We cannot find source of Felipe/Casilda as parents of J. Domingo Romero, Santa Fe, NM. Help?

+3 votes
153 views
WikiTree profile: Juan Domingo Romero
in Genealogy Help by Steve Archuleta G2G5 (5.6k points)
Is J. Domingo’s profile Domingo-1453?
I do not know how to find Domingo-1453 yet... barely 24+ hours on Wikitree.  I will let you know.  The issue is always that there at least 4-6 Juan Domingo or Domingo Romero in the same 20+/- year generation, in the same Santa Cruz-Santa Fe region.  If this Domingo-1453 is in the family group of Antonio Romero de Pedraza, then it is not my ancestor.  That Domingo marries Lugarda Montoya, my Domingo marries Maria Antonio Cordova.  Thank you for responding.

Steve

I always struggle when trying to find a person by the profile number. This is the link for Romero-1453

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Romero-1453

Sorry for the late response... and thanks for looking that up. 1453 is not my ancestor.  My Domingo Romero married Maria Antonia Cordova in Santa Cruz-Santa Fe and lived there as well.  1453 is one of about 4-5 Domingo Romero's that I know of so far living in the same area in roughly the same time frame. 1453 comes up often during searches/research, but he married a woman named Barbara Torrez.  My guy remains a frustrating puzzle and mystery before (origin/parents) he married Antonia and had two kids in the 1770's.

8 Answers

+3 votes
Hi Steven, you given us your profile not the profile of J Domingo Romero
by Marion Poole G2G Astronaut (1.0m points)
Brand new to wikitree.. don't understand. I am asking about the profile page that is already on wikitree, I did not post it, I am asking about the sourcing for what I saw when I first looked at the profile.  My genealogy group had previously explored the parents (Felipe/Casilda) in the wiki profile, and we could find no evidence to verify this.  I was hoping that the people who did the current wiki-profile, could help us with the sourcing the parents he/she has for Juan Domingo Romero.
+4 votes
You may be able to provide time frame years, such as birth year, marriage year and death year for one or more of the three individuals you are asking about.

There are many named Felipe Romero but what his his birth year and marriage year. What does the J stand for in Domingo's name? When was he born?
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.1m points)
Thanks, response appreciated.  We have all that specific information of Felipe.  It is more of a question of if Felipe/Casilda are his parents.  My genealogy group and the staff at the Great NM Pedigree Project (GNMPD) cannot source verify that family group,  We & GNMPD have Juan Domingo's parents as 'unknown.' I hope to change that by finding, sourcing and verifying his parents. We have his marriage, even his children's marriages, but we cannot find Juan Domingo's origins as to parents and birth,.
+4 votes
Juan Domingo De La Trinidad Romero was born 03 Jun 1763 Christening Place was San Francisco De Asis Cathedral, Santa Fe, Santa Fe, New Mexico

Father's name is Domingo Romero and Mother's name is Lugarda Montolla

"New Mexico Births and Christenings, 1726-1918," database, FamilySearch
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.1m points)
Thank you for looking into this so fast!  We have identified at least 4-6 Juan Domingo Romero's in the Santa Cruz-Santa Fe area 1740-1780.  My/Our ancestor married Maria Antonia Cordova.  The one you found, married Luthgarda.  Two different Juan Domingo Romero's.  There is also a Domingo Romero in the family of Antonio Romero that we explored, but he married someone else as well.  The family group that has stymied us for years is Juan Domingo Romero, wife Maria Antonia Cordova, Son Jose Rafael, daughter Maria Encarncion.  We cannot find records/sources of Domingo's parents, or the birth/baptism records of the children.  We have very good source documents starting with the children's marriages. It has been a brick wall and a hole in our family genealogy tree for about two decades,  I want to solve the puzzle that has confounded us.
There is also another Domingo Romero in the exact same time generation, in the same location, who married a Barbara Torrez.  Again, not our Maria Antonia Cordova.
Is there a way for you and I and Mr. Tandy to have a genealogy discussion. on the Romero's... especially, but just about Juan Domingo.  I would love to have the three of us somehow connected for about an hour to allow me to present the genealogy and the problem/wall we have encountered.  Jose Domingo has been so elusive that he has defeated people in our family doing our genealogy for well over a decade.  The staff at GNMPD has been looking into it for only about six months, but they hit the same decades-old wall that has been our pain and bane for than a decade.  I WILL be the one to solve this puzzle knot. I WILL be the one who ends decades of genealogy frustration-- even if I have to give all the praise and glory so someone else.  I cannot figure out how to do a private personal msg on wikitree yet so I will ask you to initiate that. Maybe we can set up a 3-person SKYPE of something similar:    Steve Archuleta
+3 votes
Juan Domingo Romero was christened 10 September 1882 at Holy Cross Catholic, Santa Cruz, Santa Fe New Mexico Parents are Cruz Romero and Rosaria Fernandez

