Did you see that categories now appear at the bottom of profiles?

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Hi WikiTreers,

Categories now appear at the bottom of a profile instead of above the biographies. See, for example, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Eisenhower-1

There is a little "[categories]" link where categories used to appear. Where categories appear at the bottom, there is an "[edit]" link that takes you to the text section of the profile editing page. There's also a "[top]" link that brings back to the top of the page.

We discussed this change a lot (most recently here and here) but I realize it will be jarring, and not everyone agrees with it.

An important point that emerged in our conversations is that categories aren't just for us. They're not just for genealogy collaboration. They are part of the genealogy content that we're growing and what makes it accessible to others, now and in the future.

For example, categorizing people as farmers may seem genealogically meaningless and overly broad for any practical purpose here. But some future descendant might want to see all their ancestors who were farmers, or some historian might want to see farmers in a certain geographical area.

Categorization is very useful for search and navigation, but the usage of categories has been constrained because members have only wanted to use them for genealogically important things -- things that merit appearing above the biography. Their overly-prominent position made their usage controversial. Now I think members will feel more comfortable seeing them used more liberally.

By the way, all this is about their appearance on the profile page. The placement of the category tags when editing a profile doesn't need to change.

We've made two other categorization-related changes:

1.) We simplified the introduction to categorization and moved around the more advanced instructions.

2.) We created a form for requesting a new category. Creating categories isn't something most members need to tackle on their own. This form is now linked from the bottom of every category page.

If you're an advanced categorizer you'll also be interested in the nice Categorization Project newsletter that Natalie and Steven posted a few days ago.

Onward and upward,

Chris

in The Tree House by Chris Whitten G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
Love it. And thanks for the top-side link to the categories, easy navigation.
Thanks! As a visually impaired user using a screen reader, though, it's a bit difficult to find right off the bat.

I've been meaning to suggest this, but is it possible to have some WAI-ARIA HTML attributes added to certain spots on the page, like the "Categories" title/header label, and make them appear as headers to assistive technologies? (IE role="heading", aria-level="2") Visually they won't look any different, but this would let a screen raeder user jump directly to the Categories section. (I'd find this extremely useful for some of the other 'sections' that don't have a coded header - Initiate a Merge, Memories, etc. etc. As it is, I have to Ctrl+F and find the spot in the page.)
I just created a category and I can see the red text in my profile, but for a private profile, it doesn't show any categories.  Not sure if I'm doing it wrong or if it is a bug?
So glad this is posted.  I was just working on a profile and was "missing" the categories.  Now I know where they are!  :)
Chris - this is downwards and backwards, not onward and upward, for a lot of people who have worked on projects where the categorisation was key to how they saw the profiles and how they wanted them to be seen. Scrolling all the way to the bottom every...single...time is painful.
You do not have to scroll down. There is a link button top right above the bio. But, as I have suggested in an answer, this button could be in a more prominent font. It is very easy to miss. I had a moment of panic when I turned to a profile this morning and thought the categories had just vanished - and then after a few minutes ai saw the link button.

Some of my profiles now no longer show any categories at all, even though they are in the text. Is there a known bug?
eg my father's profile, (if you can access it):

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kane-1211

Peter, are the affected profiles private (unlisted)?  I don't see any categories on my unlisted profiles.
No Categories are showing up on  profiles I created.  Does this mean categories have to be added to profiles again?  It so, I will not be wasting my time to once again add categories to profiles.
No, Brenda - the categories you already created are at the very very bottom of the page.  There is also a tiny text link [categories] where the categories used to be.
For a profile like Ike with dozens and dozens of categories, this makes sense. For most this is probably not an improvement and I believe many users will view this change negatively. I had to hunt for the "top side" link to categories even after reading it was there--that link needs to be obvious.
@SJ I tried adding a (valid) category to one of my Unlisted profiles and got the same result - the category does not show up anywhere on the profile. And I know how to find them on public profiles. (The profile is listed in the category).
it took this old woman awhile to find the CATEGORIES  on the bottom line...  saw the "categories"  box but when it went down to the bottom  when there is like only 1 category  hard to see it...  of course  DDE  has a ton of them so it was it for me see his.  so will have some getting used to...
So I found it below "Matches and Merges."  I doubt anyone would ever look that far down when researching a person.  With that in mind it doesn't appear it would be worth someones time to add a category.
I agree.  so now I am adding the info that the category has to offer in the bio..  more work but when a visitor comes in they are not going to see that tinsy-winsy little categories on the far right and know what it means..  gosh and I use those category boxes for my research FREE SPACES to get back to the one I did last..  sorry guys.. its neat/tidy   but can you put it ABOVE the Matches/Merges  that is as far as I looked.
Chris, this makes our project maintenance useless. Worthless. I cannot believe that you did not take the time for a transitional period of trying to find a system that works for both the projects and the general WikiTree mission. This is a serious set-back.
I'm so dissappointed I'm going to retire for the evening after a hard days work. Will see if and when I'll resume my WikiTree activities.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Personally I liked the category functionality before and made an effort to use it.  I now do not like the category functionality and will not make an effort to use it.  However, if there was an issue with profiles being less likely to be found by search engines then I will certainly live with the change as access by others is far more important to me than how categories occur on the profile once someone gets there.  Just don't expect to see many more categories added to profiles by me.  

I don't consider it a big issue, so now that I know what it will now look like I (and others) can simply use or not use categories based on the now live rules.
Well pretty much this change sucks. I can't see at a glance if the person is in a category or needs to be added. Time wasting.
Im going to have to hurry and get everything out of my personal categories...I thought they were for me to organize and keep things straight. Now i have to scroll even further to figure out where they are.  why not just a drop down where there is that teeny [Categories] link to the bottom of the page?  strange.

I looked and looked... Could not find what they were saying, till I read your post Brenda Breland Shaffer . "BELOW Matches and Merges" should be in the original post from Chris. 

If people can't see the Categories, they won't click on or use them. They are as good as invisible at the bottom of the page. People just don't scroll down that far. So not a fan of this change. - If you are a member you might know about this change, but for the general public coming to a wikitree page, unless they "see" categories in a place with the type of category  clearly visible and displayed, they won't be interested enough to look for what the teeny tiny jump link [categories] means. I don't view Categories as only a tool for members, but also a tool for the public. - So my suggestion would be to place them higher on the page. Or to code it in such a way that if a profile has more than a certain number of categories (say 5 or 6?) then the categories for that person would continue elsewhere.
I NOW am going to my family and adding the category information to the bio...  makes it longer and more time consuming for me.  BUT I want to be able to go to a profile, and SEE  where they were a soldier, or where they are buried without reading the entire profile. I thought I could just go to CONTENT and click on military or death  etc.  but a lot do not have 4 subtitles... GADS.............. So this is, sorry,  not the best idea the TEAM has come up with. The BOTTOM of the profile under Merges...........very anticlimactic.  Visitors are not going to know to look DOWN THERE.
I was surprised when the change happened to the categories but I can see the advantages.  

