Research Help Needed Please, this needs settled. [closed]

Question

UPDATE: We have found a wonderful wikitreer that is going to help us get the Sage line worked out. Thank you for all the records and help with personal knoweledge. We will have a refreshed Sage line before we know it.

Hoping someone can help!

Mr Sage [[Sage-423]] has disputed wives. His granddaughter told her children and grandchildren and it was passed down that her grandmother was Brant's daughter. She passed to her children practices that she learned from her mother and grandmother Christiana "Christina" Brant.

There is dispute that this info is correct and some believe that Elizabeth Westbrook is his correct wife.

Not much is found about his wives to any solid decision. I feel it is best if the other person who is working on this and I stay out of the research, as we are both very biased as to the information. Can someone who has the time and ability to, sit and search this one out for facts, PLEASE, someone who is experience on Wikitree and research, help us.

I believe what his grandchild said and taught her family. If it were not that close I would have doubts as that person would not have known  the great grandparents but she would have known who her grandparents were. If solid research is done by someone not vested in this connection and it turns out that Brant is not, I will accept that as all I want is the truth.

Please, someone experienced that is not concerned with this connection, help us. We need proof on this so we can have it finalized.

Comments

Lisa, I do hope that some one steps in. I am just sorry I cannot help as I am very ignorant about sources for your country.

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Hi - I will take a close look at the DNA results of all shown on his profile to see if that provides any insight. I already have found a link between my profile and Ernie Ferguson’s, which may confirm common descent from Allen, although through different wives. Will share results once done.

Hopefully we can figure this out!

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Proof may never be found. Suffice it to say that it cannot be Christina Brant as she would have been bout 11 years old at the time of the birth of Allen Sage's first son William. His first wife may well have been a native woman, Perhaps someone will do a DNA test and prove that. There are no records of the union of Christina Brant and Henry Aaron Hill on Ancestry, or LDS Family Search, but there are several in the local area histories from Brant County and the surrounding area.

see also:

Dictionary of Canadian History, volume VI 1831-1835 www.biographi.ca/en/bio/kenwendeshon6E.html

Historic Niagara Digital Collections, Niagara Falls Public Library:

Wikipedia - Joseph Brant

A genealogy of the Brant Family from Ontario Families (Microform)

Wentworth Historical Society, A Primitive Society: Brant Family - Brantford Public Library

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No problem Jean, I understand as there are England, Wales and other locations that family is at and I have trouble since I am over on this side of the pond.

We actually got an offer for help. There is other parts of the line that really need some help too. It will be refreshed and strong soon.

Answer 1

I have added records that can be seen online to the Sage line. Concerning Allen Sage-423 i have corrected his Revolutionary War record as the Allen Sage record that was attached was still alive 1840 Sandisfield, Berkshire, Massachusetts. The record now attached is correct.

Allen Sage-423 did not marry the daughter of Joseph Brant, she did marry Henry Aaron Hill and named as Christina Hill in Joseph Brant's Will. Joseph Brant was quite close to Henry Aaron Hill and wanted Henry Aaron Hill to replace him after his death.

Joseph Brant, William Johnson and Elizabeth (Westbrook) Beacroft's 1st husband Benjamin Beacroft all fought on the side of the British as partisans with Benjamin Beacroft having a particular bad reputation. Its pretty gruesome.

I can confirm Allen Sage-423 did marry Elizabeth Beacroft nee Westbrook.

Even though Allen Sage-423 had married Elizabeth, the Sage family suffered loss at the hands of her father and brother during the war of 1812 when they went rouge.

Comments

Hi Eric and others on this thread.  Thanks for your comments.  I'm digging into this on the DNA side - have asked all of the dozens of matches my brother and I have to Allen Sage on Ancestry DNA to upload their results to GEDMatch, sadly with little success. That said, I do have three profiles to compare with that are matches to my brother and I (we descend from Allen and his second wife) that go back to Allen and his first wife.  I have compared the amount of shared cM between those sharing both parents and those that are 1/2 (only sharing Allen), and find that the amount of shared cM is higher for the former than the latter - not surprising.  I also have looked at the three profiles that are on GEDMatch that go back to Allen and his first wife, and indeed, those profiles show some Amer-Indian heritage (<2% level).  My brother and I show none.  Of course, still the statistics of small numbers - hoping more respond.

