possible Ancestry ThruLines (DNA) mis-match on Martha(2) Strickland

+1 vote
398 views

What else might I need to report to ensure a correct interpretation and representation of the autosomal findings, if anything?

Another daughter that Wright Strickland had is in evidence by the below shown records, as well as confirmation by DNA matching with several of the above siblings as half-aunts (or uncle) for a third great-grandson of the below daughter:

  1. Martha Strickland2 (ca. 1837-1912)[5], m. 30 Oct 1855 Nathan Snipes (ca. 1827-1906)[6]

ThruLines(TM Ancestry - Beta release) 'suggests that you may be related to 16 DNA matches through Wright "Right" "Wrightman" Strickland' (1800-1868, reporting out as 4th gr-grandfather of Fann (FF) - Generation One for the purposes of this illustration). 
Generation Two:

His son, Mahartney (Hartney) Strickland: Half 4th great-uncle of FF (6 DNA Matches)

His daughter, Elizabeth Bettie Strickland: Half 4th great-aunt of FF (2 DNA Matches)

His daughter, Martha Strickland2: 3rd gr-grandmother of FF (8 DNA Matches)

[Note that the half-aunt/uncle matching reports (with the cousins appropriately downstream among the living DNA donors) may just be an artifact of my not having entered Lucinda Chamblee as the mother of Martha; nevertheless, I also did not enter data at Ancestry on Elizabeth Bettie Strickland and Mahartney, either.]

Also note that the "legitimate" daughter named Martha has a different spouse, etc., even though she isn't built out on WikiTree, in FamilySearch. Her birthdate precisely matches the reported 1860 census where she is present. And the death record, among other records for the different Martha who is in my line (the only child for Wright that has been entered, yet, on WikiTree) matches precisely. 

WikiTree profile: Martha Snipes
in Genealogy Help by Fann Fann G2G6 Mach 3 (37.9k points)
edited by Fann Fann

3 Answers

+2 votes
Hi Fann Fann!  I think you need regard the ThruLines information as a hint--a very helpful hint but just a hint.  Then you need to go in search of traditional record-based genealogical evidence to figure out who is who here.  Maybe there is only one Martha Strickland with a first and then a second husband, and two sets of children. You know how some people don't record the other marriage in their family tree because their only interest is documenting their line.

Cheers

Shirlea
by Shirlea Smith G2G6 Pilot (101k points)

This goes a little deeper than a possible 2nd marriage of Martha.

Martha, daughter of Wright Strickland and Lucinda Chamblee:

1825 - parents marry

1827-1887 - brother Mahartney Strickland

1836-1901 - Martha Strickland (LQ5C-X4V)

1838-1892/3 - sister Elizabeth Strickland 

1837-1912 - apparent half-sister Martha Strickland (G9MG-L19) - see below

1841-1863 sister Mary J Strickland

1844-1889 sister Lucinda Chamblee Strickland

(meaningless graphical line, below, sorry - it won't go away)

1851 - married Joel V Evans (1827-1853)

1852 - son James Evans d. 1853

1853 - son John Evans d. 1853

1856 - married Alexander Philip "Sandy" Stallings

1857 - daughter Lucinda W Stallings

1859 - son William Irvin Stallings

1860 - son Alexander Phillip Stallings Jr

1867 - daughter Mary Ann Elizabeth Stallings

1876 - daughter Martha Naomi Stallings


Martha (Strickland) Snipes daughter of Wright Strickland and Unknown

1837-1912 - Martha Strickland (G9MG-L19)

1855 - married Nathan Snipes (1827-1906)

1856 - daughter Ophelia Snipes

1859 - son Elijah Thomas Snipes

1862 - daughter Mary E Snipes

1866 - son Needham Bridgus Snipes

1866 - son James M Snipes

1873 - son Robert E Snipes


In Summary

Martha (Strickland) Snipes, with whom I have biological DNA matches, and whose matches across siblings report as half-aunts (or uncle), and whose father is reported as Wright Strickland:

married in 1855 and had children beginning 1856 through 1873

Martha (Strickland) Evans Stallings is represented as a daughter of both Wright Strickland and Lucinda Chamblee:

married in 1851, widowed and lost children in 1853, remarried in 1856 and had children between 1857 through 1876

Thus, the two Marthas cannot be the same person. In checking the census record: Martha (Strickland) Evans Stallings was estimated age "14" at 1850 census, and her sister Elizabeth was "12" at the same census. Looking for further confirmation: FindAGrave gives precise dates of 23 Oct 1837 - 27 Apr 1901, with a concordant photographic image of the headstone. 