I use categories extensively for the Jacka One Name Study but was conscious that it was cluttering up the profiles.  As they have now been pushed down to the bottom of the profile I am considering adding a few more (eg category 1841 census ) that will make future research a lot easier rather than keeping the information in a separate spreadsheet that is not accessible to others.

Web design isn't my thing so I will stick to research but I would like to thank those who take the time to do the work.  I feel that WikiTree is beginning to take on an individuality of it's own now and is no longer just another Look-alike online tree.  Great work to all involved.
it's a private profile, but has categories.
There is a lot of blank wasted space at the top of profiles.  Relegating categories (very important for some of us in our projects) and hiding them right at the bottom just does not make any sense.
Nope, couldn't see them even after reading your description of where they went. Finally found them after re-reading it again. I'd prefer them to be more distinctive.
I agree with Bonnie this change does not improve visibility.

It is a complete and unnecessary waste of time and effort.
I came to WT logged out and I don't see the categories button nor the "top" button.  I logged in and they appeared, logged out, and they are gone again.  Not sure if this is a bug or not - from what I'm seeing, new folks who aren't logged in can't see categories at all?

oh, and a further point, was just looking at a profile that has no categories on it, and lo and behold, the little categories word isn't even on the page where it shows when there are categories.  How do you expect people to know about putting categories in if there's not even a hint there?

That's because it's not a 'hint', it's a link to zoom you down to the categories at the bottom. If there are no categories, then there is nothing for it to link to, so no point in it appearing.
Even before the categories were moved, there was no "hint" of the existence of categories as a feature on profiles without categories. There is the category picker on top of the edit box (and it's relatively new) and that is that.
the categories themselves showed at the top of the bio, so that was actually an indication that they existed.  I certainly wouldn't have known about them as soon as I did if they hadn't been there.

Yes! Yay! That is so much better yes

I think categories are great, very useful, but I always thought they were totally horrible at the top of the page by default. Especially on profiles which have dozens of them. I'm not 100% convinced they should be waaaay at the bottom of the page under merge proposals and degrees from links though. I would have liked to see them directly under sources, or as foot notes to the bio. All in all though ... very happy they are no longer at the top. Thank you :)

"We discussed this change a lot (most recently here and here) but I realize it will be jarring, and not everyone agrees with it." - I gather that this is why this decision was just made, because all the pro's and cons could not be weighed in time; it was not in anyone's interest to make time.

"An important point that emerged in our conversations is that categories aren't just for us. They're not just for genealogy collaboration. They are part of the genealogy content that we're growing and what makes it accessible to others, now and in the future." - Yes indeed, that is why Projects started implementing "Maintenance Categories" so that it becomes clearer what needs to be done and to which project a profile belongs, so that it may be optimaly managed. 

"For example, categorizing people as farmers may seem genealogically meaningless and overly broad for any practical purpose here. But some future descendant might want to see all their ancestors who were farmers, or some historian might want to see farmers in a certain geographical area." - In that sense we are speaking of tags, not important categories. If I go to the category "Farmers", I'll find a vast pool of profiles with exactly that. The idea of maintenance categories is that when one arrives on a profile, that it is obviously visible what is needed to be done. Going to the holding pen of a specific category such as [[Needs_Marital_Records]] is working the other way around. 

"Categorization is very useful for search and navigation, but the usage of categories has been constrained because members have only wanted to use them for genealogically important things - things that merit appearing above the biography. Their overly-prominent position made their usage controversial. Now I think members will feel more comfortable seeing them used more liberally." - This does not make sense to me. The logic here seems constrained and not factual. How will 'more' members feel 'more' comfortable when members [anyhow] 'only wanted' to use them for 'genealogically important' 'things' {{Sic!}}  Also, following this seemingly non-sensical logic, the DNA-test info also need to be to the bottom.

"By the way, all this is about their appearance on the profile page. The placement of the category tags when editing a profile doesn't need to change." Yes, this is overly clear. When I edit a profile, the categories still appear above with the edit frame. But the maintenance categories, even when encapsulated within a template, does not show up at the top but at the bottom, when the edit is saved and the page returned to normal view. Right down below the rest of the i.m.h.o. junk such as so many steps removed from such and such …

Only if a profile is protected, there is an inkling (in our project at least) that at least some validation has taken place, even though what is still needed is then information on other needs, such as marital or death records.

I have - as some people below, suggestions that might alternatively or by way of compromise be useful.

I agree with Philip's comments. The maintenance categories ("Needs Sources", etc.) could be treated as a separate type of category - a sub-categories type of thing, and be placed differently on the page. For anyone doing prospective maintenance, another step of clicking on [categories] jump link, if it exists at top of page, has now been created.  (In fact I now find myself having to do this on every profile containing a [categories] link.) So it increases time spent for anyone doing maintenance. And it seems to have been developed because it was considered "ugly" to have too many categories in the former location on the page.

I have only been on wikitree just over a year, and it took me awhile to discover categories and start to use them. They are a feature unique to wikitree and one of its most valuable developments. They are not for "genealogy collaboration" only. How they can be used will likely evolve, as more people see the value in using them.  They can be a tool for historians or general public starting research and finding a wikitree profile page, that then might link to a cemetery where other potential ancestors are also buried.  It can be used for someone wondering who are the artists, or some other profession, etc., for tracking migration patterns, etc. The uses for categories will evolve and increase, if people are not discouraged from noticing and using them.  

So thanks to the Categorization team for working on this, but I don't think your job is done yet, as evidenced by so many comments on this subject. People who have discovered Categories have come to love them.
The solution for the categories is to allow them to be used in the bio it's self, like a inline source.  It keeps the bio clean, and transmits to the reader the history / information we want to pass on.  Now I do not know the feasibility of doing it this way, but something to look at.

Or put them under headers in the bio that apply for the type of category.

But please get them off the bottom of the page, as they look like they do not belong to the bio  most the time.

,

Surely if you are doing maintenance related work you would go to the related category to see which profiles need work rather than choosing a profile at random and checking what categories it may have. 

That way you could see at a glance that you could have 200 that need birth records, 10 that need marriage records, 565 that need death records for example. You would then also be in the mindset of what research tools do I need to find Birth, Death, Marriage records instead of going to profile Joe Bloggs, what do I need to find for him, Next profile Jane Doe, Argggh I need totally different records for her. 

By going from the category page you can know what profile needs what maintenance task, have your tools easily at hand and by removing the unneeded category when task complete have an automatically updating list to work off. 

Steven, you can easily use categories inside the Biography text, for instance like this: "Joe Smith was a [[:Category:Dentists|dentist]]." Then he will automagically pop up in the "Dentists" category, and for all purposes this does the same as entering [[Category:Dentists]] at the top of the Edit screen. (Whether the category "Dentists" exists or is even useful, is of course quite another matter.)
I agree with Darren.  Surely, you would go to the maintenance category itself (such as Needs Bio or Needs Birth Info), which is a list of all the profiles which Need something.

If you go to a profile, your own eyes will tell you what it Needs before you ever get to the categories.  The categories do the grouping into a maintenance category.  Your eyes do the noticing.
Actually, Leif, if you include a category link, [[:Category:Dentists|Dentists]], you will have a link to the category in the profile, but it will not list the profile in the category.
Isabelle, of course you're right. I don't know what I was thinking.

