Finalized Plan for the Zambia Regional Structure - Last Call [closed]

+9 votes

The Zambia Regional Structure has been subject of discussion and there have been no objections raised.  The proposal is now carried to the last call. 

Zambia Regional Structure

There is no Zambian Project. As a result, the Categorization Project offers the structure proposed and shall help keep all categories organized, simple, and easy to use. 

The status of this proposal can be tracked via the Wiki-Categories Trello Board.

WikiTree profile: Space:Zambia Regional Structure

Please may you exercise your vote for or against the proposal by voting up one or other of the answers below

closed with the note: Structure approved moving to implementation
in Policy and Style by Andrew Field G2G6 Mach 2 (20.4k points)
closed by Andrew Field

2 Answers

+7 votes

Yes! I agree with this structure.

by Andrew Field G2G6 Mach 2 (20.4k points)
This looks good to me, Andrew.  I can’t imagine a problem with duplicate names being a problem. Two Broken Hill, or Livingstone places are easily distinguished. The Zambian place names are pretty much unique. Thanks for doing this.
Thanks Robert...  Yes [[Category: Broken Hill, New South Wales]] in Australia will be distinguished from [[Category:Broken Hill, Central, Northern Rhodesia]].  Of course its now Kabwe.
+3 votes

No! I do not agree with this structure (please list your concerns as a comment).

by Andrew Field G2G6 Mach 2 (20.4k points)
Sorry but I'm not agree with it.

A categoriename is unique.

If there are two provinces in different countries with the same name e.g. Northern Province and they have both a city e.g Kingstown then the problem is there.

So I propose to use the full format,  "place, provincename, country". E.g. "Ndola, Copperbelt Province, Zambia".

The category structure is not sufficent since there can only be one category. e.g. "Ndola, Souhtern Province" In this case not a problem, I think, because this combination is maybe unique in the world. But provinces as Northern Province, Southern Province etc. good be names from provinces worldwide. So if there are places with the same name in two different provinces with the same name, in different countries the problem is there.

Joop, thanks for your comment.

The categorization project standard at this time is for <place, province/county/state>. In Zambia's case its province names are not unique and I can see that South Africa's current North Western Province may clash with  its namesake province in Zambia.   If you are able to identify any towns of both identical place name and province in both Zambia and South Africa then for that exception we might revert to <place, district, province> OR as you say <place, province, country>.  Zambian place names are relatively unique to Zambia and I doubt there will be too many duplicates to contend with.  I do not see this as a problem.

Hi, Andrew, in my opinion the standart rules of the Categorization project are wrong. If you make rules for a worldwide web then think worldwide. We in the Netherlands and also in Belgium have the same problems with our provinces e.g Limburg and Luxemburg. We made the proposal to use the format of three. "place, province, country". It's no problem for the categorization project but they want to document it, so our country is an exception on there, in my opinion, wrong rule. So I was wondering how other countries managed this problem what can happen and wheter they are aware about this.

Especialy countries with a colonial past have cities named after European cities, rulers and regios and you find them almost around the world. Also they use names with North, South etc. in the name.

So I see your proposal and I wanted to draw your attention to this problem. Of course its up to you in Zambia what to do.... smiley

Greetings Joop,

I am not sure that the Categorization Project standard rules are wrong.  I would suggest that they are adopting a 'minimalist' approach to place names and the more precise and shorter the category the better.  But there can be no duplications.  You are probably quite right to suggest the extension of the place name category with the country, where duplication is apparent.  All I am saying is that would be the exception to the rule.  You will note that I have already done that in the Zambia Regional Structure Proposal under historic places (by adding the old country name Northern Rhodesia).  Categorisation Project is fully aware of the problem and have a disambiguation process to handle place name clashes.  Joop, I think here on G2G Steven Harris very recently ventured a discussion on the very subject you raise...  Look it up and go comment there please.   My personal position is that duplication name places should be extended with either a district or country name, but this should be done only as an exception to the standard rule.

Hi Andrew, thanks for your answer

we already discussed it, but they are not convinced. I have the impression that they look only to the situation in the US and not outside. Its the same as the pre positions in lastnames of a lot European People (no field for preposition) or they call our country Netherlands (its... the Netherlands or Nederland). Last our Project Dutch Roots is renamed in Project Netherlands. Those kind of discussions have been held by different people several times in the past without result. They dont care.

Of course this beside but it illustrate the sitiation.

Location fields as Birth place and Death place give you, via autofill, the location also in tree parts and of course for a good reason.

For example there are at least three more Northern provinces, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Ireland. Because a category is unique and by change there are two places with the same name in one of these provinces, in wich category tree you put it?

I know these are rare situations, but quite possible, to prevent these potential problems its better to mention the country.

Besides that, its not much more work, is a category made then people can use the pictogram to add this category and the autofill give the suggestion for this category.

Thats why we use, for the Netherlands, the format with three or sometimes four parts. (two places with same name in same province) Yes I know, we Dutch in our little country are stubborn telling the rest of the world what to do.... smiley

Keep smiling...we do...greetings from the Netherlands. 

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