The other Martha ("mine") has confirmed vital dates of 12 Apr 1837 - 04 Jun 1912 by death certificate.

And speaking of Martha's death certificate*: it may be of no small consequence that her parents were listed as unknown. The informant was N B Snipes - more than likely her son, Needham Bridgus - so it is possible that he didn't even know that Wright Strickland was his grandfather.

"North Carolina Deaths, 1906-1930," database with images, FamilySearch: 17 Jul 2017, Martha Snipes, 04 Jun 1912; citing Selma, Johnston, North Carolina, reference 209, State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh; FHL microfilm 1,877,647.

hi again, Fann Fann! Thanks!  you are right -it seems there are two Marthas.

Is there any strong paper-trail evidence that 14 year old Martha daughter of Wright and Lucinda on the 1850 census is actually the other Martha, not yours?  People have been known to jump to conclusions when doing their family tree research.  

Another thing to consider is that the DNA might be showing a close connection because there are actually two connections: Your line might be related to the other Stricklands through more than one ancestor couple.  The two Marthas might be cousins or second cousins, but through more than one line, thus appearing to be sisters DNA-wise, from our current vantage point in time.

I'm not discounting your hypothesis, just looking to rule out other options before accepting it whole-heartedly.

Things i would want to know:  

Where are both Marthas in 1850?

What is the evidence that says that the other Martha is the daughter of Wright Strickland (other than family trees)?

Cheers

Shirlea

I agree: these are very important questions.

Where are both Marthas in 1850?

The earliest recorded evidence of "my Martha" is her marriage in 1855 to Snipes, witnessed by a Benjamin Aycock and solemnized "at David Granthams." Two record images are on the original, hers being the lower one. Basically (as with many North Carolina marriages in this era), parents are not listed on the document, so we only have confirmation that her (presumptive) maiden name was Strickland. The first census in which she shows up is her husband's household, but not until 1880. In this case, her identity follows upon the marriage, as her maiden name is not used to describe her, but the imputed vital dates and name fit with the marriage record. 

The proven daughter of Wright and Lucinda is in his household in 1850.

One place where some evidence might provide clues is the probate document, but it appears to be a probate settlement, with no actual will. It is unknown whether Wright Strickland died intestate. Of note is a line item entry for A. ?. Stallings ($14.00), which is a highly probable match on Martha (proven) Strickland's husband, Alexander "Sandy" Stallings.

What is the evidence that says that the other Martha is the daughter of Wright Strickland (other than family trees)?

See above, re: 1850 census. Several later census records identify her in the household of her second husband. See above, re: mention of her 2nd husband in the probate "settlement document."

In summary: "my Martha" has obscure origins. The good news and the bad news is that Strickland Scene "The Strickland Scene: A Newsletter on the Strickland Family of Nash County, NC" may have some evidence. That's bad news because only one index is available for the volumes, and it is at the halfway point. I have been avoiding searching it, but thanks to your thorough review, the need is clearer than it ever was!  

I have all the issues of Strickland Scene, I subscribed years ago. Nancy Cornell added enumerations, vitals, etc., same as you could get online. I think she mentioned my grandfather at one time.
+3 votes
I'd suggest treating ThruLines with a hefty dose of salt. I talked a cousin down out of the trees after ThruLines "suggested" she was connected to a connection LONG SINCE DISPROVED ... kept telling her she KNEW her ancestry, DNA and all ...
by Susan Smith G2G6 Pilot (206k points)
0 votes
hi again, Fann!

Thanks for the link to the Strickland Scene newsletter.  Volume 7 references marriages for three probably different Wright Stricklands.  

http://www.ncgenweb-data.com/nash/ss/StricklandScene_07_04.pdf

see 'page 65' which is about the 6th page of this document

I say probably different, because they are in different counties, Wake, Nash and Johnston.  This is not familiar geography for me, so i don't know if there was any amalgamation or renaming of counties.

Wright and Lucinda are one of the couples, marrying in 1825.  So there could be quite a few more older children than appear on the 1850 census.

Another couple is Wright Strickland and Margy A Ferrell in Nash County in 1855.  This is too late to be your Martha's parents.  However, just by timing, it is possible that this Wright Strickland could be the son of Wright and Lucinda.  He is probably not Lucinda's husband Wright, because she is still alive on the 1860 Census.