Another Juan Domingo Romero was christened 24 Jun 1761 and christened at San Francisco De Asis Cathedral, Santa Fe, New Mexico. Parents are Santiago Domingo and Getrudis Romero
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.1m points)
Wow... thank you for your response. I appreciate that you jumped right on my question/query.  This could have been right, except it is in the wrong generation, 1882 is too late,  My ancestor married Maria Antonia Cordova in 1773 in Santa Cruz Santa Fe.  The two children, we think, were (already) born in the 1770's. We have found records that indicate that there were two babies born in Santa Fe named Juan Domingo Romero where the parents names were not on the record.  That is my fear.
The 2nd one (1761) is new to our genealogy group... many years of searching and tracing and we somehow missed that one.  Awesome! A  new lead!  I/we will trace this family down over the next day or two.Might be a little late for a 1773 marriage With Antonia which we have record confirmation of (makes him 12 years old). That brings the total of Juan Domingo Romero's up to 5-6. during this time frame in this location.   The key will be who this 1761 Juan Domingo married when he grew up.
Would this help?  We know (record sourced) that wife Maria Antonia Cordova was baptized in 1755. We know that she married Juan Domingo Romero in 1773 (records source) making her about 18 when married.  If her husband was in the same generation 18-25 year old range, Domingo would have been born roughly 1745-1755. We have records of Maria Antonia Cordova's family/parents. We have nothing on Domingo's family/parents that we can prove-verify with good sourcing.  After Domingo died, Maria Antonia stayed in Santa Cruz-Santa Fe, she married Jose Antonio Archuleta in 1789. They lived in Santa Cruz and had a family of their own,
+4 votes

Hi Steven and welcome to WikiTree!

We have a Juan Domingo Romero from Taos, whose father was Felipe but his mother was not Casilda.  Is that the person you asked about?  If not, please post a link to his profile.

You must have clicked the 'Ask a Question' button from your own profile.  That's why the question only links back to you.

by Herbert Tardy G2G6 Pilot (571k points)

Thank you for looking into this so fast!  We have identified at least 4-6 Juan Domingo Romero's in the Santa Cruz-Santa Fe area 1740-1780.  My/Our ancestor married Maria Antonia Cordova.  Another Juan Domingo Romero married a Luthgarda. There is also a Domingo Romero in the family of Antonio Romero that we explored, but he married someone else as well. A third different Romero married a Barbara Torrez.  We explored a Romero family in Taos that had the parental names of Domingo & Antonia on a baptism for a daughter named Maria Encarncion, but the name did not match for the brother.  As far as we can tell with census and marriage records my Romero ancestor family lived in Santa Cruz-Santa Fe for both the parents and the children's generation... both children later married in Santa Cruz-Santa Fe and had families there.  When Juan Domingo died around 1788, his wife Antonia remarried in Santa Cruz-Sante Fe and raised the children in her 2nd (Archuleta) family there. 2-3 generations at the very least, probably more stayed in Santa Cruz-Santa Fe.  THANK YOU for your response.