Neither does it work to enter "Joe Smith was a [[Category:Dentists|dentist]]." It will be categorised properly, but the word "dentist" will be hidden.
that is what I am trying...since that tiny "category"  name at the right is just not big enough to see unless of course you are an Old Hand-wikitreer.. I am adding a == Categories ==  and down under Sources AND have added == Death == and that info and then == Life == etc.. looks ok   and  I am making sure there are no spaces between the == bio ==  and == military ==  etc. so there is not too much empty space at the top.  Harden-1683

"Surely if you are doing maintenance related work you would go to the related category to see which profiles need work rather than choosing a profile at random and checking what categories it may have." - here lies the rub. The whole idea of maintenance 'related' work is that one shouldn't have to go to the category in question, page through thousands of profiles and then merely choose any random profile to work on. 

The [[Category:Needs_Blah_Blah]] should be visible for the majority of visitors who happen to chance on any random profile during a search, and who would not necessarily have any part of a project. 

Example (just a silly one; there are many others as well): normally there are many name variations the further back one goes in time. My progenitor https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Andriesz-6 and his ancestors did not have my surname, which is van der Walt, instead there was a naming system called patronymics. Normally we would in our COGH project make clear when a profile has been primarily validated (baptism image; transcription of LNAB & parents). This would be done by adding both templates and categories. In the case of my progenitor (as with a lot of other progenitor settlers arriving in the then colony), they would not have baptism records to prove the spelling of the LNAB. So I need to put that to the top of the bio: "No baptism image or transcription exists. See the first known spelling of his name on the image of the entry of 'Geelis Andriesz' from 'Veenwouden' in the ship journal of the 'Huis te Assenberg', 1726. Van der Walt-440

01:06, 18 June 2017 (EDT)" His first wife, was born in the colony and does have a validated LNAB: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Weyers-2. Now the template and the category [[Category: Cape of Good Hope Ready]] would with the current system be insufficient to show that her profile has been adequately validated (we do not use {{Unsourced}} in this project because we always have sources; the question is the validaty of the data and the connection in the sources, so we have the template {{Dutch_Cape_Colony|Needs=Validation}}. Normally, when for example on a profile such as that of my fifth great-grand aunt https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Van_der_Walt-98 there are still processes that need be done:

{{Dutch_Cape_Colony}}

[[Category:Cape of Good Hope Ready]] = Validated with correct spelling and profile protected
[[Category:Cape_of_Good_Hope_Project_Needs_Marriage_Record]]
[[Category:Cape_of_Good_Hope_Project_Needs_Transcription]]

They are now completely at the bottom. This I'm sure will change in time; I expect the small categories link to the top to be functioning the same fashion as the profile previews, or at least given other appearances elsewhere as described / suggest below.

Fact remains that these maintenance categories are not merely tags, but a different kind of signifyer also meant to be in your face when searching through tables to search for let say duplicates or doing genealogical research.

I think we may see a whole lot more maintenance stickers in future being used to highlight the aspects needing attention.  Not looking forward to that, already things like {{Unsourced}} put a grey banner across the top of the bio section which I find ugly, we'll be seeing more such I bet to palliate these categories being moved in display.
There's any easy way to fix that ugly gray banner: add some sources. I think that was the intention, to hopefully draw people to improve the profile.

You have the incorrect idea of what sources are Bobbie. I wrote: "in this project because we always have sources; (example: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Marais-303) the question is the validity of the data and the connection [of the spouses / parents / children] in the sources, so we have the template {{Dutch_Cape_Colony|Needs=Validation}}.' So adding just any 'ol source does not validate a profile and though you may remove the unsightly grey banner then because you are comfortable that your profile has been adequately validated, this is only a superficial remedy. This though is not a thread about sources; it is a thread about categories dissappearing to the bottom and the maintenance of projects. 

That is hardly what I meant, Philip. I take offence at your tone. (But I'll get over it.) I meant sound, reliable, authoritative, appropriate sources that would validate the profile's data and thereby allow for removal of the dreaded gray box. I agree that the maintenance categories disappearing to the bottom of the profile is a difficulty for some projects. However, I would prefer, in general, the new layout, if the categories were just below the sources, and above "More Genealogy Tools." Clearly this is a preference that we each can choose.

I stand corrected Bobbie, though I did find your comment about adding sources to get rid of the unsightly banner, rather flippant. My tone was in reflectance of this perceived flippancy. Clearly, if you had clicked to the examples I had originally given, your answer would not have been that superficial.
I'm sorry you read it as flippant, it was meant otherwise. I apologize for not having read everything you wrote and pointed to originally. You're clearly upset by the change, with good reason as it applies to your project's objectives.
I apologise as well Bobbie, for jumping to conclusions and reacting without taking the time to reflect. Your sincere apology shows understanding and empathy.
it was an illustration Bobbie, take a look at the number of recurring Maintenance categories, like X needs bio, X needs sources, X needs marriage record and so on.  They are categories right now, so are no longer visible unless somebody goes looking for them.  And don't tell me to go to the category page to find some please, not everybody works that way.
Bad move, in my opinion. There should be some compromise to allow Categories to appear more prominently in a profile then basically 'hidden' at the bottom.

Two small updates today:

  1. The categories now appear in a green box.
  2. They appear for Unlisted profiles.

Much, much better.  Thanks! smiley

Still wish it was below Sources area or on the right side of the page before dna, but the box make a huge difference!! Big improvement! At least it doesn't look like a afterthought anymore.
But the green box makes it more over look able to me!  OMG they are past the point where the profile ENDS!
The green box around categories is better, but it looks like you guys are still wedded to the wider bottom of the page area for placing the categories. So if it's going to remain down there, I would suggest at least putting the categories above the Merge tools area. It would still be in the wider place (avoiding the columns) but possibly more visible to newcomers on a profile page.  I still think they should be viewed as part of a profile, so should be closer to that area, rather than under the extraneous area for Match and Merge, degrees of relationships, etc.
change the box colour, that green makes it look like some sort of unrelated add-on, and doesn't draw attention.  Meanwhile, I hope you are taking note of all the multiple comments, this location really is not useful for those working on multiple profiles.  And SEOs should not be an excuse for putting this there, since a search on google or other will bring up the actual categories rather than the profiles in them.
Not really helping or that much of an improvement Chris! If you insist on keeping them right down to the bottom, creating a hovering feauture such as with profile previews, might make a difference.
Now the categories are well and truly buried - at the bottom and in a box.
It’s readily apparent that the largest number of comments and votes are not happy with having the categories “buried” at the bottom. It’s also apparent that the opinions and suggestions of WikiTree users are given little consideration by the WikiTree management and web designers. Our opinions are also buried. Play “Taps!”
I wouldn't take it too hard, Bill. Obviously, there are opinions on both sides. I'm actually in favor of the change (it is a pretty basic element of wiki style). I suspect many of those in favor, like me, stay pretty quiet. More vocal doesn't necessarily equal a majority ;)

Part of the issue is simply change. Newcomers won't face a drastically inferior interface, they'll just adapt to whatever they're presented with. As Mark Twain (supposedly?) said, "I'm in favor of progress, it's change I don't like."