The third couple is Wright Strickland and Susan Tailor, marrying in 1836 in Johnston County.  

I think the main thing is regard the Ancestry ThruLines as useful hints.  The machine there has probably picked on Wright as a possible father for your Martha because there is a known father-daughter pair with the names Wright and Martha .  But the DNA at that distance is not able to precisely define the cousinship.  See the chart here:  https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

The more generations that go by, the wider the range of possibilities.

That is why the WikiTree template statements on DNA confirmation can only use Ancestry-type matches up to third cousin.  After that, triangulation using actual segments inherited by descendants in more than one line is required.

Just as an aside, I have a distant cousin with a well-documented line through her mother, to a common ancestor.  When i saw that we were also DNA matches, i assumed that the link was through this line. So did Ancestry, and gave us one of those Shared Ancestor leaves.  After her parents tested, however, it turned out that the connection was through her father.  We are still related through her mother, but that is not where the shared DNA comes from.  We are back to the drawing board on that one.  It might be the same with your other Stricklands.  We don't know for sure without more research.  Ancestry is not a lot of help there -- need a chromosome browser.

I think what i am trying to say is that there is obviously a relationship, but it might not be as Ancestry is hinting.  It might be that the two Marthas are cousins.  Or the connection might come from another intermarriage between families.

Something that might be useful is to check census records to see what they say regarding race for the different branches of the Strickland and Snipes family.

Cheers

Shirlea
by Shirlea Smith G2G6 Pilot (101k points)
I would check newspaper.com for a marriage  announcement etc for that area.  Might find additional info on the marriage.

Thanks, I found two "Strickland Scene" references to Wright, neither of which were dispositive of his possible relationship to a mother of his children other than Lucinda.

I was doubling back on the census data, and did find this record, which COULD be suggestive of a non-marital relationship with a Polly Strickland b. c. 1818. I will see if I can burn a trail to any of the other household members. (Note also that an 1850 census record captures Wright in his own household.)

Thanks for the reminder about Strickland Scene. It can be of use, but sadly it is not indexed or readily searchable; and, much of it, with a few exceptions, amounts to family tree reporting. It might be able to generate leads in that regard.
 

Polly Strickland
Female
32
North Carolina
Female
13
North Carolina
Female
10
North Carolina
Male
6
North Carolina
Male
2
North Carolina

"United States Census, 1850," database with images, FamilySearch: 12 Apr 2016, Polly Strickland, Sampson county, Sampson, North Carolina, United States; citing family 789, NARA microfilm publication M432 (Washington, DC: National Archives and Records Administration).

See the above reply. I don't think an extramarital relationship would be recorded. I have the marriage records of the two Marthas.

Now I have a lead on "my Martha's" mother: Polly Strickland, b. c. 1818, and residing in Sampson, NC, with no husband and the apparent children listed in the above reply. (No guarantees that Wright is the correct father, just yet.)
Hi Fann!

Looks like a good lead.  I noticed that there are a Strickland households on either side of Polly's family on the census.  I wonder if Edith and David are Polly's siblings.  I wonder who is living on that farm 10 years later?  I wonder if there are any land transaction records related to that farm?  I haven't looked for any of that yet, but i tried to locate Martha's brother Nathan on subsequent census returns.  Do you have any DNA matches with descendants of Nathan Strickland and Mahalia Evans?  Mahalia was black and from the time of their marriage, Nathan and their children are recorded as black so i don't know if it is the same Nathan Strickland.  His family trees give birth dates from 1838 to 1843, but 1843 seems most credible and would align with the Nathan who is Polly's child.

Cheers

Shirlea

I've been meaning to write back about the neighbors. Here's the summary:

Of note, in the 1850 census, Polly is a possible single mother (no spouse present), with several children. Next door is David and Sally Strickland on one side: David Strickland in household of David Strickland, "United States Census, 1850" And on the other side: Edith Strickland (possible married name?, but Edith is also a possible single mother, with no spouse present): Edith Strickland, "United States Census, 1850" Thus far, none of these neighbors have profiles attached to the 1850 indexing, so it's catch as catch can.

Could I help anyone on this? Wright is my direct-line 3 gg. My mother, my father, my grandfather and myself worked on this line for over 60 yrs (I am now older). I have much documented information (there are quite a few other  Wright Stricklands living in the same area) & Lucinda Chamblee. There are some bible records which are in the family.

Wright Strickland did not die intestate. If you need the will, let me know. THere were many court records, property battles in court, court minutes, land, etc. etc. Wright Strickland gave a deed of gift of a slave to Martha Strickland. I have the original of that and giving it to the NC Archives this year before it evaporates.