Each time you post, you reveal a little bit more that might help us help you.  As you might have noticed, none of us responding to your question is an expert on this family.  We're just volunteers trying to help you out, with the disadvantage of starting out cold on a problem you have been studying for a long time.

Let's back up a bit.  In your response to Marion Poole's answer, you referred to a profile for Juan Domingo Romero that already exists on WikiTree.  I have not been able to find him on WikiTree.  We could all get up to speed if you would direct us to that profile, and we might be able to put you in touch with the member who connected his parents.

If Juan's profile does not in fact already exist on WT, I urge you to create one and add to it all the info and sources you have.  It would also be a good idea to build profiles for his wife and children.  That would provide a solid context and a starting point for a productive discussion.
Sorry, but it did not come right up for me.  No doubt that indicates an intellectual shortcoming on my part.  If you'd rather not reveal the WikiTree ID (at the end of the profile URL, looks like Surname-####) or post a link to Juan Domingo's profile, that's fine with me.  Good luck to you.
I don't think you found a profile page for Juan Domingo Romero.  Profile pages are never taken down or deleted from WikiTree, so nothing has disappeared.  The link you posted is Archuleta-235, which is your own profile.  The blocks of text you posted are not WikiTree profiles.

Just guessing, you might have been looking at a GEDCOM file upload with that data for Juan Domingo and Felipe Sandoval Romero.  As far as I know, the only GEDCOM file you could look at is one you uploaded, and that data is not part of the shared Tree yet.  Maybe you started the GEDCompare process?
I did put the ged.com my genealogy group has done on wikitree when I started.  But that is not my gedcom. It is missing people that I know to be in mine. Since that is the first thing I saw when I search on wiki-tree for Juan Domingo Romero, fool that I am I naturally assumed that is what a page looks like.  I started out with high hopes for Wikitree, but after only 24hrs I am ready to jump ship. I was looking for stuff, like we all are, but I also felt I could contribute... my family genealogy group has been doing genealogy research on our ancestors for over 20 years. I am just the next in line following some very good, dedicated genealogy researchers.  We, as a family genealogy group could have provided some very good, well-sourced genealogy.  Now I am not sure if I will recommend Wiki-Tree to my family groups.  I will wait a few days so that the 'sting' of feeling like a fool wears off.  Thank you for your time and responses.
No worries, Steven.  WikiTree makes fools of us all at some point.  In a few days, no one will remember.  You jumped into the deep water on your first day, with Spanish colonial ancestors and GEDCOMs.

I think you will have a better experience going forward if you take some time to learn the site.  Just a suggestion - build a few profiles manually, beginning with your parents and grandparents, to learn how to make connections and add sources.  Before long you will work your way back to an ancestor who already has a profile, you add that person as a parent, and you're connected to the shared Tree.  Stick with it, and I think you'll find it very satisfying.  G2G is always here to help when you get stuck.
You were right... your experience helped.  When I searched on Juan Domingo Romero, the website pulled up my own gedcom, the one I had just uploaded.  Turns out it was a bad upload, it spliced sections off, people/ancestors missing that I have no clue as to why.  I now have to delete the bad gedcom off of Wikitree, try to upload it again, and hope it comes out whole instead of spliced.  I will look at creating my first profiles after that.  Our family's Spanish Colonial history (Spain/NM/Colo)has been deeply and carefully researched and sourced by members of my Romero/Archuleta family for decades... I hope that what I add/contribute to WikiTree in the future will be helpful/beneficial to many others researching the same.
Mr. Tardy... very much appreciated your comments. Letting you know that I have done my father's paternal/maternal genealogy line on Wiki-tree as far as a newbie of less than a week is allowed to do. Left a note on Juan Domingo's profile that parents are unknown as of June 2019.  My mother's genealogy is Irish, might start on that in a few days.