That's not to say the anti-bottom crowd doesn't have valid points. It will change some of your workflows. But to an observer, some of the conversation sounds like the thudding of sticks on a dead horse.
Agreed on all points, Eric.
Jason & Bill -I'm in agreement on all counts.

I agree with your final point Eric. I'm not concerned about us veteran users adapting--I've been rolling with the changes since 2013. I'm only moderately concerned about newbies ---although I regularly get feedback from those cousins who've linked in to existing profiles that this site is very 'clunky'  and the learning curve is relatively steep especially for the older generation (who often happen to have the most information to share).

 My biggest beef is that there is absolutely no value left in categories as 'cousin bait'. To me, the expectation that any casual viewer of a profile arriving by a google search etc.....is EVER even going toscroll to the bottom and see the green coffin is ZERO.

Bill, Eric, Bobbie (and others) - I agree with the dictum of Mark Twain. Yet  there are many valid points being made and seldom have I seen in all my time with WikiTree a dissent procentage of more than 80 votes.

Usually it is the other way around, with lots of "Yay's" and "Praises" in the majority, and the dissenters more or less also listened to and the pro's and con's weighed more.

With this decision though I have serious suspicions that the change was forced through, regardless. The arguments given by the highest leadership weak at most. Yes, "Ike's'' profile does look a lot better, but the profile was overly militarily categorised to begin with. While it is being used as benchmark now. 

Of course we'll all have to adapt and over time we will learn to live with it. It is the working with that is creating the difficulties. Workflow processes that are supposed to help create a more valid genealogical tree in Wiki form. With special USP the alogorithmic "check".

It's a pity the CEO can't go for 'undercover boss' on this decision to experience the fall-out from the user's pespective.

Eric, a dead horse it may be but dissent has to be aired in the hope that sense can be seen in what many appear to agree is a bad decision.

And it's more than just hot air - I've averaged around 1,500 edits per month over the past two years and have no inclination to spend that much time on projects here if a key part of that work is essentially invisible. I'm not saying everyone is going to reduce their productivity by 90% but hopefully you get the point.

If the powers that be realised that it's a microscopic percentage of profiles that this helps - and, no disrespect to those involved in Notables projects, if I wanted to read about Eisenhower's life, I'd go to Wikipedia in the first instance (where the categorisation at the bottom works) - and a huge percentage that it lessens.

"Cousins,
Please note that the powers-that-be at the wikitree website have decided that the "Category" function will not be used for the functions that were most useful to me so I will no longer be adding any of the new family connections I make ... to those pages."

This is the new note I've left at a website that I frequent for additional 'cousin bait' purposes.

Some comments on recent comments: 

there is absolutely no value left in categories as 'cousin bait'

From the help page on cousin bait: 

"Cousin bait" is a term that genealogists use for luring cousins who can share and collaborate with them.

I'm having trouble seeing how changing the position of the categories removes their value as cousin bait. The categories will still help a profile be found in a Google search. Once a cousin has been lured to the profile they can message the profile manager and collaborate. How does the position of the categories change any of that?

 the profile was overly militarily categorised

This is the problem. We want people to use categories, but many people weren't because they were afraid of cluttering the biography by over-categorizing. Now that they are at the bottom, people don't have to worry about placing personal categories or other less genealogically relevant categories on the profile. 

Huge improvement, thank you for the further highlighting with the green box, it looks really good.
Its okay Jamie,

I've officially re-Categorized my self as

[[No Longer Beating The Dead Horse]]

[[Moving Onward and Upward and No longer Interested in Adding/Using Categories At All]]
Sorry to hear that Nick!  It does matter - very few have so many categories that it pushed down or in any way hurt the look of the profile - I just do not get it at all - the ones that say it now looks so "clean": and all - I think it is a bunch of hooey - they were fine before except Ike - wow so now that is a thing that we will have to just trash as far as explaining to new folks coming in because it will take too long to tell them where to find them and they will not think it is worth it to use them and it is a shame after the volunteers that did it went to all the trouble of getting them set up right.
My two cents:

As a Newt, I had no problem finding the Categories in their new location. I joined Wikitree after the change. I use Categories all the time, with the Quakers Project, and I think others will too once they get used to them.  And, since the facts stated in the Categories are already REFERENCED and SOURCED in the profile it should all work out fine.

Everyone, please don’t stop using Categories as they are very helpful and appreciated.

Thanks,

Wikitree Fan❤️
Jennifer,

First off, this thread is old and a dead discussion. But I am impressed with any Noob who has taken the time to go back and review this old material!

Second, You were born in the '70s, in the USA, probably have English as a first language and probably have had access to computers & the internet etc.... most of your life and are at least moderately tech savvy. The audience I was trying to reach may have none of those things in common with you.

Placing the categories at the bottom of the page was just the final step in the removal of their functionality for me. To accomplish what I desired, I would now need multiple OPSs, ONSs, FSPs etc.... and have no expectation that my desired audience would ever click through all those links to see any/all of what I tried to add at the category level (one-stop shopping) so they are simply no longer worth my time.

Since I no longer am adding categories to new profiles, I removed categories from the 3000+ profiles that were in my current projects so that they are all now consistent.

Since these profiles were not in the typical 'English to American Zone', chances are most wikitreers will never interface with them anyway.

Jennifer, you wrote: "And, since the facts stated in the Categories are already REFERENCED and SOURCED in the profile it should all work out fine." - No they are in the vast majority not already referenced and sourced. And even if referenced and sourced, not Always valid and mostly in a process being maintained. 

You also wrote: "Everyone, please don’t stop using Categories as they are very helpful and appreciated". I did not see anybody in this feed and all it's answers suggesting this. Yes of course they are very helpful and appreciated. That's why people are passionate about them. That's why people are in the vast majority upset about this decision. But life goes on and we still have to work in projects.

Question is why has there still been nothing done nor [in the least] communicated to us all about all the suggestions WikiTreers have given? Makes one seriously wonder … 

… why the two positive posts are at the top of this feed and the negative post (3rd one with 82 downvotes) below them.
Simply based on the G2G feed from tags/projects which I follow, I have the impression WikiTree use has dropped sharply in recent weeks/months. How much of this is related to the categories issue? Only one of numerous projects that I follow appears to remain quite active but category discussion within that project has dropped to near zero. This tiny slice of anecdotal evidence suggests this decision is having serious consequences despite some well-meaning folks cheerleading for the decision.
Philip, if you scroll up Chris mentioned that we did implement some of the things suggested, most notably putting a border around the categories so they are easier to see.

And the vast majority aren't upset about this -- there are 3-4 times as many upvotes as there are downvotes on the post. As to the order of the answers -- they are in the order that they were posted.