In order to straighten out all the Stricklands you have to figure them out in the four-corner county area of NC where they lived: Johnston, Nash, Franklin, Wake. Thus, I have a huge database based on records if it possibly can help.

I have only skimmed the contents here so I'll have to go back and read deeply to understand the angle. My sister is the DNA expert, not me.

Chamblee.Genealogy@gmail.com
Thanks!

The most important question to resolve is whether the Wright Strickland who married Lucinda had two daughters named Martha, one legitimate and another, illegitimate by Polly Strickland.

Put another way, we have solid proof that a Polly Strickland (b.c. 1818) had a daughter Martha

This Martha's (b.c.1837, m. Nathan Snipes 1855, d. 1912) siblings living in a single parent household in 1850 with Polly were:

Sarah, 10

Nathan, 6 and

John, 2

Thanks again for any insights you may be able to provide.

I just looked in my records, I have this:

Nathan Snipes b. May 5, 1830 Wayne Co NC d. Oct 30 1855, Wayne Co Nc
m. Martha J. "Mazany" Strickland dau of John Strickland and Charlotte "Lottie"_______. This Martha b. April 12 1837,d. June 4, 1912, Selma, Johnston Co NC. Also have Mary Ann Pearce as a wife of Snipes, she b. Feb 18, 1826-Nov 1

1850 Neuse (north side), Wayne, North Carolina
Jno Strickland             44 carpenter b NC
Charlotte Strickland 43
Mazany Stricker 18 1832
Gideon Stricker 9
Marinda Stricker 7
Temethy Stricker 5
Noah Stricker         2

This Martha marr Nathan Snipes.

This Martha was raised in Wayne County, marr 1855, died 1912. This you probably know.

Wright Strickland Martha marr Joel Evans 1851 and Sandy Stallings 1856. Stallings marr prev to Frances Ann Aycock. Martha died 1901, Franklin. This you know.

Wright son of Braswell Strickland. I own the photostat of the bible from 1930. 

Because of the many Wright Stricklands in the area I had to carefully prove and reprove with land records, etc. Here are a few items on the Wright Strickland trail:

1825, marr in Wake Co NC to Lucinda (marriages normally performed in county of bride back then). Important to understand that the Chamblees had land on Wake & Johnston Co...straddling the county line. 

1830 Wright Strickland in Franklin Co NC. Wright was a slaveholder--important key in sorting enumerations.
1830-estate sale of Cade Bunn in Wake Co (Bunn land near Chamblee land)
1833 purchased land Snipes Creek, Jared Chamblee Lucnda's father had land here.
1840 Johnston Co (2 Wright Stricklands enumerated), Wright is the one with slaves
1844 Jo Co Sold some land on Snipes Creek
1850 Jo Co enumeration
1856 Chamblees vs. Wright Strickland case, case over slave division of Elizabeth Chamblee (wife of Jarred)
1860 Nash co enumeration  in Collins TS
1866 Will written Nash Co
1868 will probated, estate file continued with various adm items
1868,Sept 7 Wright d. per great uncle's bible
1878 Petition to divide land among heirs, Martha Stallings included
Note: Wright Strickland & Margy Ferrell are in deed books as well.
1880 & 1900, Martha Strickland (Stallings) living with Naomi Stallings, 4 yrs. My mother and my grandfather talked about these people. Naomi died 1952. 

There are two sets of first cousins who married each other in my Strickland line.

The Martha who married Snipes lived in Wayne County, far from the fields of this line. Wright Strickland did not have two daughters named Martha.

<<Put another way, we have solid proof that a Polly Strickland (b.c. 1818) had a daughter Martha >>
What is that solid proof?



 


 

Thanks so much for the information.

I have moved the question from Wright Strickland's page to Martha (Strickland) Snipes' page, since it appears that we have clearly ruled Wright Strickland out as Martha (Strickland) Snipes' father (thanks again for that - so very much).

First, the evidence on Martha (Strickland) Snipes being a daughter of (single mother? widowed?) Polly (Polly as a census-taker's misinterpretation of Lottie?):

The first evidence of Martha that we find is a highly probable 1850 match in a Sampson, North Carolina household:
"United States Census, 1850," FamilySearch: Martha Strickland in household of Polly Strickland, Sampson County, Sampson, NC, US; citing family 789, NARA microfilm publication M432. 