Steve, that's great news!  Your current credentials allow you to create or edit profiles for anyone born after 1700.  Did you get that far back without finding any of your ancestors already here?

You can continue with older profiles by qualifying for the pre-1700 badge.  I don't think you will have any trouble with it!

Yes... Both my Archuleta & Romero ancestor genealogy lines were new to WikiTree. up to the 1700's.  When I can move past that date I will be able to take the Archuleta line back to 1598 Ornate NM expedition and to the family's original hometown in Spain before that.  The Romero line will of course stop in Juan Domingo's generation until we can identify and verify his parents.  It will be interesting to find out if my mother's Irish Connor line, extremely well researched already, will come up in WikiTree when I get started on it.
Mr. Tandy...  Is there a way for you and I and Mr. Gill to have a genealogy discussion. on the Romero's... especially, but just about Juan Domingo?  I would love to have the three of us somehow connected for about an hour to allow me to present the genealogy and the problem/wall we have encountered.  Jose Domingo has been so elusive that he has defeated people in our family doing our genealogy for well over a decade.  The staff at GNMPD has been looking into it for only about six months, but they hit the same decades-old wall that has been our pain and bane for more than a decade.  I WILL be the one to solve this puzzle knot. I WILL be the one who ends decades of genealogy frustration-- even if I have to give all the praise and glory to someone else.  I cannot figure out how to do a private personal msg on wikitree yet so I will ask you to initiate that.  Maybe we can set up a 3-person SKYPE of something similar:    Steve Archuleta
Steve, please don't post your e-mail on G2G, unless you really love spam!  Anyone who wants to reach you can send you a PM.

I don't know who Mr Tandy is, but I work in Albuquerque.  I also don't know nothin' 'bout no skype.  It might be possible to meet IRL.  Moment of Managing Expectations: Some questions don't have answers.
Very sorry for the mis-spelling of your last name, my bad, your good to call me on it.  I mentioned Skype as a possible means to talk about the genealogy wall we've hit only because it is free if you have a camera on laptop or computer. Have only used it one time in a decade myself but I keep it in mind because of one of my few rules in life... 'if it's free, its for me.'
+2 votes
Domingo Romero married Maria Antonia Cordoba 30 Jan 1773 at Santa Cruz, Santa Fe, New Mexico

"New Mexico Marriages, 1751-1918," database, FamilySearch

Parents names not shown on this record.
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.1m points)
YES! That is them. If they were both in the same generation.. We are thinking that Domingo was born 1745-1759. She was 18, that would put him in from 18-25 +/-.  We are thinking that both were born & raised there, we have record evidence that both children stayed there and raised their own children there.

Here is the link for the marriage record https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DX-8FQR?i=61&cat=401297 The record does not name the parents.

The matrimonial investigation should have this information. Do these records exist? They are not on Family Search. Perhaps were not filmed?

I have a relative in my genealogy group that does really well in finding matrimonial investigations and original church records and documents. I will send this to her and ask her to follow up.  José Esquibel Romero has also done some outstanding published Romero genealogy, we will look there as well.  THANK YOU.

I have done a lot of work with the Aguascalientes, Asunción de Maria parish, matrimonial information records. So I have a sense of what they can provide. I have posted my work at the Nuestros Ranchos website. You would need to be a member to see them, but membership is free.

Nuestros Ranchos focuses on the Los Altos region of Aguascalientes, Jalisco, and Zacatecas. I think some of the early New Mexico families have roots there. This is the link http://www.nuestrosranchos.com/

I'm struggling with the handwriting, but I think the record shows the bride's parents Jph Cordova y Pascuala Martin.  Unless they were witnesses?
If they are the brides parents it should say something like “Maria Antonia Córdoba hija lejitima de Jph Córdoba ...” but it reads “Maria Antonia Córdoba y Jph Córdoba ...” ; in other records the brides parents are sometimes clearly named. Perhaps the clerk in his haste left out or did not complete the words.

