Why does the ANZAC sticker for 2nd Boer War show the Vietnam era sunburst?

+5 votes

The category/sticker {{ANZAC|Second Boer War}} shows the Vietnam era Rising Sun Sixth Pattern


instead of the more correct 


or even the less correct, later in 1902, Commonwealth Horse


(although that would not cover those in the Mounted Infantry, the Mounted Rifles, the Imperial Bushmen, the Australian Army Medical Corps (Second Boer War),  the Citizen's Bushmen, and the Lancers)


Anything AFTER 1902, such as the Vietnam era burst, is absolutely incorrect.


Also, strictly speaking, we weren't ANZACs until the Great War, 1914, when formed in Egypt.  (I'm not about to "debate" this as a point, though.)


If Tech isn't the correct place for this, I apologise.  It didn't seem to fit anywhere else, as this is more a "bug report" than any general query.

(EDITED to add ANZACs tag.)

in WikiTree Tech by Melanie Paul G2G6 Pilot (244k points)
edited by Melanie Paul

Also .. the page https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Anzacs%2C_Second_Boer_War  says it is a category, but it places a sticker. 

The sticker/category {{ANZAC|World War One|AU}} is another such. (WWII as well.)

As we are limited in the number of stickers per profile, is there any real point in adding these category-plus-sticker whatsits to profiles .. especially as we may have already placed the limit of stickers?



Because, I have to admit, I am even less enamoured of these things since almost every "category" (or sticker) I had that had been correct when placed threw up errors recently.  I pretty much removed them all (except the babies .. and even those have been changed since I last checked) and swore off adding more (except the babies).  The problem with swearing off is that I then cannot link with their fellows those I am attempting to properly honour for their service.

These were all correct before they changed to stickers, I found  all the correct rising sun images for the templates, way back when I started the Anzac project, it looks like they use the one image now that it’s stickers
The Great War (misnamed WWI) sticker/category shows the correct sunburst.  (I haven't checked the Second World War one yet, as I'd need to find a profile I stuck it on where I didn't already remove it.)

I'd just rather keep my hair than tear it out over these things.
A superior philosophy.
I am less enamoured of stickers day by day.
I am less enamoured of stickers day by day.


I like stickers.  I don't like when they change and throw bugs or no longer say what you used them for when you added them.  I would use captioned images more if I could get them to "sit right".

 It's categories that apply a sticker that can be annoying, because you may have worked out your sticker use and placement, then add categories and you now have more stickers.



I was wanting to add the Boer War one to some profiles, but I will not do it while it is incorrect.

Categories don't apply stickers; stickers apply categories when there is a parameter set up that way.
So, I have removed them from the current profile.

But that doesn't answer why the image is the wrong one.
I really don't mean to be pushy, but how long does it usually take for something like this to get fixed (or, at least, a response)?
There are two primary people right now handling templates, Me and Aleš. Depending on our schedules, we may miss a day or so, but we get caught up. As I mentioned below, I am looking into this now.
Ok, thank you.  :)
Have we obtained permission to use these emblems from the Army?

4 Answers

+4 votes

Thanks for raising this, Melanie.  We ought to get it right.  We're genealogists after all.  Not only is the sixth pattern incorrect for the Second Boer War, it is incorrect for ANY war as it was never fully issued.  Vietnam used the fifth pattern.  See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:The_Australian_Army.  Both world wars used the same pattern, the third.  Korea used the fourth pattern.  Could somebody with the tech knowledge please allow the different Rising Sun patterns for each war?

by Kenneth Evans G2G6 Pilot (136k points)
I got lost in trying to find the correct pages.  It ain't easy to work through the maze.
Looking into this now.

Boer War currently uses the second pattern, what should it use?

The sunburst you have there is limited to the Commonwealth Horse (says it right on the burst) .. which, as I mentioned in my OP, does not cover those in the Mounted Infantry, the Mounted Rifles, the Imperial Bushmen, the Australian Army Medical Corps (Second Boer War),  the Citizen's Bushmen, and the Lancers.

I don't know what emblem was used prior to 1901, when we Federated (basically "became" Australia), but the earliest sunburst in 1902 is


as is on this page https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Australian_Army%2C_Second_Boer_War

I was showing what is being used now, which is the second pattern... I know it is incorrect - I just don't know what to replace it with.
What was showing when I posed the question was the Vietnam era burst, not the one you just posted.

Now I'm all kinds of confused.

1st pattern aka https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/7/7f/Military_Badges_and_Insignia-21.png

(image page needs to be corrected from !st to 1st .. am I allowed to do that?)

Prior to 1901 the Colonies each used their own badges.  For the purpose of the supposed Boer War ANZACs we should simply use pattern 2 Rising Sun.
+5 votes

"Also, strictly speaking, we weren't ANZACs until the Great War, 1914, when formed in Egypt.  (I'm not about to "debate" this as a point, though.)"