Are you kidding me Jamie? How come … see here 82 downvotes …! Only the cadre was attended to, not other suggestions (such as the hovering window as you now find with familial connections). But really, I'm not going argue anymore. There is just too much work to be done and it is no use barking against deaf ears. [Edit: And I did not say everybody was unhappy about this. If you look to a post at the top - mine - I do agree that I'ke's profile does look better now; but that is just one point. There is a scala of opinions and suggestions here … ]

Not sure if the infrastructure supports this but an option to have them as they were OR as they have become would be / have been super.
I realize my opinion is probably going to be weighted differently, as I am completely blind IRL. (I have 0 light perception, even - I navigate WikiTree through the use of a screen raeding program that reads the text out using a text-to-speech synthesized voice.)

That being said, I'd definitely prefer if the Categories were moved to, at the very least, be above the rejected matches/comments, etc., which can be long. Being blind, you could make the outline box for Categories neon green and it wouldn't make it any easier to get to. (Currently my MO is to use the jump-to link located above the Biography or just use Ctrl+F to find 'Categories'.) However, I'm not hateful enough of the change as it is to stop using Categories or WikiTree as a whole, though, because of it. [There are a whole lot more things that take me a bit longer to do, as they are inaccessible - for example, any of those pull-down menus that require you to hover your mouse over to get to ... I can't get to them and rely mainly on regular old bookmarks.)

If the Categories section can't physically be moved (screen readers read text in the order they are placed in the HTML behind the scenes), can we please:

- Add headers (h2/h3), etc., to the titles for each of the sections, including Categories.

Screen reader users can jump from header to header, so users of assistive technologies would be much easier to find the Categories section. (As well, there are many other 'titles' for various sections, such as Rejected Matches, etc., that could use a header.)

Note: If you don't want to use h2/h3/h4, etc., for visual purposes, you can add role="heading" on any regular old text block and then the screen raeder will think of it like a header without even changing the look of it visually.
Thank you Kristen for sharing your experience. Your comment is something any good web developer or designer or coder should be thinking about.

I really didn't expect to once again have this categories issue popping up in my emails, but since it did with all the comments today, it's clear many people still consider it a hot topic. My additional comment is that I think you should be taking those little vote boxes with a grain of salt. They don't work very well. Not only do they not always record your vote correctly, but it's also not clear if you are voting on the original post or on a comment. And most times I don't use them at all. Because they just are funky. I suspect many other left comments rather than a "vote". So read the comments.

Aside from that, I still would like to use categories and don't plan to stop using them simply because I disagree with how they were buried on the page. I wold never consider removing categories from my pages as some type of futile protest. That accomplishes nothing.

"I wold never consider removing categories from my pages as some type of futile protest. That accomplishes nothing."

Amen.

Philip, those are upvotes, not downvotes. On the main post, there are more upvotes than downvotes.

Kristen, I just want to verify that the jump link works with your screen reader? The green box was to help people who said they couldn't find the categories even when they used the link because they were not easily distinguishable from the other text. Is that as much as a problem with a screen reader?

We are planning on separating the categories into further sections (for example, one name studies, locations, occupations, personal categories) so that would probably be a good time to adjust how the category section is read by screen readers.
Yes, the jump-to link does work.

However, I do think adding headers to the Categories (h2/h3/h4, etc.) would add another level of easier navigation for a screen reader. IE, the title is already there as "Categories". It just needs to be surrounded by an h2 element.

The Biography and Sources sections already show up properly as headers and that makes it very easy for me to just jump to those sections. As a screen reader user, I'd like a secondary way to navigate to the Categories section (a header) besides the jump-to link.

I also think all the different 'sections' at the bottom of the profile pages need headers, too, as they are extremely hard to distinguish/jump-to as a screen reader user - IE "Rejected Merges", etc. etc. A lot of these sections actually have title text, but the text is not surrounded by a header (h2/h3/h4), so I can't easily jump to it.

I'm going to use my usual metaphor of:

- It's like trying to read a reference book without the table of contents.

I either have to read all of the text to try to find the section I want (public comments, cousin bait, connections, categories, merges, tools) or try to remember what the exact wording is so I can use Ctrl+F (and hope I don't get jumped to another instance of that word further up the page.)

I suppose I could separate this out into a new G2G thread as a general suggestion, as it's really the only minor annoyance I find with the profile pages.
huh, separate categories into further sections?  Whatever for?  Most profiles don't have that many categories on them, unlike Eisenhower who has been used as an example, despite being the exception rather than the rule.
We don't want Eisenhower to be the exception. We want to encourage people to add as many categories as are applicable to a profile. People don't have to worry about putting their personal category, needs research categories, one name study categories, military award categories, etc. because they are no longer pushing the main content -- the biography and sources -- down the page.
but most profiles are not going to have that many.  BMD locations, profession, particular points about the person, most profiles will not go to more than 10 categories.  Hardly needs splitting up then.
I did notice this T Stanton, and I am greatly saddened by this, and with that and other things I am now hesitant to recommend WT to those interested in starting tree work - and like Danielle, I see no need to dump them down there because of a very low percentage of profiles with way lots of categories - so few
Now separating categories into further subsections of some sort? My eyebrow raised along with Danielle's. As a Mentor I constantly work with people who have issues with the steep WikiTree learning curve. Most profiles have but a few categories and most I see with many beg the question, why?

It was stated by those that made the categories change that this entire issue started with people concerned about rankings in Google searches, nothing more. The majority have not found this change positive. Why this change was so critical has never been adequately addressed. Why would we add additional layers of complexity to the already most complex online genealogy site?

From my perspective WT has a number of far more important issues actually related to genealogical pursuit to address than moving categories to the sub-basement, upsetting what very much appears to be the majority...and now adding subsections?
Can we please just make this whole argument go away?

We need to scroll down to see the categories. I'm sorry the whole world is crashing down around the ears of some people, and they're very upset that all of a sudden, because the categories are at the bottom, that they aren't related to any of their family. That their histories suddenly vanished, and they no longer have any DNA. It's terrible. I'm sorry. My heart goes out to you, and your family who is suffering so badly. And the ghosts of your ancestors, who no longer have a resting place.

But could we, please, move on?????
For those of us with limited time to be working on WikiTree it is not an "oh well" Brad - We are trying to do quality work here - sourcing with good sources in a format that allows others to "go see" what we looked at - correct Spellings of names, places - checking to make sure the dates we entered match what we were looking at when we entered them - correcting any suggestions that come up and when we take time to add categories to those profiles we do it with care and I started with my military people - feeling they should be honored for their service and now it is wiped out because a few people thought a very very few profiles looked bad because they had so many categories on them - well why did this not sent any OVERFLOW categories to the depths of H-E-double toothpicks instead of all of them?  It is baloney - and we should have a say in it and we did and no one cares how we feel and it really makes some of us feel like we wasted our time trying to learn all the tricks and rules and ways of WikiTree to have our wishes ignored for the benefit of the very very few

" feeling they should be honored for their service and now it is wiped out because a few people thought a very very few profiles looked bad because they had so many categories on them"

I struggle to understand why you feel like military service means less, because of an visual change in the display of categories. I'm sorry you feel like this. But. Wow.

because they wont see it - the casual observer will not scroll way down there, after all the sources if they even look at those to see that my uncle was a chief petty officer on one of the ships hit at Pearl Harbor - of the way back grandparent's brother who served in the war of 1812 - no it won't be known like it was - right up there at the top before
You can add a sticker. That's what stickers are for.

