rijn family (as is claimed in the following source):

https://www.geni.com/people/Gerrit-Van-Rijn/6000000048461137961?through=6000000010001699821

P.S.  I am working on a profile for Garrett Rutten (Jr.?) here:

    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rutten-79

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WikiTree profile: Harman van Rijn
asked in Genealogy Help by Kenneth Kinman G2G6 Mach 4 (43.6k points)
retagged by Kenneth Kinman

4 Answers

+5 votes
In the Wikipedia article on his son Rembrandt Van Rijn (the painter), it says that Rembrandt was the ninth child of Harmen.  So there are apparently more than the three children presently listed in the Wikitree profile of Harmen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rembrandt
answered by Kenneth Kinman G2G6 Mach 4 (43.6k points)
+3 votes
I have created a profile for Garrett Rutten Sr. (b. ca. 1625), but I am not yet creating a profile for his supposed father Garrett Van Rijn (1590?-1631) until better sources are found.                     

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rutten-128

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
answered by Kenneth Kinman G2G6 Mach 4 (43.6k points)
+2 votes
Hi Kenneth,

They actually had ten children (Rembrandt apparently was the 9th child of the ten children that were born from this marriage) so added it to the profile now as well, and added the Geni Family tree to the sources section for now, because we can use sources like this for leads but if they don't cite primary or very reliable secondary records/sources we of course don't know how accurate things are, but we can check if things can be verified in the archives of course. ;)

And yes if they followed or were naming the children according  the Dutch naming tradition it would be very logic the first son was named after the paternal grandfather who was named Gerrit. We were (and still are) still looking for records for Rembrandts siblings so we can create profiles for them, so that's why just a few are listed yet.

Now what isn't very logic is that Gerrit would have had a son named Gerrit that would have used the probably patronymic (?) Rutten.

If Gerrit had a son named Gerrit, that son's patronymic  (a patronymic is the first name of father + ending s, sz, sen, szen, en or for girls dr or s, en etc. the ending often depends on time and place) would be Gerrits or Gerritsz not Rutten (Rutten, Ruttens or Rutsz)...

So the, most likely also a patronymic, Rutten, is probably telling us that Gerrit Rutten was a son of a father named Rut or something like that...if so and if they still used the Dutch naming tradition, he probably would have named his first son Rut again who would have used the patronymic Gerritsz again ..and so on.

Using the Patronymics and naming the children after the grandparents was done because they believed this way their ancestors would (sort of) live on forever, this also is why if for example the first child died young the next child would again be named after the grandparent the deceased child was named after, and if that child again didn't survive childhood, they again would name a child after the same grandparent. So these later children were not named after the siblings that died young, but after the grandparent and to make sure he (or she) still would live on forever. (In some families including my own, because of this naming tradition, names and ancestors can be traced back for hundreds of years)

And the names and patronymics often are repeated trough out all branches (so all siblings normally would name the first sons after the paternal and maternal grandfathers and the first daughters after the maternal grandmothers) which as you probably can imagine can make things very hard to research or confusing if they only used patronymics...

We can try if we can find more records for all children, perhaps there was a son named Rut (Rutger ?) as well ?
answered by Bea Wijma G2G6 Pilot (238k points)
edited by Bea Wijma
Thank you Bea.  As for the name Rutten, perhaps it was not a patronymic.  Could the name Rutten perhaps be how the name Rijn sounded to the English in Maryland?  Both names start with "R" and end with "n".

Thank you as well Kenneth, we really appreciate you asked this question and are patient and taking some time to research this before creating or connecting these early profiles without better sources ;) 

I don't think it was the name van Rijn or any confusion with the name, and why it even more looks like it was a patronymic (even though the endings are missing or slightly different..so Garrett with double t instead of Gerritsz or Gerrits)  is also because I found there also was this Rutten Garrett who might have been a son of Garret Rutten ? (Not sure if it's a good source but found it here: Noted events of life of Captain John Utie)

Nathaniel Utie of Baltimore Co. Gent, to Rutten Garrett of said County planter 300 acres, part of "Oakington" - 2 March, 1672. Lib. T. R. no. R. A. fol. 73.

