Why ask for my approval?

+6 votes
705 views
I was asked to approve a pre-1500 merge. I have examined it, and notwithstanding some false information on one of the pages, I have approved it, as asked. I still do not understand why someone of my vast experience as a professional genealogist is refused pre-1500 certification.
WikiTree profile: Richard Maitland
asked ago in Policy and Style by Gregory Lauder-Frost G2G3 (3.2k points)
reopened ago by Gregory Lauder-Frost

I understand his frustration.  It didn’t take more than a 2 minute google search and 2 minute check of his contributions to know that he is far more qualified than the vast majority of those who already hold the pre-1500 badge.

Those of you who are so concerned about following proper procedure forget why the pre-1500 certification badge was originally put in place.  Gregory is the type of person we want contributing to wikitree, not someone we want to frustrate to the point he leaves.  I have no doubt he will be a valuable contributor to the pre-1500 team.

PS:  I would also be interested in the reason pre-1500 certification was originally turned down?

Joe, I would certainly hope no one's going to tell us why his certification was turned down.  It's no one's business but his and the pre-1500 team.
All of us working under a single set of standards, rules, and procedures helps to create a cohesive community.  Making exceptions and special concessions for certain people works against that goal.  For a new member to be 'one of us,' he has to share the common experience.  Otherwise, some animals are more equal than others.  And as others have noted, no matter how advanced his genealogical skills, a new member has to learn WikiTree.  I think few people would call that easy.
Gregory, I'm not sure why the request was turned down in June of last year but I've asked the group who reviews the pre-1500 requests to take another look at yours.  

To Joe and others, anyone who has experienced this is always welcome to ask for us to do another review.  We encourage and want people to take whatever steps are asked of them and then be able to certify.   This process was put into place after numerous discussions with the community and we need to follow it for every member regardless of their level of genealogical expertise.  As others have mentioned, it is not just about that but there were other factors that the community decided needed to be included to receive that particular certification.
I must have just popped to the bathroom when the numerous discussions with the community were going on.
Apparently so.

Here you go, RJ. Looks like one of the earlier discussions is here. You participated in that discussion and this one. It was a while ago. :-)

Oh I remember the pre-1000 discussion.  But pre-1000 was a totally different animal.
Looks like it evolved into pre-1500, though.
The way mice evolved into elephants.

5 Answers

+14 votes

Getting pre-1500 accreditation is not easy

See

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Pre-1500_Profiles

Have you left a comment on the profile about what you think is incorrect information, and why?

answered ago by Marion Poole G2G6 Pilot (228k points)
+12 votes
Marion is giving good advice. The group who examines pre-1500 certification requests will essentially look at your work on WikiTree. Posting pertinent new information on pre-1500 profiles, using the comments section, is not only helpful to the community, it also provides examples of your research and would certainly boost your case when you decide to apply for the pre-1500 badge again.

Another thing that is looked at is your knowledge and use of WikiTree's Styles and Standards.

You may find this thread interesting: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/529958/how-to-make-sure-you-get-pre-1500-certified
answered ago by Isabelle Rassinot G2G6 Pilot (235k points)
Good points Isabelle about being familiar with WikiTree's Styles and Standards.

Just because you're a pilot at United for 35 years doesn't mean you show up at British Airways and start flying on day 1.  You will still have to go back to training because there are different practices from one organization to another.  Will the process be faster than someone who doesn't even have a pilot's license?  Surely.  But you still have to check the boxes.  

This would be the same if you're a nurse, a policeman, a bus driver, or a lawyer.  Change states, countries, law firms, you're going to go back to some sort of certification or review for approval.
+14 votes
Please don't feel insulted, it is only a matter of working through the appropriate steps, as irritating as that may seem. Bear in mind there are thousands of people who use Wikitree with a very broad range of skills, some of whom need to learn some rudamentary computer abilities, others how to source their work properly. Often people will lack a flair for gentle communication (raising my hand!). But the "testing" helps the community in avoiding problems with members who have not yet shown they are able to do high-quality work. The system evolved over time to solve a problem with early-date profiles that lacked any sources and valid proofs. So even with your amazing background, you'll need to follow through with a small demonstration of your skills, which should be very easy for you. As frustrating as it may seem, please do so as we will all benefit greatly from your expertise and you'll make a wonderful resource for our community.
answered ago by Bobbie Hall G2G6 Mach 8 (86.2k points)
Very well said, Bobbie!
+4 votes
WikiTree's obsession with courtesy doesn't cover adding insult to injury then.
answered ago by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (433k points)
Ellen, was my answer uncourteous ? If so, I am sorry, it was really unintentional and should be chalked up to the langage barrier. I was really trying to help.
I'm not trying to answer for Ellen, but I do want to chime in and say, "No." Your answer was really informative, Isabelle! Thanks!
Isabelle had no role in the discourtesy. There was no way for RJ to insert his remark where it would be apparent what he was referring to.
Clearly, since nobody gets it, it's the English and Americans who have major cultural differences.

... insert his remark where it would be apparent what he was referring to.

While not a perfect fix, copying the text and adding bold & italics followed with your reply goes a long way in helping others to understand which comment you're referring to - especially in long threads.

copying the text and adding bold & italics followed with your reply goes a long way in helping others to understand which comment you're referring to - especially in long threads.

.

Or you could use the quote "function".  (It still requires a copy and paste, which I understand some cannot do on G2G.) 

Didn't know we had that! Thanks for the info .
It wouldn't always be a good idea to repeat an offending remark. In this instance, what would have been best would have been for RJ to send a private message suggesting that the other person edit or hide what they said...
Then, Ellen, following your reasoning, shouldn't you have private messaged RJ suggesting such?  And perhaps I should've PM'd you. Now I will end my ridiculousness. :)
I think RJ knows what he's doing...
+2 votes
I don't know why you have been refused pre-1500 certification - that is a question for others elsewhere. I hope you get the help you need to answer your questions and progress to this if possible.

However, the more pertinent issue for me is why is someone without the certification is a Profile Manager for a pre-1500 profile. This is a legacy issue because the profile was created before the present policy was brought in.

You can't do everything a Profile Manager is asked to do if you don't have the certification. Therefore I would encourage:

1. If you are a PM without certification, please consider removing yourself from that profile, particularly if the profile has multiple PMs.

2. Can the display be changed so certified PMs are highlighted as such on the profile (e.g. in a different colour?)

3. Can someone compile a list of pre-1500 profiles without any certified PMs so other pre 1500 editors can help with these?
answered ago by Andrew Turvey G2G6 Mach 2 (20.6k points)

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