Just for the record:

  • I'm still unhappy about having the categories at the bottom
  • I'm still categorizing profiles I create
  • but I don't actually use them for discovery work as much as I used to. This may be because of the characteristics of the local community I am currently working on - or because the categories are no longer "in my face"
  • I stopped giving out downvotes long ago, when I understood they work as a black spot on the giver as well as on a receiver
Just to give my two cents:

* I did not particularly like the categories being moved.

* I still add categories to profiles I manage, and not less than before.

* I add categories to profiles I don't manage more often than before, because now no one can complain that they "clutter" the profile.

* I still don't like the idea of categorizing anything and everything, down to (for instance) defunct university hockey teams, and still very much dislike some types of categories.

* And yes, this whole episode has somewhat changed my work on categories because I now systematically take care to add an explanation and source to any category I add, which may not always have been the case before.

I vehemently disagree that moving a category down is "wiping out" something that was important in someone's life. If it was important then it should have a paragraph in the biography. Use a header. It will stand out and be easy to jump to from the Contents section. I fail to see how adding a category is honoring something.

And I no longer give downvotes either.

Here it is at last: the reason most people liked to have categories up top:

"feeling they should be honored for their service and now it is wiped out"

So many people used categories to show a person's military service, or to honour them in some way.  This is NOT what categories are for.  They are to make groups. It is not to show that one particular person was a chief petty officer at Pearl Harbour.  A category is to group all the chief petty officers at Pearl Harbour.

Well, it is not the reason I preferred to have them on top.

I use almost exclusively location categories, which are great for grouping families in the old Swedish patronymic society.

I liked the easy access of having them at the top, navigating back and forth between individual and neighbour group. Extra clicks and jumps add up when you spend most of your days WikiTreeing, as I do.
Exactly! takes longer to get things done
I do agree to let this lie.. but please let us me nice to each other.  no need to be harsh to each others ideas.  It is time to spend our time adding data, and bios, sources, and photos to our family TREE.
Carole, we have let this ride / lie without clear closing from leadership above. There are many differing and important points being made here. Just being 'nice' to the ideas of others does not do justice to where injustice is being felt. I do agree that we avoid DWWA but honest and straightforward conversation is what we are having here. And yes - it can be harsh without being insulting. We are all trying to spend our time adding data, and bios, sources, and photos to our family tree.

Which makes it all more so frustrating and even insulting is when there is no clear communication from above, not even on the status of possible amendments and / or the limits of what can be done.
So it's clear: there are no plans to change to the location of the categories section.

Jamie,

If you have any influence on changes,  the change that I believe is needed is that the  very small link to categories (now at the top of the biography) be made more visible.......  I'm usually pretty good at finding things but certainly missed this one.   I thought Categories had been eliminated from profiles because I didn't think to scroll down to the very bottom and I missed the new link.

Just my late opinion!    We were in the middle of a 700 mile move in April and May,  so I wasn't active in WikiTree!

63 Answers

+11 votes
So much better!  Thank you
by Amy Gilpin G2G6 Pilot (216k points)
+13 votes
Wow, that looks really clean now. And notice how the project box stands out on President Eisenhower's profile? I like the little link on the right so you can hop right down and see the categories.

Thanks for doing this.
by Natalie Trott G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
+85 votes

Sorry to dissent.  I wish they were not so far down.the page - they deserve more prominence than where they are currently situated- I was waiting for this to go live but didn't expect them that far down - I was wondering how I'd feel if they were to appear below the bio and sources.  

I recognize some felt categories were taking over on some profiles and pushed what they considered more important narrative content down below the fold (as they used to say in the newspaper era )... but to me they are highly productive tools and a large part of how I function.    

Even occupations are useful -- not to hypothetical curious future descendants - but now for active researchers - in dealing with large name studies and trying to see connections where crafts or professions are evidence or clues about family connections.

The change appears to disincentive the use of categories, and makes them less immediately useful.

I once suggested and would still like to see something different - a toggle button- which would allow the end user to hide or reveal categories.    I don't think it would be terribly difficult to implement, tho yes, somewhat more technical planning may be necessary to implement this.

Addendum:  I am editing here cause I am facing a glitch and can't simply add another comment on this thread - A question to Chris and team re: SEO -- if the default view showed the categories, then that is what the spiders and bots would catalog and SEO would be as it is... or if I have this wrong someone can clarify this point.  Even if this is turned off as a personal preference - the bots would be crawling the content as a non-member and would not have that option.

Addendum 2:   Another alternative I think would be nice is to scale down the category font to about the size of the new link that jumps you down to the category anchor.  If all categories stayed where they were but were rendered at the smaller size this of us with ailing vision such h as myself might not be super happy - but as one of them myself - I'd still be happier with it up at top though considerably smaller.   The scale of the categories link is probably the smallest I could handle.

Addendum 3:  Whether or not the bio and source section is long - the current placement is too far out of range (for categories) to be very useful.   Where else could they reasonably be placed?  A somewhat prominent place along the right hand column where DNA, Collaboration, Comments, then Research links are offered (in that order) could be the way to go.   I'd be happy if a Categories  block appeared after Collaboration and before Comments.    That way it would likely be "above the fold" - I think it could go in any position placed above comments really - but I can see that "Collaboration" as a value gives it a higher slot in that column .. and I don't want to get into a turf war with DNA folk, tho in my book I get more use from Categories than the DNA connections.  For my money those could be covered in a link in another tab - pretend I didn't say that -- but do consider the merit of a Category block in the right column as one of the first 3 items prior to Comments.

by Michael Maranda G2G6 Mach 7 (71.0k points)
Nick - I use the sticker to show immigrants, and that's still at the top.

Categories are there just for search purposes, usually I don't like to look at them when reading the bio.  This move is consistent with how Wikipedia is structured, but I would prefer to see the categories after sources, not at the very very bottom.  After sources that's just overhead stuff I don't pay attention to.  I really don't care how many steps from King George or whatever that profile is, so I stop reading by that point.

I've spent considerable time adding information to the categories and adding people to them---all with what I used to think was the goal of wikitree; to create/connect/collaborate. 

Casalvecchio

It seems now that the goal of wikitree has changed and we're more concerned about how pretty and shiny everything is versus how well it functions. 

The fundamental question is: Do you think I'm going to connect with MORE of my cousins by having the Casalvecchio category visible on top or by having it completely buried in a location where NO newbie is ever going to see it? 

If you think the answer (like I do) is that I will likely be connecting with fewer people (but look how nice the profile looks!)  then this change is a major negative--NOT an improvement

Hi, Nick --

Categories are generally intended to be used from the other direction. In other words, people will locate a profile because they went to a category page, and not, necessarily, the other way around.

I think it's more likely that anyone who is researching Casalvecchio di Puglia would come into WikiTree and search for that location within the categories. Since you have categorized the profiles for your ancestors who came from there, they will see the entire list of cousins and be able to go to any one of those profiles from the category page.