The Hon. Col. Nathaniel Utie of Spesutia of the county of Baltimore, in the Province of Maryland Esquire, and Elizabeth his wife to Rutten Garrett - 180 acres part of Carter's Rest - 29 May, 1675 Lib. I. R. no. P. P. fol. 2

Hi Bea,

      I don't think there was a "Rutten Garrett", or that the 300 acres of Oakington was bought in 1672, so I wouldn't trust that source.  I trust the Archives of Maryland source (first source listed in the Wikitree profile of Garrett Rutten Sr.) with a court record showing this 300 acres of Oakington was bought in 1661 (which makes more sense since he died in 1664). And that court record repeatedly calls him Garrett Rutten (not Rutten Garrett).   Anyway, after doing some more research today, I will also be commenting on my skepticism about him supposedly being born at Amersfoort, Netherlands.

Garrett Rutten Sr.:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rutten-128

--------------------------------------------------------------
+3 votes
As I promised in my reply this morning, I did some more searching today.   
The idea that Gerritt Rutten Sr. was born in Amersfoort, Netherlands, seems to come from one tree on Ancestry showing him as a son of Lambertus Rutten who was married 23 January 1633 to  Helena Berben.  Helena is shown as having been born in Amersfoort.  However, the lack of sources and that they list Gerritt as having died in 1695 (rather than 1664) makes me very skeptical of an Amersfoort birthplace or Lambertus Rutten being his father.            Helena Berben:    https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/32122220/person/18515855517/facts  
     The IGI shows the 23 Jan 1633 marriage date for Lambertus:  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "International Genealogical Index (IGI)," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:9W8Q-LVY : accessed 22 December 2018), entry for Lambertus Rutten; submitted by ehamilton4019315 [identity withheld for privacy]; no source information is available.
          
     I am very puzzled by the idea that Gerritt Rutten Sr. was son of Garritt Harmenszoon Van Rijn (b. ca. 1590) who is said to have died 20 September 1631, Leiden, Netherlands.  I have a feeling that Garritt Harmenszoon Van Rijn (d. 1631) was indeed an older sibling of Rembrandt Van Rijn (the painter), but what evidence is there that Garritt Van Rijn is father of Gerritt Rutten Sr. of Maryland?  Did someone fabricate it so that they could claim to be related to the famous painter Rembrandt?  Or is there some evidence somewhere that they are connected?  That genealogical rumor is more widespread and thus more difficult to trace back to its origin, so it's hard to know if there is any evidence of a connection. 
answered by Kenneth Kinman G2G6 Mach 4 (43.6k points)
Thanks for doing the research Kenneth, (Christmas holidays and a lot of visitors kept me quite busy so sorry for the late response) I can understand your puzzled by it all and there seems to be no evidence for it + the name Gerrit Rutten just doesn't make a lot of sense either for a son of a man named Gerrit and born in the Netherlands in an area where patronymics were used, and... unfortunately it  wouldn't be the first time someone just fabricated something, or a connection like this, just to be able to say or claim they are related to someone famous...

The family members sometimes can be found in the archives (records) with the last name 'van Rijn' but also with just the patronymics sometimes, which is making things not really easy and making it harder to find records for them, but as soon as I have some spare time I'll look for more records again, and my guess still would be the father of Gerrit Rutten Sr was a man named Rut or something.or perhaps a different family that adopted Rutten for last name really early...but I don't expect we will find any proof he was a son of Gerrit Harmensz van RIjn..

Related questions

+5 votes
2 answers
+10 votes
2 answers
+2 votes
1 answer
+3 votes
0 answers
+3 votes
1 answer
106 views asked Nov 19, 2017 in Genealogy Help by Kristina Adams G2G6 Pilot (136k points)

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...