Profile of Ann Bate, wife of Rev. Stephen Bachiler (PGM)

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Anderson’s article in Great Migration makes it apparent that the name of Rev. Stephen Bachiler’s first wife is not known from identified historical records. She is said to have been closely related to John Bate, who succeeded Bachiler as the Vicar of Wherwell.[1]

Separate from historical records, I understand folks refer to Rev. Stephen’s first wife as “Ann Bate” saying further she was the sister of John Bate. At least in part, this explains why WikiTree reports Rev. Bachiler’s first wife as Bate-366,  “Ann Bate,” who has a brother John.*  

Comments follow, but I am not able to explain the further detailed information about her reported by WikiTree. Given what we know to be her limited identity, how can we explain:

  1. Why her brother is called John Bates (rather than John Bate).
  2. How the birth locations for the two purported siblings could be known; how their birth dates might have been estimated.
  3. Why/how the two siblings have been associated with parents, John Bate and Ann Bray, and more--they have a paternal, ancestral history going back to about 1300.
  4. Why Rev. Stephen’s wife would be reported to have also married a Bosworth and thus be the mother of a Joseph Bosworth.

It at least appears most of the references on Bate-336 are to family files and compilations devised from same (like Yates Publishing’s marriage records, Ancestral File, etc.).

I did try to discover more about the details that were being reported by consulting FamilySearch Historical Collections and searching both Google and Google Books.

Came away without any “good clues” from FamilySearch Historical Collections.

For any records about the name “John Bate” limited to the search location, “England, Hampshire,” with estimated birth year 1530 to 1580, there is only one return--death record, 1706, of a “Thomas Beetes,”  son of “John Beetes.”

For name “John Bate” for birth at England [exact] between 1530 and 1580 returns 162 hits (an unknown number, likely many, are duplicates).

For name “John Bate” with birth at England [exact] between 1530 and 1580 with father as John; mother [exact] as Ann, there were no returns.  

For name “John Bate” with birth at England [exact] between 1530 and 1580 with father [exact] as John; mother as Ann, there were 16 returns. (None with wife Ann.)

Also came away empty handed from a search of Google Books

Google Books - no returns for >> “John Bate” “Ann Bray” Wherwell <<.

Google Books- no returns for >> "John Bate” “Ann Bray”<<.

There are many, many internet family files reporting about “Ann Bate.” Others may want to conduct their own review, but I found considerable family files reporting the same deep ancestral connection for “Ann”--a woman about whom we “know” almost nothing. (Most of the same files did not report about the wife and children of purported sibling John Bate--all of which can be referenced to a historical record.)

I am sensitive that other WikiTree-ers want us to preserve what may be clues about someone’s ancestry, but I’d also like to clear some of the cobwebs from the profile about Rev. Stephen Bachiler’s first wife.

Have others had any success learning about the sources and reasoning being used to support the associations reported for “Ann Bate.”  

Suggestions? Are others interested in working on this? 

*There are two unmerged matches pending--(a) Bate-138 (August 2013); (b) Hester-288 (April 2014).

Update: Have struck the first item. There there may be a way to explain that reference in order to separately propose a change in his LNAB to "Bate." 

Update: Have created a separate G2G post regarding the purported Bate-Bosworth association, thus have struck the fourth item. 

----

[1] Robert Charles Anderson, ‘_The Great Migration Begins ..._, 3 volumes (1995), 1: pgs. 61-69.

WikiTree profile: Ann Bachiler
asked in Genealogy Help by GeneJ X G2G6 Mach 4 (49.6k points)
edited by GeneJ X

1 Answer

+1 vote
 
Best answer

Have you seen the article on the Lane Memorial Library site?  It's an article from 1991 by George Freeman Sanborn, Jr.  It mentions, "Further evidence that his first wife and mother of all his children was probably a sister of Rev. John Bate, Bachiler' successor at Wherwell, Hampshire, was discovered by Charles Edward Banks in an English court record (Court of Requests, Public Record Office, London. REQ2/678/64, dated 2 November 15 Charles I [1639]), and preserved by Charles Hull Batchelder in his extensive manuscript collection on the family at the New Hampshire Historical Society in Concord."

Further down it states, "The Sanborn Family Association in its continuing search among English records for the father of the three Samborne brothers who settled in Hampton with their maternal grandfather, Rev. Stephen Bachiler, is naturally interested in the Bachiler ancestry as well. Bachiler's daughter, Ann, widowed by the time she was 30, married secondly (by a license issued at Rochester) in Strood, Kent, on 20 January 1631/2 (Strood, Kent, parish register, Kent Record Office, Maidstone, Kent), as "Mrs Anne Sanborne," to "Mr Henry Atkinson," and they brought the suit mentioned earlier against John Bate, son of Rev. John Bate, thus establishing the basis of these family connections between Bate, Bachiler, and Mrs. Atkinson, among others."