Sponsors are sometimes named in the register, and when they are the term “padrinos” is used before their names, but this term is absent from this record. But, the word could have been left out.

So, who Joseph Córdoba and Pascuala Martín are is uncertain.
We have them identified as the parents using other primary sources.  Good & Interesting that you are finding the original Church documents.
OK, if this establishes the right marriage of the right two people, does it suggest Domingo was older than expected?  Is there any significance that the record mentions Antonia's parents but not Domingo's?  I can't make out the words preceding Domingo's name, and I wonder if a full transcription might shed some light.   Is it possible that this Domingo is an older, known Domingo, previously ruled out on the basis of age?  Maybe a second marriage for him?  A widower remarrying a much younger woman would be fairly common.
Wow... that is a fresh thought in a stale search.  We only know for a fact when he married Antonia (son & daughter).  We know Antonia was a widow in 1788, she married again in 1799. If 30 when married in 1773, Domingo's birth would be 1743, if 40, 1733. That would seem to open the door to the possibility of a prior marriage in the 1760's.                         My genealogy group has also tried to find info on Domingo that could be recorded on his children's birth and baptism records (Maria Encarncion & Jose Rafael), but their records have eluded us as well.  We know both children married and raised children in Santa Cruz-Santa Fe, but strangely like their father, they are also a mystery for us prior to their marriages.  This particular generation, father & kids has frustrated some in our group for about 20 years.
Mr. Tardy Please DELETE and forget you ever saw the census record I just sent you on 6/11.  It is 100% wrong, and I am embarrassed that I made such a bad, dumb rookie mistake after doing genealogy for five years.

What Census record?  wink

The usgenweb project has a 1750 census for the Santa Fe, NM area BOTH City & County.  I hope that you or OTHERS on Wikitree could find it of value someday when doing NM research. Hopefully helping the Community,  The url is: http://files.usgwarchives.net/nm/santafe/census/1750/.  

This 2nd url has Santa Fe NM City & County Census archives/records for these years  1693/  1750/  1826/ 1850/  1860/ 1870/1930/   

http://files.usgwarchives.net/nm/santafe/census/              

Researching on the Romero's... Bartolome was a conquistador soldier in Ornate's 1598 Collinization Expedition into NM.  I came across a researcher who has identified the name of every Ornate conquistador, and their home towns in Spain.  This could make a difference to many researching their NM Spanish Colony family tree who might not know, or who do know but don't have sourcing.  How do I put the website/list out to the WikiTree Community?
+2 votes
Joseph Cordoba mentioned in the record of Domingo Romero and Cordoba.

Joseph Cordoba Male, his wife, Pascuala Martin

Domingo Romero and spouse, Cordoba event date s 30 Jan 1763 at Holy Cross, Santa Cruz, Santa Fe, New Mexico

Spouse's father is Joseph Cordoba and spouse's mother is Pascuala Martin

"New Mexico Marriages, 1751-1918," database,FamilySearch
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.1m points)
Frank, I'm pretty sure that's another index entry for the same marriage record you posted above.  One of them was misdated.  The year looks like, 'mil setecientos y sesenta y tres.'  1763.  The next entry is 15 Feb the same year, then an entry has a numeric '1774.'  Entries on the previous page clearly have the year 'setenta y dos.'  I think the event occurred in 1773, and the scribe got careless with his spelling.
Really Good pick up on the date changes on this... I will check the other primary resources for the date(s) we have tomorrow.  I cannot read or speak Spanish, so all I can do is copy an original document and use it as a source. I have the same problem with Latin when looking at some documents in my mother's Ireland Roman-Catholic genealogy. I really like 'collecting' original documents, I just can't read them sometimes.
+1 vote
Bartolome Romero Bustos, Mexican Baptisms, Christening Date 24 Apr 1657 at Tulancingo, Hidalgo, Mexico, Father's Name Antonio Romero, Mother's Name Maria De Bustos.

"Mexico bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.1m points)

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