[New data: Onomastic-wise, it is interesting to note that if this is Charlotte "Lottie," perhaps widowed, she does also have a son named John. . .]

Now, I am hopeful that you might have something more on the John Strickland and Charlotte "Lottie" (Unknown) Strickland who were Martha (Strickland) Snipes' parents (birth or any other vital dates?).

Meanwhile, I went ahead and updated Martha Snipes'  profile John and Charlotte "Lottie" are the possible parents, but we also have to determine whether the Polly household is a correct conflation with "Lottie," perhaps, or worst case: the wrong Martha. . .

Thanks again for all of your work. I am surprised that Wright Strickland's profile was previously an "orphaned" profile here on WikiTree. Right now, I am no longer connected to that line by blood or marriage, so if you or someone in your family who uses WikiTree wants to be added to the Trusted List or take over as profile manager, please just let me know. 

Kind regards,

Fann Fann

By the way, I saw your wiki main page (nice on the documentation, I see you found my Braswell Strickland bible and the stuff I put on FS). These lines are hard because of first cousins marrying each other twice.

<<It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Wright by comparing test results with other carriers of his ancestors' Y-chromosome or mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known yDNA or mtDNA test-takers in his direct paternal or maternal line. >>

Actually my uncle 1919-2009 tested  y-DNA with FamilyTreeDNA years ago for the large Strickland DNA project. He is the grandson of Martha Strickland, 1st cousin twice removed of Wright.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Strickland?iframe=ycolorized
Not sure what # he is on the list. If you are interested I'll find out.


 

Thanks again, so very much.

For the Charlotte "Lottie" question, I found her but she wasn't connected to the main Strickland line. I used FamilySearch pedigree data (actual sources for many among the Stricklands* are paltry). If you can take a look, I would appreciate any feedback, disconnections or other corrections or guidance if you have them. (Maybe we can team up to place sources with the correctly matched pedigrees on FamilySearch - I get the feeling that some of the family constellations are dubious, at best, and not just because sources are lacking.)

So we are left with two questions [setting aside the myth origin on Wright being a father of Martha (Strickland) Snipes]:

  1. Where do Polly Strickland and her three children fit - from that 1850 census reference - (i.e., are we especially sure - for my line - that it was not Polly's daughter Martha Strickland married Nathan Snipes)?
  2. Is it a certainty that Charlotte "Lottie" (Strickland) married John Strickland and they had Martha (Strickland) Snipes? (Consequently, can be place him in the Strickland line?)

Getting back to the Wright Strickland as father of Martha Strickland now-debunked myth, I think that I went down that path from an errant Hint on Ancestry, and the myth got further compounded because of the ThruLines matching results that are describe in the early days of this post.

I got your direct message, and I will be reviewing that in detail.

Thanks again, as it is quite useful to have the expertise of someone truly vested in finding out the truth and placing the sources correctly. The longer I have worked on WikiTree, the more I have become invested in the daisy chain source based narrative writing technique. Prior to having found Polly Strickland with a daughter Martha in the age range of Martha (Strickland) Snipes, I had nothing on her origins, but now it looks like Polly likely could be a false-positive match on her origins . . .

Kind regards,

Fann Fann

* I did locate a probate document on Samuel Strickland Sr, who married Margaret Peggy (Stanley) - at least I think it's his, as the best evidence without the context of the will - is the timing of his apparent death. If I am correct in my calculation, his daughter Charlotte might be the mother of Martha (Strickland) Snipes. Part of what I added to Samuel Sr's profile, in the wee hours:
: Though he died about 1859, his probate was not finalized until 1861. ("North Carolina Estate Files, 1663-1979," FamilySearch: Samuel Strickland, 1861; citing Johnston County, North Carolina, United States, State Archives, Raleigh; FHL microfilm 2,316,335.)

Here is the 1850 Norther Dist  of Sampson Co where that Polly and Martha Strickland lived you mentioned. Notice the Strickland families living next door to her--relatives. They all disappear by 1860...to another county, where? You find the relatives you will know about this Polly and family.