You can view the article here:  http://www.hampton.lib.nh.us/hampton/biog/bachilerdeath.htm

Unfortunately, too many people copy what they find online without checking references and sources...

Rev. Stephen Bachiler is my 10x-great grandfather.  I wish that I had time to work with you on this, but right now I'm too busy with the EuroAristo project.  I will certainly be interested in whatever you may uncover/discover!

answered by Darlene Athey-Hill G2G6 Pilot (265k points)
selected by GeneJ X
Darlene,

Thanks for that. It would be great to see the actual 1632 court record being cited by the source above.

In the meantime, I cleaned up the horrifically long, post-merge narrative, and added a Disputed Origins section.

GeneJ, thanks again for your marvelous work.

I'd say we leave her maiden name as Bate and retain the connection to Rev. John Bate for now. I'm *assuming* the parents of Rev. John Bate(s)  have been identified and that's where THEY come from.

Hi Darlene Athey Hill

Thank you so much for posting the quote from George Freeman Sanborn, Jr. Provided the opportunity to look at the various suits again. First though, 

  1. I might be able to explain a basis for  the variant spelling "Bates." I either have or will cross that off the list above and address it separately. 
  2. I'm not motivated to change the LNAB associated with Rev. Stephen's wife ("Bate"). It's possible to explain why the surname is attribute to her in the biography. (More follows.) 

I do think we enter the slippery slope when we call her "Ann." We're half way down the mountain when we associate her with parents John and Ann (Bray) Bate. We've crossed into a different zone by reporting a deep ancestry dating back to say 1300. 

See also, Jillaine's helpful comment above. 

Again, thank you for including George Freeman Sanborn, Jr.'s quote. Realizing your time is scarce, appreciate even more if you have the chance to look over the notes below. 

As your time permits.--GeneJ

There are two English suits (or bills) that provide information about the Bachiler and Bate families. One was filed in 1614, the other, said in 1639. It seems to me that the 1614 suit establishes a basis for the Bachiler-Bates family tie (not the 1639 case). The 1614 case leaves us hanging a bit, thus adding a qualification about that surname in her biography makes sense.  

What am I missing, especially in terms of the 1639 case?

1614 suit: Albeit heresy, allegations made in this case establish a "cousin" relationship between the Bachiler and Bate families. 

The suit was filed by George Wighley against "Stephen Bacheler of Wherwell, clerk, Stephen Bacheler, his son, and other defendants" including John Bate.[1] Part of the case involved poems Wighley found objectionable. He claimed John Bate "of Wherwell, clerk" intended to keep one of the poems "as a monument of his cosens the said Stephen Bacheler the younger his witte, whoe is in truth his Cosen." 

John Bate and another defendant (Withers) reportedly filed responses to Wighley's claims; the Bachilers filed no response.

George F. Sanborn, Charles Hull Batchelder and Robert Charles Anderson have presumably had the benefit of the full case history (including the responses); I have not. This includes that while I'm confident one cousin is Stephen^2 Bachiler (Stephen^1), I'm not smart or informed enough to identify the cousin-ee, John Bate. Having tried to diagram this more than once, I defaulted to comments by Charles Hull Batchelder (c1936). He considered the co-defendant to be "Rev. John Bate," and wrote, "calling Rev. Stephen's son his cousin … furnishes the only clue I know, and it may be explained in several ways. It is possible Bate and Bachiler were brothers-in-law or they married sisters." 

For Charles Hull Batchelder's worthwhile overview of the 1614 case, see "Genealogy of the Batchelder Family of Hampton, New Hampshire: Free Download," for "Pages 1-50," pages 2-3.  Access it here: http://www.hampton.lib.nh.us/genealog/batchelder/index.htm     

1639 suit: This case establishes a long term association between the Bates and Bachilers. It identifies family relations (many) among the Bachilers and among the Bates, but I don't see that it directly mentions family relationships between them. 

The case was filed by "Henry Atkinson, London, gent" against "Dorcas Bate and others." As to the Bate family, the information identifies Rev. John's wife/widow as Dorcas; his three children as John Bate, Ann (Bate) Southwood (wife of Robert), and Gabriel Bate. Reports where Dorcas resides, etc. (Charles Hull Batchiler separately reports the will of "John Bate of Wherwell" was proved in 1633 at Winchester.) 

Worthwhile details and overview of this case found in _Sanborn Signatures_ 4.2 (1988):10-11. View it here: http://www.sanbornfamilyassociation.com/images/Vol4%20No2.pdf 

----

[1] As "John Bates" :-)

Hi Jillaine,

I've seen WikiTree-ers report an unproven given name in the "other nicknames" field.

Would that make sense here?
Hi Jillaine:

P.S. I too started the work from the assumption that the parents of Rev. John Bate had been identified, but that is not my understanding.

It isn't clear to me how the association has been made between the two likely siblings and those two particular parents.

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