That said, it might be helpful for a few tweaks to be made to this change. For example:

  • make the [categories] link more prominent on the profile
  • enclose the categories in a boundary that will highlight them
  • move the list of categories to a location that's more meaningful
It seems to me that since the categories are information about the person, the person assigning a profile to a category should provide a reference/source that backs up the claim that profile belongs in said category. Since references/sources appear immediately after the Biography section and immediately before the Sources section in the wide left part of a profile page, it seems to me that a profile's categories should appear either before the Biography section (probably not a great idea) or before the Sources section.

Also, if the expectation is that anyone other then really serious WikiTree users will be assigning profiles to categories then the category notion needs to be really obvious. This is in some sense particularly true if the expectation is that "regular" people are going to be assigned to relatively mundane categories like farmer, doctor, etc. That's just not going to happen unless it is obvious that it should happen. Burying categories down in what amounts to the footnotes section doesn't do that.

On the other hand, if the intent / expectation is that categories are only used for really notable things like being a member of the Order of the Elephant (one of the categories that Ike is listed as being a member of) then it might make sense to hide them off at the bottom of the page where the typical WikiTree user is unlikely to encounter them very often.
Julie, I'm not sure what your experiences are, but what you are saying is diametric to mine. I can't think of a single connection I've made with someone who came to wiktree searching in categories...?...

What happens in my reality is that someone sees a NAME that is familiar in a google search etc....THEN they look at the wikitree profile...THEN they see the category...THEN they see the wealth of other information I have obviously wasted my time trying to create here.

THEN, hopefully, they are intrigued enough to contact me, join wikitree and begin their own collaborative journey here.
I just did a google search for Casalvecchio di Puglia---do you which page the Category here came up on?  I don't because I quit looking after FOUR pages......

Another quick search for Michelarcangelo Andreola and the ENTIRE first page returns nothing but wikitree links.....

Which seems most productive to you?

Hi Julie, yes I did.  Now I have found that if you click the [categories] box, have a look at the Category tags, then click [top] multiple times, when it comes to hitting the back arrow to go to a previous profile, it just jumps me up and down the profile I am on!  It also adds #categories or #top to the profile ID. Not ideal.

Since you took out the categories, take out the badges also.  They offer more clutter than the categories.  

I do not like the new move and think a toggle switch for both would be a better option.
I would agree that they are too far down. I was expecting them to be at end of the bio. That would make them more like WIkipedia.
I agree addendum 3. Categories would be better above DNA. DNA is only of relevance to relatives.

Also agree, the categories are not the problem as you hardly notice them, the project pictures and other pictures and flags are an issue.
+73 votes
That is definitely too far down. It wouldn't be so bad if the categories appeared above the "Invite / Cousin Bait / Tree & Tools" buttons, but now they look entirely disconnected from the profiles.

You might as well discourage use of categories altogether.
by Leif Biberg Kristensen G2G6 Pilot (208k points)
I would put them (if at all downwards) then above the links to the global tree. That way they are not THAT disconnected of the profile
+32 votes

As much as I really like that they don't clutter up the top of the Bio any more, they could be a bit disconcerting when there are more than a few. However, I agree with Leif in where I would prefer their placement (above the "Invite / Cousin Bait / Tree & Tools") over their becoming the red headed step children of Profiles. ;)

But LJ is just a pawn in the game of life.....  ;)

And the links (categories) and (top) are a bit small for my old eyes.

by LJ Russell G2G6 Pilot (218k points)
I agree.  Right after sources would be good.  This move is consistent with how Wikipedia works though, they have categories at the very bottom.
+10 votes

Is it possible that when you moved the categories it caused rootssearch to break?

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/806793/issues-with-rootsearch-and-familysearch

by Steven Tibbetts G2G6 Pilot (410k points)
edited by Steven Tibbetts

Seems that way!  "If is ain't broke don't fix it!"  Very frustrating.

angry

It's probably unrelated to the categories since it only seems to be a problem with familysearch.
+15 votes
On compact write-ups, this is a notable improvement.

For long entries, it becomes very hard to find. Especially so since it falls below the merge material (which most of use only rarely).  

Is it possible to have a Table of Contents link to Categories?
by Jim Wiborg G2G6 Mach 7 (76.0k points)
There is a link to the categories..look at Eisenhower's profile, above and to the far right of the project box. See the link to categories?
Appreciate your pointing that out. It does indeed help!
Not all profiles have project boxes.
The other option is to use ctrl-end (on Windows computers) to jump to the bottom of the page.  Then you're right there, no clicking or scrolling necessary.
+17 votes
I like the way things look now. It's now Biography focused and less cluttered, but I am in agreement with some of the others here that say they are too far down. Granted there is a clickable to be able go straight to them, but they are way at the end of nowhere land. I would rather see them at the end after sources, but that's just my opinion. In the least, it would be better if it were above the relationship finders and connections part.
by Misty Musco G2G6 Mach 2 (28.6k points)
+39 votes
Well, for me, I think this really ruins things for my Surname & DNA Projects as no longer at a glance can I see which Family line or DNA Group a profile belongs to.
by Chris Gilbert G2G6 Mach 3 (35.5k points)
I fully agree. I used to be keen to add placename categories because I found them useful where they were but  I doubt I will even bother using them any more because it just completely ruins it, being shoved at the bottom.
+15 votes
I sure did not see them at all at first, It will take some getting used to I guess
by Navarro Mariott G2G6 Pilot (167k points)
+11 votes
A big THANK YOU from the US Presidents Project and its members!!!!!
by Robin Lee G2G6 Pilot (862k points)
+51 votes

I agree with my fellow dissenters that the categories have been moved too far to be useful. In their current location, they seem too detached from the biography/main working area. In my opinion, they are essentially "Out of sight; out of mind."

At the very least, they seem hidden in their new location. If they are to remain in this location, could they be enclosed in a visibly-bordered bubble/box (with rounded corners, of course - or maybe surround them with devil emojis!)?


devildevildevildevildevildevildevildevil

Categories:

devildevildevildevildevildevildevildevil


See how much more noticeable they would be!!

by Lindy Jones G2G6 Pilot (256k points)
I disagree with you, but thanks for making me laugh! Love the devil emojis. :-)
I see that the new border -- in green -- has been adopted. I'd like to thank whoever is responsible, it does help a great deal. Again, I was personally in agreement with placing the categories at the bottom to match other wiki formats but felt that with the false matches and such the very bottom of the page was too much considering the clutter. (Which other wikis do not have in their formats.)
+18 votes
They’re a fer piece down, but in a better position. Would like to see a box of some kind around them.
by Pip Sheppard G2G Astronaut (2.7m points)
+14 votes

I'm happy with the new position of the categories at the bottom of profiles. In many cases it works just fine. However, I think we're going to run into problems with the site's page design as the years go by. A long list of Rejected Matches creates a great deal of white space to the left of it. See Robert Webster. On a Wikipedia page, the text runs all the way to the bottom of the page with the result that the categories don't feel like an afterthought.