In the meantime, I'm wondering if anyone knows why Allen Sage (1751) had moved to Bloomfield NY?  And why he was associating with loyalists?  He fought on the other "patriot" side during the revolution.  Does anyone know if perhaps Elizabeth Westbrook Beacraft and Allen Sage might have been in the same neighborhood/church, which might explain why they get together?  Otherwise, it did occur to me that, perhaps if Allen's first wife was in fact associated with the Brant crew in some way, that would explain why he is in the area, rather than staying out further east where he came from originally.

Answer 2

I have seen the  marriage certificate with Allen Sage Jr. and Christiana Brant. It could be any Brant except that there is record of Allen Sage Jr. getting land in Canada when Joseph Brant takes loyalist and Native Americans into Upper Canada. at the time the lease or grant was made to Allen he was termed 'husbandman' and when he sold it in 1810 'gentleman'. The original lease reads in part, 'Comprising 297 acres, the same more nor less, and butted and bounded as follows: The said six Nation Indians, by their Chief, Joseph Brant, have hereby devised, granted and farm letten [sic], and by these presents do hereby devise, grant and to farm let' etc. The sum paid was $590.00. This land Allen sold to the Lange family in 1810 and it is still in the posession of the family.

These are my two reason. Family stories I know are from my father's Aunt Cora Mae Brown Beach the author of "Women of the West" wrote about Comfort Sage. My Father was first born in the United States all other relatives since Allen Sage and Calvin Brown (Lucy Sage's husband) have been in Canada. I come from a long line of Loyalists. My Aunt Cora was also trying to connect us to the revolutionary clubs daughters and sons of the Revolution as she was the first to start it in Wyoming. She could not link us except using the second wife. So I'm aware of that. At least I know her reason for doing it. It may not be documented why. Some people want Hill to be Christiana Brants wife but have no proof. Authors write books and put their own ideas into it. So the comments in the topic have represented all the answers that people have for this topic. The person that gave the comment that we may never know for sure is right. I may not know if Allen Sage Jr. had a wife before C. B. either. He is older than C. B. and probably did. But I do know that he married a person named C.B. and that he was given land by J. Brant and was listed as Husband at one time and gentleman upon selling. So there was a change in his life and a change in wife (and she could be 3rd) My Aunt claimed Comfort Sage as her relation and I accept what she says by what she did. There was a very strong message passed down on my fathers side of the family and something we had to live up to. I don't know who are Allen Sage jr. kids or who their mother was except the ones that relate to my family directly. When working a tree you have to be gentle and willing to change but you don't just throw something out. We may not have all the pieces.

My problem with Wikitree is using the software is not easy to work in and I lack in knowing how to put my sources into my tree. I've asked for help. (also I lack time to do everything right this minute) I really dislike the software in ancestry.com too because I have 15 trees for the same family there. Everyone and their brother can make a tree because of the money. Some of it is right and some of it is wrong and I can't do anything about it even if it is my mother's information. (don't have time either) It will just add confusion down the road. So I know the concern. I think what I've seen and know is acceptable. I am still working on everything. I may not appear as trustworthy but I am a concerned worker. Even when I look at Ellwood's wife I am finding loyalists in Canada. Immigration to Michigan and then elsewhere. (We look at Canada from the south but in those days they looked at Canada from the ocean and that is why Ontario is Upper and the lower half is closer to the ocean. Michigan is straight across from Ontario.) I'm second born in USA but told all about my Rhode Island Thomas and my past. I can't figure out how to go to England. that is my quest of unknown. Everything else fits.

Comments

The U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900" are not counted as good records. They are the same as trees as they can be written by anyone and therefore someone could say you were married to King Henry and it would be there for everyone to see.

I am one of many relatives that have not been born in Canada. I am a direct decendant of Comfort and many have not.

We have a person who is going to help with the research and get sources for this line of the family. Please keep an eye on it and see all the corrections and documentations. If you have solid sources, please feel free to help.

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Hi Sandy - Have you done a DNA test?  If so, could you upload it to GEDMatch, and let me know your kit number?  It would be helpful to compare your DNA results with those of others that are descended from Allen Sage Jr (like my brother and myself), so we could see if you perhaps have measurable Amer-Indian DNA.

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Did you have a measurable amount of DNA of Native American? I don't understand how DNA testing works. My daughter doesn't think it is safe to do for security reasons. Give me your thoughts of this.