Should all notable categories be removed?

Question

Should {{Notables Sticker}} replace all other notables categories or should only [[Category:Notables Project]]  + {{Notables}} be removed, for example [[Category:Hungarian Notables]]?

Bonus question, I've seen posts about how Unconnected categories should not be used either. What was the verdict, never use [[Category:Unconnected Profiles]] (started using it cause i found it in the drop down menu, so it should be removed from there if you do not want people using it).

Comments

I see EditBot has been replacing category: Unconnected Notables of the United States of America with Category: United States, Unconnected Profiles and similar.

Answer 1

Any instance of [[Category:Notables]] should be removed. If either {{Notables}} or {{Notables Sticker}} (with or without a parameter, like {{Notables Sticker|Hungarian Notables}}), then it's just redundant. If the profile doesn't have either {{Notables}} or {{Notables Sticker}}, then replace [[Category:Notables Project]] with {{Notables}} if the Notables Project is set to be Profile Manager, and {{Notables Sticker}} if it isn't.

In any case, please add a parameter to move that profile out of the main Notables category, even though there probably isn't such a parameter now:

• For living notables, please use {{Notables|Living Notables}} or {{Notables Sticker|Living Notables}}
• For deceased notables from a country where the notables hierarchy hasn't been developed yet, please use {{Notables|Countryname, Notables}} or {{Notables Sticker|Countryname, Notables}}
  • Note: The categories are being reworked, so for now countries, this will often be different, like Countryname Notables or Countrarian Notables or Notable Countrarians or Famous Countrarians or some other variation, but the final format will be Countryname, Notables, so use that if it exists, and if no version exists for that country yet, create it in that format.
• For some countries, there is already a hierarchy of notables from that country, dividing people up by county/land/province/state/territory, or by field of endeavour, or both. You can drill down as fas as you want to go. Ideally, take each notable to the lowest level that applies, but personally, I'd be thrilled just to see the main notables category cleared of profiles, even if people are only moved to Living Notables and the various country categories!

If somebody qualifies for more than one notables category, use the parameter on {{Notables}} or {{Notables Sticker}} to place them in one category, and then use [[Category:Whatever]] to place them in any others which apply.  (James L. Kraft is an example of this.)

As far as I know, the Unconnected categories are still going away, although the process is taking longer than I expected. I wouldn't add one anymore, but I believe that EditBot will be removing them eventually, so I personally wouldn't take up my time removing them, either.

Comments

Awesome answer it really cleared things up for me. So in your example you use Notable Sticker|Place_Profession as ideal. Underscore not comma or does it not matter? Place is birth place, death place or where they were they were most 'active', say an American actor would probably be active in LA or New York. But I think it is more important where they came from?

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To be honest with you, the breakdown of notables within a place kind of developed ad hoc. It seems to me that, for some people, being able to say, "This notable came from where I live" is most important, while others seem to be content to divide up by country first, then by field of endeavour.

In Canada, the system that seems to have worked out is that notables get categorised so you can "drill down" to them either way. So the current structure looks something like this:

• Notable Canadians¹
  • Alberta Notables²
    • Alberta Authors
    • Alberta Entertainers
    • Alberta Scientists
  • British Columbia Notables
    • British Columbia Authors
    • British Columbia Entertainers
    • British Columbia Scientists
  • Canadian Authors
    • Alberta Authors
    • British Columbia Authors

Thus, the bottom level categories each lead up both to the province or territory, and to the field of endeavour, so people looking for notables in a particular field or in a particular place can look either way. 

1. Yes, this will need to be renamed to "Canada, Notables" eventually. 
2. Yes, this will need to be renamed to "Alberta, Notables" eventually, and similarly for the whole hierarchy.

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Personally, I haven't worked on profiles for many actors, so there could well be conventions I'm not aware of. It seems to me that the place of birth has to be there. I suppose some could argue that the place where they were active should be there, too, and that does sort of make sense. But the flip side of that would be that [[Category:California Actors]] (or whatever is being used) would have hundreds or thousands of profiles in it.

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Yeah I came to that conclusion as well. I'll stick to country of birth or state if they're American for now and the profession will have to be addressed at a later time. Got into a bit of an issue when it came to a Puerto Rican photographer, not really a state, but would have loved to move him out of the American category because of the vastness of America! He was originally from Russia so I added the Russian Roots box to it too. Probably breaking some rules regarding that as well. Can't take two steps in here without hitting a new project with their own rulebook haha!

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There is an existing [[Category:Puerto_Rican_Notables]] under [[Category:American_Notables]].

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Why use Living Notables? You can only see the profiles if you are the PM or on the TL, and by the time anyone else can see it, the person is no longer living.

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Natalie, the reason for the Living Notables category is to clear the hundreds (thousands?) of unlisted profiles of living notables (that most people, as you say, can't do anything with) out of the main Notables category so people can find profiles they can work on.

(It also puts all the living notables into one place so that it's easier to find a profile for a notable who had a profile created before the GDPR crackdown, in case we hear of their death. That way, upon the sad news, that profile can be opened for people to work on.)

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Ok. I kind of get it but it's choosing which notables category someone should have. We have occupation notables, place name notables, etc. A living notable should have JUST THAT ONE.

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Yes, exactly.

Answer 2

Stickers and Project boxes aren't categories. Stickers are biography enhancements, project boxes are for project use on a project managed profile., and categories are for grouping profiles in order to aid the research of genealogists and projects.

No, I don't think the categories should be removed, although, I think there are some redundancies. The categorization team and the various projects are working toward updating and removing unnecessary categories.

Comments

BTW, project boxes always go above the biography header, stickers always go below the biography header. 

I know, I know, one more nit-picky rule to deal with. 

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No it's good that you say it now and not tomorrow!

I hope it's okay to add {{Notables Sticker|Kansas (or whatever) Notables}} instead of having several categories for the same thing? Is it okay to add the Volunteers needed category for notables with weak bios or will they show up anyways in the errorlists (or is that only for empty bios)?

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It's correct that stickers (and templates) aren't categories, but many (possibly not all) of them automatically add categories when they're applied, so if you have the one, you don't need to add the other, too.

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Ahh, yes, I misunderstood your question (sometimes I get confuzzled). Definitely add a parameter to the sticker.

Answer 3

You will also find that Notables Stickers are preformatted to create categories as well.

Comments

Yeah I thought so, seems silly to use anything else! The notables sticker is my new best friend.

Answer 4

The Notables Sticker doesn't do much, and often looks rather redundant and silly when there are other stickers.

Eg you have a sticker that says "This man won a Nobel Prize" and then one that says "This man is notable".  Well yes, he would be, aren't they all.

Losing the category would be a different matter.

So in many cases there seems to be a case for losing the sticker and setting the raw category.

Answer 5

All Unconnected categories will be removed. EditBOT will do that, so you can just leave them or remove them if you are already editing. 

Unlinked and unconnected notables are already gone. 

I just didn't do it yet, since they are nice placeholders for the reports.

Greg, How about if I just remove all profiles from categories and leave the empty categories in the hierarchy? 

Comments

I think I have finished converting all the links on the Let others know what locations you are working on page from using the Unconnected Categories hierarchy to using the DBE reports, so at least as far as I'm concerned, you can go ahead and remove the categories from the profiles, and then delete the categories. (If any remaining links do turn red, I'll just go in and point them to the appropriate reports.)

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I should say that I didn't include the Unconnected Categories when I built the Places to find unconnected profiles page, because I knew they were going away.

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I wasn't sure if you were done. I will start with deletion of the remaining categories.