Anne de Ros possible wife of Saire Sutton

+5 votes
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Wikitree currently has a profile for an Anne de Ros, shown as wife of Saire Sutton and daughter of Wiliam de Ros and Lucy FitzPiers. She is not listed among the children of William and Lucy in Douglas Richardson's works. The only source for her appears to be the Visitations of the County of Nottingham, which include a Sutton pedigree which shows "Serius Lord Sutton of Sutton in Holdernese 3d of that name" married to "Anne d. of Willm. Lord Rosse." No dates are given in the pedigree and there is nothing to identify William Lord Rosse clearly. The pedigree is in conflict with a later Sutton pedigree drawn up by Charles Frost in his 1827 "Notices relative to the early history of the town and port of Hull": this pedigree does not show any Serius, or Saere, Sutton married to a daughter of William de Ros/Rosse, or even to an Anne. So the evidence for Anne as daughter of William and Lucy looks thin to me. William de Ros's profile falls within, and is badged by, the Magna Carta Project and in these circumstances the Project's guidelines point fairly firmly towards detaching Anne as a child of William de Ros and Lucy FitzPiers. Does anyone have any further sourcing that is relevant?

I have included a research note about her in William de Ros's profile, and would envisage retaining it if she is detached, and adding a similar research note to Anne's own profile.

WikiTree profile: Anne de Sutton
in The Tree House by Michael Cayley G2G6 Mach 6 (62.6k points)
I have now detached Anne from William de Ros and Lucy FitzPiers and included research notes in her and their profiles. So it'll be easy to reattach her in the unlikely event some good evidence for doing so surfaces.

2 Answers

+7 votes
 
Best answer
I recently adopted Anne's profile as she was orphaned and is allegedly my 24th great-grandmother or something like that.  I also noticed the discrepancy and I and two other MC project members talked about it in another thread in April or early May.

Researching her and William are on my "to do list," currently at #7.

I'm in favor of disconnecting Anne and documenting her and William's profile citing the discrepancy and that the profiles have been severed.  If at a later time, evidence can be found to connect them, then they can be re-connected.
by SJ Baty G2G6 Pilot (767k points)
selected by Susan Laursen
+3 votes

Apparently there are at least 6 places called Sutton in Nottinghamshire.

One of them is Sutton-on-Trent, in which parish there were several manors, at least two of which were held by families called Sutton, who you might imagine were related, if you like, though of course they might not have been.

One of those families were the ancestors of the Suttons of Averham (Aram), Notts, and the Suttons of Dudley.

For the Dudley Suttons, this wasn't good enough.  Scurrilous rumours had been put about by their enemies, which were false, but not having a real male-line pedigree didn't help.

Riding to the rescue, appropriately attired, Edmund Knight, Chester Herald, later Norroy.  He knew there was an earlier (unrelated) Sutton family at Sutton-in-Holderness, aka Sutton-on-Hull, in Yorkshire, recorded in the charters of Meaux Abbey.

So he extracted a garbled sequence of Amands and Saires from the monastery records, stretched it back to 1066 at the top, attached the Notts and Dudley Suttons at the bottom, filled in all the missing wives with made-up names, and figured out how many fake hours he could bill for. 

https://archive.org/details/suttoninholderne00blasrich/page/21

by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (520k points)

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