Are they the same man? [closed]

Question

PM Amanda and I have been working this problem in another thread, which got a bit jumbled with other issues.  We are trying to establish whether John Samuel Savage (link) was the son of Braxton Savage.  Braxton had a son named Samuel, who appears in these Census records:

"United States Census, 1860", database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZMG-G8S : 13 December 2017), Samuel A Savage in entry for Braxton Savage, 1860.

"United States Census, 1870," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MC3K-KMH : 12 April 2016), Samuel Savage in household of Louisa Savage, Georgia, United States; citing p. 224, family 852, NARA microfilm publication M593 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.); FHL microfilm 545,667.

"United States Census, 1880," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M8GK-QGD : 11 August 2017), Samuel Savage in entry for Mattie Savage, 1880; citing enumeration district ED 98, sheet 66C, NARA microfilm publication T9 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d), roll 0160; FHL microfilm 1,254,160.

There's no profile yet for Samuel, because he might be the same as John Samuel.

We haven't been able to find any records for Samuel after 1880, nor any for John Samuel before 1900.  Both were born about the same year and lived in the same county.  John Samuel's death certificate is ambiguous about his parentage.

What do y'all think - are these the same person, or not?

Answer 1

Unless you have evidence that does not appear on Family Search of another Samuel Savage or another John Savage in Newton County Georgia in this period, I would say that these are the same person.  I'd give it about a 95% confidence level.

While there are date variations on the census and death certificate, they are all within the usual margin of error for census and people's memories.

The loss of the 1890 census fits the break perfectly.  

Its not uncommon for families to switch around the names used especially later in life once someone else dies.

I would note the minor differences in a research note on the profile.

Comments

Thanks, Mary!  I only give it about a 60% confidence level.  But I've been working it hard for a couple of days now, and I'm probably not as objective as I should be.    Hence the question.

Answer 2

First name(s) John S

Last name Savage

Relationship Self

Marital status Married

Gender Male

Age 50

Birth year 1860

Birth place Georgia, United States

Race White

Spouse's first name(s) Julia

Spouse's last name Savage

Spouse's birth place Georgia

Father's first name(s) -

Father's last name -

Father's birth place Georgia

Mother's first name(s) -

Mother's last name -

Mother's birth place Georgia

City/township -

County Newton

State Georgia

Record set Us Census 1910

Category Census, land & surveys

Subcategory Census

Collections from Americas, United States

Findmypast 

Comments

Well done, Amanda!  Estate of Braxton Savage, 20 years after he died.  For those without Ancestry access, it's Georgia Property Tax Digests for Newton County 1882-1887.  It shows the Estate owning 54 acres of land in Rocky Plains, valued at $270 and household items at $25, followed by Robert Savage owning $27 worth of livestock, and JS Savage with no property.  The two living men were each assessed $1 poll tax.  (The records extend to the next image.  Thank goodness for line numbers!)

I was looking for probate records closer to his death, but maybe the estate didn't settle until after Louisa died?  That's quite a clue.

---

Here is another one, from 1877-1881, showing Robert (line 39), Franklin M (line 41) and Louiza (line 42).  It shows Louisa holding 84 acres.  JS is not listed, probably because he was too young to vote.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1729/40881_1020705384_0345-00089?pid=5971410&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DFlM483%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Dgeorgia1890proptaxdigests%26gsln%3Dsavage%26gsln_x%3DNN%26_82004260%3D2168%26_82004260__ftp%3Dnewton,%2520georgia,%2520usa%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26redir%3Dfalse%26uidh%3Djn6%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D36%26fh%3D4%26h%3D5971410%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D5&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=FlM483&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

And another, also 1877-1881, listing Savage Estate (line 15) with 87 acres, Samuel (line 16), and Robert (line 17).  The individual pages are not dated, so we'll have to scan backwards through the images to find the first page for the year to get the dates.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1729/40881_1020705384_0345-00853?pid=5986630&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DFlM483%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Dgeorgia1890proptaxdigests%26gsln%3Dsavage%26gsln_x%3DNN%26_82004260%3D2168%26_82004260__ftp%3Dnewton,%2520georgia,%2520usa%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26redir%3Dfalse%26uidh%3Djn6%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D36%26fh%3D5%26h%3D5986630%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D6&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=FlM483&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

---

I think we can say now that John samuel is the son of Braxton  and not Braxton

---

Braxton  going back to my original post  - was infact a POW and died at Davids Island ,  This is documented several places

---

I agree.  The tax records associate John Samuel with Braxton and Louisa in Rocky Plains, and support connecting the 1900-1920 records to the earlier ones when Samuel still lived with his birth family.  Great find!

---

Whew that was quite the tangle Thank You so m much for all of your help !!

---

Yes, you and I agreed a few days ago that Braxton from Newton County died at David's Island in 1863.  That's all documented on his profile. 

---

I can start filling in the trees further now that i have that part sorted and can properly link the right people a task for later this afternoon maybe lol

---

You're welcome!  I went ahead and connected John Samuel to his parents Braxton and Louisa, and added the 1860, '70, and '80 census records.

---

Thanks Ya :)