1850 Northern District, Sampson, NC
46-46 (July 31)
Daniel M Culbreth 29 farmer $2000 RE NC
Jennet Culbreth 29
John Culbreth 8
William Culbreth 6
Daniel Culbreth 3
Rebecca Culbreth 0
Jane Strickland 22 b. NC
189-189 (Aug 14)
Matthew Strickland 24 laborer NC cannot read/write
Cherry Strickland 21 cannot read/write
Elsey Strickland 1 f.
218-218 (Aug 15)
David Strickland 28 23 Nov 1821-29 Jan 1903 cannot read/write
Piercy Strickland 28 Pearcy Green cannot read/write
Morris Strickland 8
John Strickland 6
Apsilly Strickland 4
Wm G Strickland 3
George Strickland 9/12
224-224 (Aug 16)
Jacob Strickland 46 farmer $400 cannot read/write
Jenny 42 cannot read/write
Martin 21
Jennet 15
Walter 13
Mary 10
Sally 8
Fanny 5
Moley 2 f.
225-225 (Aug 16)
Nathan Strickland  58 chairmaker  $50 R.E. NC
Nancy Strickland 56 cannot read/write
Nathan Strickland 22 chairmaker cannot read/write
Hilery Strickland 19 m. none
Reuben Strickland 16 none
Isaac Strickland 12 attended school
242-242 (Aug 17)
Elbert Strickland 54 laborer  NC cannot read/write
Ivy Strickland 56 cannot read/write
Ivy Strickland 15
251-251 (Aug 19)
Wm Strickland 39 farmer /3000 NC
Rachel Strickland 45
Kesey Strickland 14
Telitha Strickland 12
John Strickland 11
Rachel Strickland 9
Thomas Strickland 8
Patience Strickland 5
Olin D Strickland 2
Reddick Jackson 19 farmer NC
262-262 (Aug 19)
John A Strickland    33 farmer $300 NC;  17 Oct 1816-17 Jul 1880, m. Nancy Jackson
Elizabeth Strickland 70 b. 1780 cannot read/write (prob mother)
Elizabeth Strickland 25 b. 1825 cannot read/write
John Strickland        12
359-359 (Aug 26)
John Strickland 50 farmer $100 RE
Lilly Strickland 28 cannot read/write
John Strickland 21 laborer, cannot read/write
Haywood Strickland 6
Mary Strickland 4
Lilly Strickland 2
Sally Strickland 2/12
408-408 (Aug 29)
James Wrench 53 farmer $1500 RE cannot read/write
Tilitha Wrench 53 cannot read/write
Joseph Wrench 32 $350
John Wrench 14 cannot read/write
James Wrench 12 cannot read/write
Thomas Wrench 9
Fanny Strickland 45 b. NC
437-437 (Sept 3)
Wm Strickland 35 laborer  cannot read/write
Martha Strickland 22
William Strickland 10
Anna Strickland 8
Mary Strickland 6
John Strickland 4
Rhoda Strickland 0
493-493 (Sept 9)
John Strickland 29 farmer /150 NC cannot read/write
Jennet 37 NC cannot read/write
Kizzy 5 NC
495-495 (Sept 9)
Olin Strickland 27
Mariah Strickland 21
Eliza Strickland 3/12
513-513 (Sept 9)
Wm Strickland 29 farmer  /300 (alone)
516-516 (Sept 10)
Isaac Strickland 62 1788,  farmer $575 NC
Nancy Strickland 49
Elvy Strickland 24
Allen Strickland 20
Bedus Strickland 19 attended school
Jane Strickland 17 attended school
Penelope Strickland 14 attended school
Edney Strickland 12 attended school
Nancy Strickland 10 attended school
Jennetta Strickland 7
Isaac Strickland 4
556-556 (Sept 12)
Isaac Strickland 32 farmer $200
Elizabeth Strickland 32 cannot read/write
Sally Strickland 13
Elizabeth Strickland 11
Isaac Strickland 9
Nicey Strickland 7
Ritty Strickland 5
Mary Strickland 3
568-568 (Sept 13)
Burwell Dawson 50 farmer $1775 RE b. NC
Edith Dawson 49
Joseph Dawson 25 farmer
Folsom Dawson 22 farmer
Edith Dawson 17
David Dawson 16 farmer
Martha Dawson 14
Burwell Dawson 12
William Dawson 11
Zilpha J Dawson 9
Jeraldus Dawson 8
Rachel Strickland 25 $100 RE b. NC
572-572 (Sept 13)
Sampson Strickland 27 farmer $400 NC
Edney Strickland 37, (enumerator issue) apparently "Linnie" and father Henry Jackson b. 10 June 1820-14 April 1914
Hiram Strickland 2
Lewis Strickland 8/12
Andrew Jackson 15
578-578 (Sept 16)
Wm Strickland 49 cooper NC
Anna Strickland 37 cannot read/write
Robert Strickland 14
William Strickland 12
Kizzey Strickland 10
Edwin Strickland 7
John Strickland 4
Sally Strickland 2
Sampson Strickland 3/12
580-580 (Sept 16)
Edwin Strickland 33 laborer /100
Delila 23 cannot read/write
John 12
William 10
Mary 7
Offey 5 m.
Penelope 5
Barbrey Strickland 4 f.
Elizabeth 35 f.
593-593 (Sept 7)
John Strickland 29 farmer  $150 NC cannot read/write
Jennet Strickland 37 cannot read/write NC
Kizzy Strickland 5
595-595 (Sept 7)
Olin Strickland 27 farmer $300 NC cannot read/write
Mariah 21 f.
Eliza 3/12
715-715 (Sept 26)
Moore Strickland 36 farmer           NC died Palsey Jan 1860 [recds indicate he married a Polly]
Joanna Strickland 49                  b. NC [remarriage or relative]
Benjamin Strickland 16 student b. NC
Aaron Strickland 13                    b. GA
Ann Burnett 47 fm. b. NC cannot read/write
788-788 (Oct 9)
Edith Strickland  36 f 1814 b. NC cannot read/write
Rufus                  11
Scintha                 7 f.
Edward                 2
789-789 (Oct 9)
Polly Strickland      32 1818 North Carolina cannot read/write
Martha Strickland   3 1838
Sarah Strickland    10 1840
Nathan Strickland  6 
John Strickland     2 