After reading all the posts, I would vote for putting the categories at the top of the right hand column or above the Matches and Merges. If the profile is concise without any photos, DNA matches, etc., the new position is okay, but as I've said above, too much white space and they're lost.

by Laurie Cruthers G2G6 Pilot (166k points)
edited by Laurie Cruthers
+34 votes

I'm glad to see this change, but like others who posted here, I would much prefer to see the Categories appear before the Matches and Merges section (either at the bottom of the left-hand column or at the top of the section that spans both columns).

As others have noted, some pages have a ridiculous number of rejected matches (an example is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Martin-23874 -- which is actually a page where I once removed a lot of rejected matches, but there are still a lot left), and those lists create a situation where the category list is very far away from the rest of the profile content. 

Also, it bugs me that the list of categories falls below the "page footer" that identifies the page subject (in the case of the profile I linked, this is "M  >  Martin  >  George Martin").

It seems to me that the list of categories presents information about the person (not the only place it is presented, but still it's information about the person), while the "Matches and Merges" section and the Connection Finder links are content related to WikiTree administration. I'd like the list of categories to appear above that administrative content.

by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
Unfortunately, removing rejected matches just increases the likelyhood someone will try to merge them again. And if you don't catch it in 30 days they can just do it.
Well said Ellen.

Also, if many comments have been left on the Profile, this too makes for a long Profile.

And the argument is that we have these links to go to the bottom and then back to the top.  Neat trick, but this is more akin to opening a new tab for most Profiles and having to jump back and forth.  Raise your hand if you like doing that.

Again, I like that they are not the first thing I see on a Profile, but making them dead last is not really the best option.  There should have been test pages for folks to view and comment on before the decision was made.
Steven, I'm talking about situations where someone received a very long list of possible matches when they created a profile and marked all of them as rejected matches. For an extreme example, maybe they were profiling John Smith and they entered a death date but no birth date, so they got a list of everyone named John Smith (or Smiths with a middle name of John, or men named John Schmidt) whose profile had no death date. That creates ridiculously long lists of rejected matches between people who are obviously different people. And the only way to clear them out is to remove the ridiculous matches one at a time. (But if anyone who is reading this is interested in increasing your edit count quickly, this is one way to do it!)
There's also the facility to find matches on your watchlist.  This will produce a lot of long lists.  If you go through them, you have to reject them, or you'll be back to square 1 next time.
Ellen, I agree the placement presents a major issue with profiles with long lists of rejected matches and with some surnames that's just a fact of many profiles. As a new coordinator for a state I don't see the point, right now, in setting up a project that will rely on categories until the location issue is resolved. Everyone talks about the old(er) hands being fine with the change and the newer people will catch on. Well, this older hand finds himself just not making yet another click or scrolling aaaaalllllllll the way down to the bottom to check categories unless there is a very specific need to check them. Except in that instance it is out of sight, out of mind and that's not productive for WikiTree.

There are several placements that would be better for categories but it seems the driving decision behind this change and the new placement was Google search results. Just for whom are we doing all this volunteer research and work? It most certainly is not Google or their search results.
+19 votes
I am comfortable with moving the categories down, but have two small suggestions. First, for the link to the categories above the bio, is it possible to use a larger font? If someone is not over familiar with Wikitree, it would be easy for them to miss the link, so it’d be helpful if it had greater prominence. Categories are, after all, important. Second, I agree with all the comments suggesting that categories should go above Matches and Merges.
by Michael Cayley G2G6 Pilot (229k points)
I agree. The link to categories needs to be larger and/or bold and/or a different color -- SOMETHING to make it stand out.  Preferably just plain larger.
+19 votes
I am one of those who is very much 'for' this move.  Such a positive change to be able to see the beginning of the narrative instead of 20+ categories!

I was a little uncomfortable to see they had been moved quite so far down, though.  In fact, I had to go to the Edit tab to make sure they were there!  Couldn't they be moved so they are just above the Invite-Cousin Bait-Tree & Tools buttons - or, at the very least, above the Matches & Merges section?  Yes, I know about the [categories] link at the top, but where they are, they just look like a technical "don't look at me, I'm just background technology sneaking in".
by Ros Haywood G2G Astronaut (2.0m points)

"don't look at me, I'm just background technology sneaking in".

Exactly. Even though it's there, it's invisible.

+11 votes
I'm thrilled with this! Like Wikipedia, having the categories at the bottom mean that the focus is on the story of the person who is represented by the profile. I do agree with some others that they should be above the connection finder at the very least, however.
by Amelia Utting G2G6 Pilot (207k points)
+27 votes

When adding {{Unsourced|Place}} templates to profiles, this automatically assigns the profile to a maintenance category but without any warning if the category does not exist (true for any category automatically added by a template or sticker). With the categories no longer at the top (and actually way down) the red link signalling a missing category after saving is less obvious.

Is there a risk of this generating more Wanted Categories?

by Isabelle Martin G2G6 Pilot (567k points)

Wow! Isabelle, I hadn't thought of the RED ERROR OF DOOM when a non existing category is added to a Profile.

Oh yeah, this is going to be fun.  I am sure this will cause these errors to increase exponentially. 

LJ, the errors probably won't increase much because I suspect many of us will stop taking the trouble to add categories that hardly anyone will ever notice when they're buried in small print all the underneath all the page footers.  If that is where they will continue to be displayed, I don't see any reason to bother adding them to profiles any more.
Sadly Gaile, I believe you are correct and this will have the opposite effect that Chris spoke of in this posting.  I see this akin to the enacting of Prohibition to stop drinking in the US.  Rather it made over 50% of the American population criminals during the term of its enactment and was the foci for the growth of organized crime from local hoodlums to an organization rivaling some of America's largest corporations in scope and earnings. Prohibition was meant to stop an activity and didn't.  This action is meant to increase an activity and more than likely will curtail it. Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it.  LOL

I personally am going to mull this over for the next few days before I make any decision on my further participation on the creation, updating or adding of any categories to Profiles.  At this point, I am leaning towards non participation as I believe this course they have chosen has basically made Categories superfluous.

While I am in total agreement that their position at the top of the Biography section of a Profile could be disconcerting when there where many.  This jumping back and forth from top to bottom to me is aggravating to say the least.  There should be a heading ==Categories== above ==Sources== where they would then be placed and in a position that easier for the viewer to find and use.

Googles spiders may be happier with this new positioning, but I am not. This is WikiTree, not Wikipedia!!!!!!
+14 votes
This made my life more confusing and complicated today when I added a cemetery category, but I realize that you not only didn't create Wikitree for me, you don't really care if I care about the changes.  Humans are infinitely adaptable, so we will adapt.
by J. Crook G2G6 Pilot (229k points)
Went and looked at a few of my profiles, and I think I'll probably stop using categories altogether. By sticking them at the bottom, you demonstrate that they are irrelevant.
I'm leaning that way too.  But I am going to give it thought for a few days.

I had a list of over 300 Categories I was going to clean up and add sources to over the summer.  Not sure if it is worth my time an effort now.

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