Category Title for Filles du Roi? French or English?

Question

With the interest of many WikiTreers (including George Blanchard, who is doing a lot of work in the category), we are going to be opening up a Filles du Roi project early next week. George has brought up the point that WikiTreers were inconsistent in category use for this group of women, and we need to narrow it down to one category that the project can recommend and enforce. The forerunners are:

"Filles du Roi / The King's Daughters" (French and English)

or

"Filles du Roi" (French only)

Benefits of "Filles du Roi / The King's Daughters" :

* Multilingual means it gets different (more?) Google hits than "Filles du Roi" alone

* May be easier for English speakers to find because many Canadians know them as "the Filles du Roi or King's Daughters."

Benefits of "Filles du Roi" (French only):

* English wasn't used in New France, so it fits in with WikiTree's policy on using the language the people themselves used.

* Many Canadians and genealogists researching Quebec understand the term "Filles du Roi" without English translation, and "Filles du Roi" is easier to type and remember.

Please weigh in on this so we can get all of these profiles in one category going forward!

(To be transparent, my preference is for the French alone.)

Comments

It is Filles-du-Roi. Pain or not those hyphens are a mainstay of the French language. This also applies to churches and place names. It's purpose is to indicate it's all one word.

This also applies to their predecessors,  "Les-Filles-à-Marier".

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Nathalie, this is an old post from 2014. The category is here:https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Filles_du_Roi

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no hyphens please, don't know where they come from, but bad grammar.

Answer 1

I agree that it should be just in French. Technically we now have the ability to have the same categories in multiple languages, so we could have both Category:Filles du Roi and Category:The King's Daughters. But I don't think that's really necessary in this case.

Also, having the English and French in the same category name, like Category:Filles du Roi / The King's Daughter, is not supported by any of the category standards we currently use.

Comments

"...we now have the ability to have the same categories in multiple languages..."

Please explan.

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A while back, we changed the way we handle categories in other languages. While we used to say that categories should always be in the native language, that got complicated with multilingual regions, not to mention not all categories are linked in any way to a language.

So, we (the Categorization Project) decided that it was better to have parallel category structures in multiple languages. This means that English speakers can create any categories in English, and people who speak other languages can create categories in their languages. Then categories that are equivalents in two languages are linked to each other. For example, see Category:Europe (en). All the subcategories there are European countries named in English. Near the top of the page are links to the categories for Europe in Finnish, French, German, Italian, and Spanish.

Answer 2

If it's generally the policy to use the language/spelling of the people involved, then it would follow that we should be using, in this case, Filles du Roi

Answer 3

Subsequent to my queries on G2G regarding categories and Filles du Roi; I contacted the originators of category page Filles du Roi and category page Filles du Roi / The King's Daughters to collaborate on consolidation of these pages. The originator of the former did not reply, the latter did. Consequently, we worked together with her Filles du Roi / The King's Daughters page.

My objective in this endeavor is vividly evident in the contents of the resultant category page. Whichever name is chosen for the project matters to me in only one regard. If the name changes from its present designation, someone will have to transfer everything over to the new category's page, revise the category links on the profile pages, and some other housekeeping issues.

I would gladly do the revisions.

Answer 4

"Filles du roi" is well established, even on English speaking sites dealing with that matter, and would keep the name simpler. I'm for French only.

Answer 5

Hi,

I set up the Filles du Roi / The King's Daughters category.  I have no problem with making it just Filles du Roi.  I included "The King's Daughters" only because I had often seen it referred to only as that and since I hadn't been able to find either a Filles du Roi category or a King's Daughters category at the time (I'm not sure if the other one was set up then and I just missed it somehow or if it was set up afterwards), I covered both bases.

Like I said though I don't mind making it only Filles du Roi.  I do have a question for the French speakers though.  I sometimes see it spelled Filles du Roy. In fact my best source for images of the marriage contracts, etc. uses that spelling.  I believe the official spelling is Roi since that is what La Societe des Filles du Roi et Soldats du Carignan, Inc. uses and agree we should use that spelling.  My question is regarding the usage "Roy"; is that incorrect or just a variant?

As I've discussed with George, real life has been a distraction lately, but I did add my most helpful and reliable sources to the category page but will probably be of limited additional help unless contacted directly.  What time I have been able to spend on genealogy has been devoted to my German side of the family which has been long neglected and has only been traced back a few generations at best.

I am happy to see that the Filles du Roi are receiving more attention here on wikitree.

Comments

in those year, the spelling was different from one person to other one. The people just write by what they ear. Some write Roy ,Roi. Blais, Blaye, Madeleine, Magdeleine.

 

The rigth writing in french is roi.   But people name is writing Roy

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some people speak or write in the old french , it was called  the OC language

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If we are to respect the language of the time, it should be french only, "Fille du roi".

In old french, "roi" was written "roy". For further understanding, here after is a citation from Wikipédia also translated to english:

Le mot roi est le singulier et roy le pluriel, comme pour les prénoms tels que Henri. Le roi Henri signant un acte officiel, il est fait usage du pluriel magestatif et le texte dira Nous Henry roy de France...; il en est de même pour le patronyme qui désigne une pluralité de personnes: la famille Henry.

Translation: The word roi (king) is the singular and roy (kings)the plural, as for first names such as Henri. The roi Henri signing and official act, the stately plural is used and the text will say Nous Henry roy de France (We Henry king of France)...; it is so with the patronyme that designates a number of persons: the Henry family.

In the case of "Filles du roi", they became such under the reign of Louis XIV only, just one "king". Therefore, the spelling should be "roi", not "roy".

This is just my opinion.

 

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Thanks.  I was only asking about the possible reasons somebody else would have used "Roy" and now I understand, thanks to Robert Blais, that the website authors must be using old French or the OC language.

 

I was not suggesting in any way that we use that spelling.  "Roi" is clearly the correct spelling for a number of reasons.

 

The only time I will use "Filles du Roy" is when creating a citation to that particular website since it is the spelling of their title as in 

 

Actes de mariage des Filles du Roy

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L'Académie française a adopté l'orthographe « roi » en 1740 : c'est dire si le port du y est passé de mode

The French Académie adopted the spelling 'roi' in 1740; ie the use of 'y' went out of fashion.

In actual fact, it has no relevance to singular or plural, Roy is old French, and from it have been kept such terms as royal, royauté and so on.  Until the French Académie started imposing spellings, French was as lackadaisical as any other language in how things were spelled.

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I have a photo copy of a baptismal record from 1792 in France. It had a required official stamp, which stated LE LOI LE ROI, or the law of the King. So ROi was in use at that date. This was because of some royal Stamp Act much like the one that upset the American colonies, and it was just prior to the overthrowing of the French monarchy.

Sharon

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Danielle, in 2013 they did celebrate 350 years of "Filles du roy", as in 1663 it was written "roy". The source is the French Wikipedia article "Filles du roi".

Both are correct, "Filles du roi" is more usual as roy is really old French.