I'm willing to debate this, Melanie.  We're genealogists, seeking fact; not general media seeking a good yarn.  ANZAC has been confused with Digger.  Aussie soldiers are Diggers always and only ANZACs when part of an official combined AU / NZ force.  Our ANZAC Project (of which I am a member, so am too at fault) has extended itself well beyond its mandate into every war.

by Kenneth Evans G2G6 Pilot (136k points)
I'm just as guilty of post Great War naming us as ANZACs.  I just can't do it before we were.  It's all kinds of wrong (in a different way than when we're not a joint force).

I'm just not willing to debate the issue with those "in charge" of the Military and War department here.  I get shot down every time I try to right a wrong (so to speak) and am too tired to keep on fighting.

I just want to honour "my" guys, those who signed up prepared to give their lives for what they believed was right.  (And right now I'm trying to figure out just how to present someone who did just that, was wounded TWICE on Gallipoli, but was CM and dismissed without even a medal to recognise his service.)

I'd like to keep adding categories so the profiles I do can be linked to/with their "fellows", but am no longer sure of what is correct and what is likely to be changed, so am only using basics.  I'm removing (or just not adding) the categories that are stickers that add categories, unless I have no other stickers in use for that profile, because sometimes, to highlight things to one side just cannot be done if the category whatsit is also there .. and I like to highlight for those who skim-read.

(Edited to close a parenthesis I missed.)
The reason every war was included in the ANZAC project was because of ANZAC day where Military personnel from every war is included. We all know the original ANZAC’s  were at Gallapoli, the only way this could be changed is if you had a project for every war, and they already have that in the Military and War project. As there are no longer any WWl diggers left the spirit and what it meant has now been passed on to all ex service  and current serving Military personnel to honour and celebrate their service and sacrifice

Melanie you can add your profiles to the Roll of Honor tables 

Thanks for your explanation, Terry.  However, wrong is wrong and we're, firstly, genealogists seeking correct information.  The project could just as easily be called Aussie Diggers and it would then be correct.  The media-driven ANZAC commemoration is actually creating a wedge between ANZAC Day and Remembrance Day (originally Armistice Day), which was until recently the more well-known of the two events (just no public holiday).  We've even taken the Flanders Poppy (grows wild in Flanders and to do with the Armistice) into ANZAC Day at the expense of a sprig of rosemary (grows wild at Gallipoli and traditionally the remembrance symbol of ANZAC Day).
+3 votes

Alright, this is now updated and the examples fully expanded. If there are any other tweaks, let me know!


by Steve Harris G2G6 Pilot (387k points)
Thanks, Steven.

Thank you, Steven.  Very much.

(I'm not sure the 5th pattern (1954) should be for "unspecified wars" .. because that locks out anything past 1954 .. but am equally unsure that the current (7th pattern) should be the one used there.  For that I'll defer to others.)

Is there  nothing for the modern wars? (Falklands? Gulf wars? (7th pattern would definitely fit those.))  Or do they fall under "unspecified"?  If so, then 7th pattern would be a better "fit" than 5th, in my opinion. (Someone else may have a better idea.)

What are we calling 'unspecified wars'? I've never heard the phrase.  Any war since Vietnam, i.e., 1970 onwards would use seventh pattern.  For those wars between the Second World and Vietnam they used the same as Korea.  Sixth pattern was never fully issued and therefore should not be used for any war.
It's what is on the page Steven linked.
So 3rd pattern (aka what was used for both world wars) would be Malaya (although there is no sticker for this) .. and the "unspecified" would be 7th pattern aka current, yes?

Because if the 5th pattern currently in the place for the "unspecified" wars is incorrect, Steven needs to know to change it to 7th.

(Thanks, Kenneth, for weighing in on this.)
We can also expand the parameters to accept more wars to combat this issue... I would just need to know what to add and what image/category to use.

Thank you, again, Steven.  It is very much appreciated.

Apparently there is more than one Boer War whatsit (don't know if I should call it a sticker or a category, or a category-sticker, or a category setter).

I found these in use on profiles: {{ANZAC|Second Boer War}} and {{ANZAC|Second Boer War|AU}}

Both of them are using the incorrect 1954 5th Pattern burst (or that's what was showing when I checked).



(I am sorry to be such a trouble.)

Also, is there any way to have it say ANZAC (on the display) instead of Anzac?  (If not, I'll suffer in (future) silence.)

Steven, I wouldn't worry about adding stickers for either the Malayan Emergency or Indonesian Confrontation.  Although wars, both would struggle to gain many profiles as they were smaller affairs.  Same with the Iraq War or War in Afghanistan.  If you do decide to add them, the former two would use the Rising Sun pattern 4 (as for Korea) and the latter two Rising Sun pattern 7.  I've tried to explain it on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:The_Australian_Army

  • The template category of the second boer war should actually be removed. We (New Zealand) sent our 10 volunteer contingents separate to your (Australian) deployed colonial units. 
  • Given that the basis for the Anzacs, Korean War category is due to the wikipedia article about Australia's involvement in the War (which has NO mention at all of the ANZAC name) this should also be removed.
I fully agree, Richard.
+7 votes

There were no ANZACs in the Boer War.  The term wasn't coined until 1915.  See https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclopedia/anzac/acronym for information on ANZACs.

by Deborah Talbot G2G6 Mach 4 (49.2k points)
Totally agree, Deborah.

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