790-790 (Oct 9)
David Strickland 45 farmer 1805 /1000 NC [this family must have moved away bef next enumeration]
Sally                    32, 1818,  NC cannot read/write
William    14
Susan       12 1838
Mary          7
David        4 1846
Jenkins  2 m 1848
809-809 (Oct 4)
Susan W Strickland 40 NC cannot read/write
Charity Strickland 13
Susan Strickland 10
Fanny Strickland 8
823-823 (Oct 7)
Gabriel Hobbs 54, farmer $10,000 (very wealthy man) b. NC
Nancy Hobbs 58
Laura A Strickland 25
Hardy Mainer 6
William Mainer 12
Priscilla Mainer 5
Henry Mainer 4
Elenor Mainer 3
Jane Mainer 14
Ann Mainer 1
869-869 (Oct 9)
Isabella Strickland 49 $1500 R.E. "insane" b. NC
Mary Strickland 20 attended school
Sarah Strickland 15 attended school

RE: Samuel Strickland/ Martha (Peggy) Stanley

In 1999 someone sent me email about this family, their list (this was before digitization and all flew around the country and spent lots of money on hotels <g> My only interest was to separate Henry Wright Strickland, from the other Wright Stricklands. The Charlotte wo m. John Strickland of Wayne Co NC b. ca 1807 (and we must be a little generous with enumerations knowing who reported--children, neighbors, etc). Not sure if it's a match. Back in the day I had several people email me about Samuel Strickland but none talked about the daughter Charlotte.

Children of Samuel Strickland  (b. Apr. 4, 1779) and Peggy Margaret Stanley
1.  John August 27, l801
2.  Thena Ann October 2, 1802 marr John Blackman June 3, 1855, Johnston Co NC
*3.  Jesse Kinnon March 21, 1804, d. 1887
4.  Hester October 6, 1805
5.  Martha May 21, 1807
6.  Washington February 7, 1809
7.  Samuel July 1, 1810
8.  Wilson June 1, l810
9.  Lottie May 24, 1813
10.  Rebecca June 15, 1814 marr William Stanley
11.  Henry Right-- . July 31, 1815 (marr Elizaeth Baker 9/24/1842, Johnston C0)
12.  Bennett Bright October 1, 1818 marr Cariline Allen Apr 8 1842, Johnston Co
13.  Nancy ?
14.  Caroline ?
15. Patsy marr John Dougherty May 12, 1848

<<If you can take a look, I would appreciate any feedback, disconnections or other corrections or guidance if you have them.>>Have a link?
<<Is it a certainty that Charlotte "Lottie" (Strickland)

married John Strickland and they had Martha (Strickland) Snipes? (Consequently, can be place him in the Strickland line?)>>
WHICH Strickland line. All those hundreds of Stricklands in Nash, Johnston, Franklin, Wake and other counties are a big mess...it's hard to connect them correctly. They probably all go back to the same earlier settlers who came into the area. Their DNA is probably an interesting mess of cousins marrying cousins which  have found in these lines, esp my own as I mentioned previously. I think you have to be careful.

