LNAB Torture

+11 votes
Will someone who is Pre 1500 certified put this poor profile out of its misery and straighten out the LNAB? I suspect that Jonckvrouwe is a courtesy title as well.  Thank you.....
in Genealogy Help by Connie Graham G2G6 Mach 1 (12.1k points)
retagged by Maggie N.
Rather “over the top” with that name, wouldn’t you say? If I included every spelling of some of my family names, theirs would be just as long... too long!

Sources at the online search machine of Heusden goes back to early 1600. These persons lived 300 years earlier............ 

There are anyway multiple "mistakes" at this profile. Dutch profiles never have a "middle names". The middle name "Willems" might be/is probably a patronymic (her fathers first name was probalby Willem)  See Dutch Naming Conventions


According to findings at the internet Geertruid or Geertruijt's last name must be van Boxtel. Married to a Jan Pijlijser van Valkenvoorde, Knight and  "Leenman" of Holland for the house of Valkenoorde. Deceased for 25-07-1415. Found not any reliable source on anything mentioned above. 

Geertruijd named Willemsdr. van Boxtel without sources. Son was named according to leads Willem Pijlijser. 

Time to search for reliable sources. 

So far I could not find anything, not even old deeds. 


Maybe you should have a look at the answer and comments below.
Dank Jan. Stukje gemist............

2 Answers

+8 votes
Best answer
I would be happy to fix it if there was a source confirming what the proper last name should be. 'Brabant archief' has potential, but the citation is not precise enough to really help.
by Isabelle Martin G2G6 Pilot (455k points)
selected by Maggie N.
Brabant archief sounds like the nowadays BHIC in Den Bosch (="Brabants Historisch Informatie Centrum")
some members of the family have Dutch Wikipedia pages as "van Boxtel".

I'm puzzled though, because per Wikipedia (for what it's worth) her grandfather's title went to his younger brother. Why not to Geertruijt's father? It could be that he died with no sons before his father died, but the dates don't match that situation.


In 1391 was Geertruid dochter van wijlen heer Willem van Bucstel, ridder, gehuwd met Heer Jan Pijlijser, den jongen, van Valkenvoert, ridder, zoon van heer Pijlijser, ridder.
Bron: F. Beelaerts van Blokland: Edellieden vermeld in de oudste protocollen der 's-Hertogenbossche Schepenbank, in De Nederlandsche Leeuw 1913, nr. 8, p. 226 e.v.


In 1391 Geertruid was the daughter of the late Willem van Bucstel, knight, married to Lord Jan Pijlijser, the young, van Valkenvoert, knight, son of Lord Pijlijser, knight.
Source: F. Beelaerts van Blokland: Nobility mentioned in the oldest protocols of the 's-Hertogenbossche Schepenbank, in De Nederlandsche Leeuw 1913, nr. 8, p. 226 e.v.

The current LNAB Jonckvrouwe van Bucstel aka van Boxtel aka van Beuxtel should in my opinion be split:

  • Jonckvrouwe is a title and should be moved to Prefix
  • The aka's should be moved (with proper syntax) to Other Last Names

Also resolving other irregularities in the name components (from a Dutch point of view), my proposal is:

  • Prefix: Jonkvrouw
  • Proper First Name: Geertruid Willems
  • Other (sic!) Nicknames: Geertruijt, Gudele
  • no middle name
  • Last Name at Birth: van Bucstel
  • Current Last Name: van Bucstel
  • Other Last Name(s): van Boxtel, van Beuxtel
In this time period, the EuroAristo naming guidelines still apply which would mean that Bucstel would be the Last Name at Birth, and van Bucstel the Current last name.

Titles are placed in the Nickname field, and probably written in full - Jonkvrouw van Bucstel.

I don't know enough about Dutch naming patterns, but would Willems be used in this time period?  And are there any sources that name her in that way?

I don't know anything about EuroAristo naming guidelines and why they would be applicable in this case. Just made sure there exists a reliable source for her existence (De Nederlandsche Leeuw 1913, nr. 8, p. 226 e.v.).

And then made an effort to reorganize the existing name components in a logical manner, in compliance with the Dutch Roots naming conventions.

+1 vote

Second and related name torture - this time double Jans, pre 1500....


by Connie Graham G2G6 Mach 1 (12.1k points)

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