So, if you have yDNA why don't you go look at the Strickland DNA project? I sent you the link above. 

Thinking that my grandfather spent much time with his grandmother, Martha Strickland, and it's because he did so and recorded names and dates (before the NC Archives was going strong for patrons) that really helps.

 

Let me apologize that I am a slow learner, I don't do Ancestry DNA (maybe I should), but you said this:
 

Another daughter that Wright Strickland had is in evidence by the below shown records, as well as confirmation by DNA matching with several of the above siblings as half-aunts (or uncle) for a third great-grandson of the below daughter:

  1. Martha Strickland2 (ca. 1837-1912)[5], m. 30 Oct 1855 Nathan Snipes (ca. 1827-1906)[6]
You are saying that the Martha Striclkand/Nathan Snipes is close enough to you?  So half aunts and third great grandson of the Martha who marr Nathan Snipes. Correct?  I've heard of "thrulines" but listened to Blaine Bettinger to learn about it. I have a few of his DNA books (although I am not an expert at all). Why don't you hire him? It would be worth $200 to figure out where to look. Or Diahan Southard (love her)

Bettinger said that the thrulines depend on tree information (which you know, I do not) but the trees our there are really flawed. On my Chamblee side I would say 99% of the trees are in error, largely because they clone other trees or don't understand how the info fits). I think the Strickland trees are the same so good for you for doing your own Strickland research.

I think someone said about and Bettinger that the thrulines are hypotheses not foregone conclusions so caveat emptor, eh? Genealogy is always interesting.

There are some interesting tidbits in the enumeration. Thanks for pulling that together. Much easier to look for patterns than scanning through pop-up FamilySearch windows!

Though we all know that FindAGrave is rarely a bona fide source - just a lead or for corroboration (especially if in stone) - birth data they have correlates much more closely with the 1850 census data on Polly Strickland's daughter Martha than with the alternate posited parents of John Strickland and Charlotte (Unknown). 

Generally, the census on John and Charlotte doesn't support the leap from an 1850 census to an 1855 marriage that could make them Martha Snipes parents. By contrast,  the daughter of Polly Strickland origins (Martha), has birth data  that correlates best with both pre-marital and subsequent census years, as well as with FindAGrave birth data. 

I think it is worth noting two onomastic angles: Martha not only had at least one grandchild called "Polly" Etta, but also no as yet known Charlotte daughters or granddaughters nor John sons or grandsons.

Martha Strickland Snipes - FindAGrave

Birth 12 Apr 1837, Wayne County, North Carolina
Death 4 Jun 1912 (aged 75), Selma, Johnston County, North Carolina
Martha (Strickland) Snipes - assuming Polly Strickland maternityCensus reported or estimated birth year by census year/marriage, age
1850
  • 1837, 13 
1855
  • marriage (unreported, but presumptively, 18)
1860
  • 1838, 22
1870
  • (1835-1836), 34
1880
  • 1836, 44
1900
  • Apr 1836, 64
1910
  • 1837, 73

Martha Mazany Strickland

1850 - 1832, 18

Unfortunately, 1850 was the only census year yet located where this presumptive Martha, named Mazany Stricken in the report, is found. We all agree that Martha (Strickland) Snipes, daughter of Polly is a different person - different mothers/heads of household. Note: this John Strickland isn't in the 1850 household.

An 1860 census includes Mazany's mother, Charlotte, John, but no Mazany, and only one daughter, Marenda, too young and clearly a different daughter, since she's also in the 1850 report (as Marinda). 

No surprise that Mazany might have married soon after turning 18 (c. 1850), we just do not have any appreciable evidence that she married Nathan Snipes, when the Martha, daughter of Polly, seems to be demonstrably the aging person who fits much better in the timeline in relationship to Nathan Snipes, especially as compared to Mazany, who would have been 28 in the 1860 census year.

Alas, we still do not know to any degree of certainty who the father of Martha (Snipes) Strickland was: the ThruLines data was all that I had, that suggested Wright Strickland, and I am not even sure that I recorded the cM levels of matching among the contributing cousins (maybe it's in the long chain of conversation, above?). The beta period where nonsubscribers could access ThruLines seems to be complete. 

If someone in your line of descent has done AncestryDNA, then that could readily determine a degree of relatedness - I have the GEDmatch Z373931 that can be used to test # of cMs shared - definitely better than relying on correlating through cousins - it might even be possible to use what I have from the Strickland link that you provided, I will have to see about that.

Thanks.

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